eball Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 22 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I have wondered why they don't have the draft prospects run the 40 in football gear. Would give a more realistic picture, I'd think. Dude, I think I say this at least once a year. Why do we get 40 times of guys in shorts that bears precisely NO relation to football speed? At least put them in a helmet and have them carry a football (if they are an offensive skill position player).
Dafan Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 23 hours ago, matter2003 said: Yeah Allen is legit fast...not just for a QB, for a player...he hit 20+ mph twice this year which is pretty damn fast...Tyrods top speed I could find in comparison was 18.8 mph I think 40 times should be recorded with full equipment on.
billsfan89 Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That may be. But it just highlights the point that sheer speed, and playing speed, are different concepts. Watching Allen's runs, I personally think he's either been soaking in some moves from watching film, or actually working a bit with Shady or someone. He's deceptive, is part of it. He'll be running, and a LB will choose his angle, and then Allen turns on the afterburner and the angle turns into a bad angle. Or vice versa - he'll be running full out and he'll slow a step. My favorite was this one play where he literally forced one defender into the path of another defender with his moves. Anyway, I don't think it's so much Allen's speed per se that is making him effective, as his athleticism, which allows him to make moves that make guys miss. Or just stiff-arm and run over them ? Craftiness is a big part of running that gets overlooked. But that being said I hope Allen slides more in 2019. I think Allen needs to play more carefully in general. Yes he is a bigger guy so his durability might be more than a RGIII or Lamar Jackson type. But Allen's running should only be a complement to his game as opposed to a central part of it. Allen has the passing tools to be a top 5 QB in the league (Granted he has a lot of improvements to make to get there) but if he gets hurt diving for a few yards that's far more detrimental to him.
MJS Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 Also, we know Josh Allen can run at about 20 MPH do to the advanced metrics. A 4.75 40 yard dash time works out to about 17 MPH, I think. Could just be an acceleration issue though.
billsfan89 Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, MJS said: Well, for comparison Kelvin Benjamin ran a 4.6 at the combine. Josh Allen seems faster than KB to me. Guess it could just be an effort issue there though. KB also suffered a massive knee injury his second year and had some more moderate level knee injuries in 2017. I think he lost speed from those injuries which destroyed his effectiveness overall. KB in his rookie year was just fast enough to get a little bit of separation and use his large from to catch passes. But take away even a little bit of his speed due to injury and he had zero speed relative for a NFL WR. 1
MJS Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: KB also suffered a massive knee injury his second year and had some more moderate level knee injuries in 2017. I think he lost speed from those injuries which destroyed his effectiveness overall. KB in his rookie year was just fast enough to get a little bit of separation and use his large from to catch passes. But take away even a little bit of his speed due to injury and he had zero speed relative for a NFL WR. Cam Newton's fastest mph run that I could find is 20.08 MPH. Russel Wilson is at 20.14. I think it is safe to assume that Allen is among the fastest QB's in the league. He ran a 20.60 against the Vikings. Did he run faster than that in any of the later games? Edited January 8, 2019 by MJS
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, MJS said: Well, for comparison Kelvin Benjamin ran a 4.6 at the combine. Josh Allen seems faster than KB to me. Guess it could just be an effort issue there though. I think there are a couple issues with KB. First, he ran a 4.6 at the combine probably after training specifically for it and getting into the best shape of his life. I don't think he kept it up. He looked like he would show up at training camp carrying a "weight vest" of body fat, which didn't help his speed. Second, his knee injuries, even if they didn't hurt his straight-line speed, probably hurt his shiftiness, his ability to evade or make guys miss or run crisp routes.
JESSEFEFFER Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 On 1/7/2019 at 3:37 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: I have wondered why they don't have the draft prospects run the 40 in football gear. Would give a more realistic picture, I'd think. Forget about the 40 time. I'd rather measure the top end speed. Having great or poor sprinter starts has little meaning in football.. No one does that in a game. Every one plays by shifting gears into a full out sprint. I'd want to know how fast a player moves in top gear. Put the equipment on and give them a ball.
CincyBillsFan Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 I've read scientific research papers with less stats and graphs then this stuff! I continue to be skeptical of the use of analytics to assess individual performance in a TEAM sport given the enormous number of variables that effect outcomes on every single play. IMO these folks are applying highly objective statistical techniques to track subjective performance. But with that being said it's interesting that when a different set of analytics are applied Allen's performance goes from being bad to top 10 in the league! That makes sense if you consider that ALL of these analyses are not very predictive of future outcome because they can't fully (mathematically) describe a players past performance. I'll continue to use my eye test, developed over 40+ years of watching way to much football, to determine where Allen is today. As for where he'll be tomorrow we'll just have to wait a few years and look at his top line passing/rushing numbers and his won/lost record to see where he came out. And while I'm confident those numbers will impress I don't believe there is any equation or set of data analysis today that will predict what they'll be. Then again maybe I'm just an old fart with bad eyes!
Big Turk Posted January 8, 2019 Author Posted January 8, 2019 3 hours ago, MJS said: Also, we know Josh Allen can run at about 20 MPH do to the advanced metrics. A 4.75 40 yard dash time works out to about 17 MPH, I think. Could just be an acceleration issue though. No, its more that if you dont know how to properly run a 40 yard dash you are gonna be .2-.3 seconds slower than you should be.
DuckyBoys Posted January 8, 2019 Posted January 8, 2019 Eyeball wise he looks like he runs 4.6 maybe a shade under. More importantly he's learning how to run and not get killed Kid is pretty elusive when he needs to be Some of those tds had nifty cutbacks a rb would be envious of
formerlyofCtown Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 8 hours ago, RyanC883 said: Also has the intangibles I love to see in a QB. Leader and gamer. Loves the game, loves winning. nice firm brtt smooth handsome face?
Stank_Nasty Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, matter2003 said: No, its more that if you dont know how to properly run a 40 yard dash you are gonna be .2-.3 seconds slower than you should be. Right. This isn’t some sort mystery here. The guy is a long strider with much more top end than acceleration. Guys at the combine aren’t even bringing their heads up from their drive phase until about 15-20 yds down the field. A nasty 40 is all in the get off. And most of those guys running 4.4’s and 4.3’s have extensive track work from the blocks since junior high. It’s all twitch out of the gates. Something Allen most likely didn’t spend a ton of time on. However it’s fairly evident his top speed rivals all but the fastest guys on a field. It’s an easy explanation. He’s got 5-10 yd running head start before he even hits the LOS and given that extra time to hit top speed he’s gonna be hard to run down and about as fast as anyone out there.
Big Turk Posted January 9, 2019 Author Posted January 9, 2019 3 hours ago, DuckyBoys said: Eyeball wise he looks like he runs 4.6 maybe a shade under. More importantly he's learning how to run and not get killed Kid is pretty elusive when he needs to be Some of those tds had nifty cutbacks a rb would be envious of I think he is faster than that...I'd say low 4.5's...dude leaves LBs who supposedly run 4.6's in the dust
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