Baltimore had 50 yards total offense going into the 4th quarter

[Alphadawg7]

Funny thing about that game...as bad as the first 3 quarters were for the Ravens offensively, they still had a chance to go down and shock the world.  So while I get why anyone would lend heavy criticism on Lamar after the game and the game ending fumble, I think it says a lot that he was able to help mount a comeback and give the team a chance to win late.  

 

Im not convinced he has staying power yet, he really does need to evolve as a passer I think to be a long term starter.  If they have to keep relying on him running 25 times a game, then I think he is going to be too easily schemed against.  But I am sure the Ravens are happy with what they accomplished with him overall this year and optimistic about his future, so much so that they will certainly move on from Flacco this offseason.  

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Funny thing about that game...as bad as the first 3 quarters were for the Ravens offensively, they still had a chance to go down and shock the world.  So while I get why anyone would lend heavy criticism on Lamar after the game and the game ending fumble, I think it says a lot that he was able to help mount a comeback and give the team a chance to win late.  

 

Im not convinced he has staying power yet, he really does need to evolve as a passer I think to be a long term starter.  If they have to keep relying on him running 25 times a game, then I think he is going to be too easily schemed against.  But I am sure the Ravens are happy with what they accomplished with him overall this year and optimistic about his future, so much so that they will certainly move on from Flacco this offseason.  

 

shock the world on Wild Card Weekend?

 

best of luck to all 4 visiting teams coming up, maybe 1 of you will give a decent performance out there

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

shock the world on Wild Card Weekend?

 

best of luck to all 4 visiting teams coming up, maybe 1 of you will give a decent performance out there

 

 

 

Really?  Ravens were losing 23-3 with 9 min to go in the game.  Most people weren't even paying attention much to the game anymore as it appeared to be all but over at that point lol.  

 

So yes, after struggling to move the ball the entire game, if the Ravens came back and scored 21 unanswered points to win 24-23 over the final 9 min, they would have shocked the world, especially with Lamar being the QB.  And after 14 unanswered points and a late 3 and out by Chargers, Ravens had the ball back with a chance to win.  Luckily for the Chargers they got a strip fumble on Lamar to prevent the Ravens the opportunity.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Really?  Ravens were losing 23-3 with 9 min to go in the game.  Most people weren't even paying attention much to the game anymore as it appeared to be all but over at that point lol.  

 

So yes, after struggling to move the ball the entire game, if the Ravens came back and scored 21 unanswered points to win 24-23 over the final 9 min, they would have shocked the world, especially with Lamar being the QB.  And after 14 unanswered points and a late 3 and out by Chargers, Ravens had the ball back with a chance to win.  Luckily for the Chargers they got a strip fumble on Lamar to prevent the Ravens the opportunity.  

 

It NEVER should have been that close, but for an absolute miracle of a pass that should have been an INT. It was the ultimate garbage-time performance.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 hours ago, Bills2ref said:

This game gave me flashbacks to a poor version of Tyrod Circa the playoff game against Jacksonville. It was painful to watch Lamar until the Chargers let up. 

-3 late in the third quarter I believe, it was pitiful. 

So was Harbaugh digging his heels in at the expense of possibly providing a veteran spark a/k/a Flacco off the bench? According to Peter King in his writeup of this game for FMIA, the Chargers played the same D personnel grouping of 7DB’s almost the whole game, but the Ravens just never adjusted, so it kept working. If I’m a Ravens fan, I’d be furious this morning that my coaching staff did exactly zilch to counter or provide a spark. 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

It NEVER should have been that close, but for an absolute miracle of a pass that should have been an INT. It was the ultimate garbage-time performance.

 

 

I agree...once again, this is why I said it would have shocked the world had he pulled it off.  

[NewEraBills]

Jackson is very limited at this point, but I think he can develop and learn the game.  I see the biggest issue with the Ravens offense yesterday is they thought that what they did last time was going to work this time.  SD changed up their defense and at times ran with 7 defensive backs, using Safeties at Linebacker.  To me, this is where guys like Josh McDaniel's shines and old guys like Marty Morniweig keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.  If they were using that many defensive backs and had some of them playing linebacker, I had to ask, why didn't you actually make the play linebacker then.  The same way teams confused Edmunds in the run game is exactly what Baltimore should have adjusted too since those DB's are not used to playing linebacker and understanding all the keys that a linebacker has to understand and know.  They didn't test those guys intellect at the linebacker position.  They just lined up and ran the same option plays they ran in the previous game and SD killed it.  Use Jet motion, run misdirections and traps; run HB screens to get big bodied linemen on defensive backs.  They did none of that and stuck with exactly what they did in the first game.

Edited January 7, 2019 by NewEraBills

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I agree...once again, this is why I said it would have shocked the world had he pulled it off.  

OK, apologies. I must have misunderstood.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

46 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I like that being able to take off and run is a part of both Lamar and Allen's game, but defenses will find ways to hem them into the pocket to force throws.

 

Not only did Belichick do that to Josh, but he also took away the deep stuff forcing him into a game of pre-snap reads to find the open options underneath. Considering how good Belichick is at disguising coverages and confusing even veteran QB's, it was a tall order to think that Josh would be able to have a lot of success against that.

 

Mechanics aside, I do think as long as Josh knows where he can go with the ball, he can get it there from the pocket more often than not, but that will take time for him to better read what defenses are giving him.

 

All the above being said, I don't mind tipping my virtual hat to Lamar for his accomplishments this year.

The OL & terrible receivers in addition to no RB's (McCoy barely in the game) and on the road didn't help.

[WideNine]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The OL & terrible receivers in addition to no RB's (McCoy barely in the game) and on the road didn't help.

 

Have to admit it made game planning against us a lot easier...especially not having to worry too much about our run game.

 

Our defense kept getting run over too, which extended NE drives and limited the offensive opportunities.

 

Our Special Teams were a joke too.

 

I am not laying all the blame for the NE loss on Allen, it was a team loss. I was only drawing a comparison on how (as the Chargers did to Lamar) the NE defense forced Allen to throw from the pocket and took away the deep stuff (for the most part) forcing a rookie into making the right pre-snap reads - which is difficult in general and in particular against NE with their many disguised looks.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

But don't forget that Lamar is still better than Josh Allen because college completion pct.

 

I thought Lamar Jackson was also predicted to be a bust, because college completion pct <60%?

57% over 3 years in Louisville.  Known bust.

 

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

He had -2 passing yards for the game in the 3rd quarter.  He was definitely Peterman-bad.

 

He was bad, but no way was he Peterman-bad.  Only 5 sacks for 55 yards and 3 INTs, in the whole game to boot. ?

 

The most interesting thing about that game was the way the Chargers chose to defend Lamar. 

It wouldn't surprise me if teams try that against the Bills, so I hope Daboll will watch that 3-4x and take notes.

 

One difference is, if they try to stop JA running with a bunch of DBs, wouldn't shock me if he'd take them along for the run.

 

21 minutes ago, WideNine said:

Have to admit it made game planning against us a lot easier...especially not having to worry too much about our run game.

Our defense kept getting run over too, which extended NE drives and limited the offensive opportunities.

Our Special Teams were a joke too.

 

I am not laying all the blame for the NE loss on Allen, it was a team loss. I was only drawing a comparison on how (as the Chargers did to Lamar) the NE defense forced Allen to throw from the pocket and took away the deep stuff (for the most part) forcing a rookie into making the right pre-snap reads - which is difficult in general and in particular against NE with their many disguised looks.

 

Yes, this too.  The blueprint is out and it's "up to" Daboll to figure out a counter and "up to" Allen to put in the work in the film room and VR (do the Bills use VR?)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

44 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

It NEVER should have been that close, but for an absolute miracle of a pass that should have been an INT. It was the ultimate garbage-time performance.

 

This is my problem with the whole concept of garbage time.  It's all grins and giggles until the goose gets cooked.

 

All I can say is I hope the Chargers take a memo and learn from this, because if they take their foot off the gas like that against NE, they will be the goose and the carving will commence.

 

Hate that "Prevent" D.  It's the playoffs.  Never let up.  Never never never.

[billspro]

3 hours ago, racketmaster said:

Lamar should be a decent qb option for 3-4 years because of his dynamic running ability (best I’ve ever seen from a qb). But he is a very limited passer and I don’t see him having much success beyond the first few years. 

Stage 1: Jackson has great initial success as defenses have never seen a quarterback with such dynamic running ability. At the outset, teams are taken off guard. 

1. Stage 2: Defenses will (as was the case this week) develop a game plan to defend him. Defensive coordinators always come up with a plan to limit a player now it will be up to Jackson to come up with a counter. Even though he will be limited by schemes, he is still a threat and not all defenses will be equipped or disciplined enough to stop him. If Baltimore continues to play great defense, they can still be a hard team to deal with. The player will have success against some teams and be limited by others who are equipped and disciplined enough.  

Stage 3: Running 25 times a game will begin to take its toll on his body. It happens to all players and once he starts to get banged up there will be pressure to change his style of play to become more of a pocket passer (the pressure to change will come from team executives, coaches, fans, family or Jackson himself). Once the player begins to see the expiration date on continuing to act as a runner the enivitable process toward becoming a pocket passsr begins. 

Stage 4: This is where the player typically takes a step back because they are no longer running as much and they are trying to play the position differently. Jackson’s passing skills seem rudimentary. If we were to force all qbs to stand in the pocket and outlaw any running or escaping the pocket, he would be near the bottom as far as pure pocket passing. Fortunately, for Jackson and players with similar skill sets he will still have escapabilty and make plays off scrambles even though he is not running many if at all designed runs. 

Stage 5 is Crossroads: player either develops as a passer and continues on with NFL career or player struggles with pocket passing and reverts back to trying to be more of a runner in order to maximize their value to the team. This likely won’t end well because player is usually less dynamic and injuries become more likely. Once injuries or poor play begin to be the norm the team decides to move on to a different option. 

 

That is usually how it goes with running QBs. Wouldn’t be surprised if that is how Jackson’s career went.

[nucci]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=401038955

 

Not fair to blame Lamar, but they were atrocious (and can see how to defend Lamar Jackson).  

 

Watching Lamar it is apparent he needs a lot of work throwing the ball and will be interesting to see if he improves there.  Right now I think his mechanics and skill is way behind JA. 

 

All of a sudden getting flashbacks to Rob Johnson vs. Tennessee.....

 

 

why not? He was awful

[Billsfan1972]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought Lamar Jackson was also predicted to be a bust, because college completion pct <60%?

57% over 3 years in Louisville.  Known bust.

 

 

He was bad, but no way was he Peterman-bad.  Only 5 sacks for 55 yards and 3 INTs, in the whole game to boot. ?

 

The most interesting thing about that game was the way the Chargers chose to defend Lamar. 

It wouldn't surprise me if teams try that against the Bills, so I hope Daboll will watch that 3-4x and take notes.

 

One difference is, if they try to stop JA running with a bunch of DBs, wouldn't shock me if he'd take them along for the run.

 

 

Yes, this too.  The blueprint is out and it's "up to" Daboll to figure out a counter and "up to" Allen to put in the work in the film room and VR (do the Bills use VR?)

Sorry lousy receivers, not catching the ball, drops, running first & second downs, setting up a third & 8, fumbling at the 5........  There was a lot that went wrong that game.  

 

Very simply the Bills need to draft & sign players (F's) that can help JA.  Very few designed running plays or options, which is in stark contrast to Baltimore.

[Billsfan1972]

Interesting note.  Flacco averaged 274/gm before his injury.  Lamar played with the lead in every game and never trailed by more then one score.  Also 204 yards was his most passing yard (included a 68 yard td on a 25 yard pass).

[MJS]

2 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

The wonderlic was alarmingly low (13).  Like did he study for it at all?  

 

He just doesn't sound like a polished smart starting QB.  If he succeeds i think it will be a lot with his legs.  Most of his yardage in college was actually on scrambles not designed runs, so we'll see what they create around him in 2019.

 

His pro day was also horrific. Plus he had all that weird stuff with teams not being able to contact him and his mom as his agent. I wanted nothing to do with him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, nucci said:

why not? He was awful

 

IMO, Chargers-Ravens was a game of coaching adjustments.

 

Chargers came out with a good defensive game plan to smother the Raven's relatively one-dimensional O

Ravens came out with a good defensive game plan to slow and severely hamper the Chargers more multi-dimensional O and much better QB enough to throttle them in the red zone

 

Chargers partially adjusted enough to move the ball into FG range and made effective adjustments at the half

Ravens didn't really adjust all game - they took advantage of a couple defensive lapses and of the Chargers backing off the throttle in the 4th Q

 

Now whether there theoretically exists a trick or 3 up the Ravens sleeve that could have worked for Lamar after the half, I can't tell you

But if Belichick*** were the Ravens coach I wouldn't bet the rent money against it either.

 

[Billsfan1972]

Also noted that with Lamar, Baltimore seemed to employ a Buffalo Bills scheme whereby they expected every game to be close and rely on the defense.

 

Hate that style of football.

[BADOLBILZ]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

IMO, Chargers-Ravens was a game of coaching adjustments.

 

Chargers came out with a good defensive game plan to smother the Raven's relatively one-dimensional O

Ravens came out with a good defensive game plan to slow and severely hamper the Chargers more multi-dimensional O and much better QB enough to throttle them in the red zone

 

Chargers partially adjusted enough to move the ball into FG range and made effective adjustments at the half

Ravens didn't really adjust all game - they took advantage of a couple defensive lapses and of the Chargers backing off the throttle in the 4th Q

 

Now whether there theoretically exists a trick or 3 up the Ravens sleeve that could have worked for Lamar after the half, I can't tell you

But if Belichick*** were the Ravens coach I wouldn't bet the rent money against it either.

 

 

 

If the Ravens had seen it coming they should have been able to pound the ball at that undersized Chargers defense..........but they seemed confused and played right into the Chargers scheme.

 

Lynn said in the postgame that he "used to run that offense"(in Buffalo)  and had seen how defenses adjusted to it and that was part of their gameplan.

 

Lynn is a really good coach.........if he beats Belichick in NE.......and I think he will......he will start getting real props.  

 

Lynn is 22-5 in his last 27 games.

 

Then the AFC championship matchup would either be the coaches we didn't choose(Lynn and Reich) or the coach we let go(Lynn) versus the QB we could have had but traded(Mahomes).

 

Doesn't mean McD and Allen can't get it done but it does mean those guys COULD get it done.

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by BADOLBILZ