Baltimore had 50 yards total offense going into the 4th quarter

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Rob Johnson ran out of the endzone for a safety in a playoff game...

 

and despite that, STILL left the field with a lead.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Last night was what people mean when they say "teams will figure it out in year two" 

 

The same is not true of Allen (as much).  Allen's runs are on scrambles.  They aren't a scheme trick to be figured out.  On top of that, he is a much better passer.  In five years, Jackson will be a complete after thought (I think, that is as strong a prediction as I've ever made)

This is a very good point.  I predict that 5 years from now Allen will still occasionally take off and run for 25 yards when the opportunity presents itself.  His elite RB level vision (those cuts at speed are intuitive), acceleration and size will make him very dangerous when he scrambles out of a broken pocket. 

 

Consider Detroit & NE, the 2 teams that sold out to keep Allen from breaking any long running plays.  Their schemes did work but Detroit still lost the game and Allen & his receivers came within inches of catching passes that would have added 2 - 3 more TD's to make the Bills/NE game a lot more interesting.  As Allen improves his passing game AND the Bills elevate his current cast of skill players with another TE & WR, the scheme that NE & Detroit used will blow up in their face as given time in the pocket Allen will carve them up through the air.  And I'm not talking short check down passes - I'm talking about 20 yard laser beams down the field.  

 

With Jackson, the SD scheme will work even better next year as defensive coordinators fine tune it.  This spells trouble for the Ravens.  Jackson will have to improve his passing game from the pocket a LOT more then Allen will need to in order to break what defenses are going to try to do to him.

Edited January 7, 2019 by CincyBillsFan

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

Jackson was one guy I definitely didn't want in the draft. Seemed like Tyrod Taylor 2.0 to me.

 

Of course, I also didn't want Josh Allen, so what do I know?

 

The wonderlic was alarmingly low (13).  Like did he study for it at all?  

 

He just doesn't sound like a polished smart starting QB.  If he succeeds i think it will be a lot with his legs.  Most of his yardage in college was actually on scrambles not designed runs, so we'll see what they create around him in 2019.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

The wonderlic was alarmingly low (13).  Like did he study for it at all?  

 

He just doesn't sound like a polished smart starting QB.  If he succeeds i think it will be a lot with his legs.  Most of his yardage in college was actually on scrambles not designed runs, so we'll see what they create around him in 2019.

 

He won't succeed.  No one since 2000 has succeeded at QB with a Wonderlic score below 16.  Zero.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

He won't succeed.  No one since 2000 has succeeded at QB with a Wonderlic score below 16.  Zero.

 

13 is like mentally-challenged level is it not?

 

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

He won't succeed.  No one since 2000 has succeeded at QB with a Wonderlic score below 16.  Zero.

 

don't you get an 18 if you sat there and chewed gum quietly the whole time

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=401038955

 

Not fair to blame Lamar, but they were atrocious (and can see how to defend Lamar Jackson).  

 

Watching Lamar it is apparent he needs a lot of work throwing the ball and will be interesting to see if he improves there.  Right now I think his mechanics and skill is way behind JA. 

 

All of a sudden getting flashbacks to Rob Johnson vs. Tennessee.....

 

 

Yes, we can blame LJ and we can blame the entire coaching staff for not playing Flacco.  

 

[row_33]

 

and filled in 2 answers

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Flacco should have started the game.  Harbaugh should have realized that Jackson was not his best chance to win the game.  It was terrible.  And now he's stuck with Jackson.  He deserves it and I hope Flacco goes somewhere and kicks ass.

 

again this ^ 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

What I wanna know is, where are all the geniuses around here who said Jackson looks better than Allen?

 

They need some accountability.

 

That guy looked REALLY bad. Like worse than Peterman or EJ Manuel bad.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

What I wanna know is, where are all the geniuses around here who said Jackson looks better than Allen?

 

They need some accountability.

 

That guy looked REALLY bad. Like worse than Peterman or EJ Manuel bad.

 

My guess

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

in hiding .....   

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

13 is like mentally-challenged level is it not?

 

 

5 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

don't you get an 18 if you sat there and chewed gum quietly the whole time

 

 

I just watched his post game presser from yesterday.  I've watched/listened to others.  He sounds like he's working with a 3rd grade education.

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, racketmaster said:

Lamar should be a decent qb option for 3-4 years because of his dynamic running ability (best I’ve ever seen from a qb). But he is a very limited passer and I don’t see him having much success beyond the first few years. 

Stage 1: Jackson has great initial success as defenses have never seen a quarterback with such dynamic running ability. At the outset, teams are taken off guard. 

Stage 2: Defenses will (as was the case this week) develop a game plan to defend him. Defensive coordinators always come up with a plan to limit a player now it will be up to Jackson to come up with a counter. Even though he will be limited by schemes, he is still a threat and not all defenses will be equipped or disciplined enough to stop him. If Baltimore continues to play great defense, they can still be a hard team to deal with. The player will have success against some teams and be limited by others who are equipped and disciplined enough.  

Stage 3: Running 25 times a game will begin to take its toll on his body. It happens to all players and once he starts to get banged up there will be pressure to change his style of play to become more of a pocket passer (the pressure to change will come from team executives, coaches, fans, family or Jackson himself). Once the player begins to see the expiration date on continuing to act as a runner the enivitable process toward becoming a pocket passsr begins. 

Stage 4: This is where the player typically takes a step back because they are no longer running as much and they are trying to play the position differently. Jackson’s passing skills seem rudimentary. If we were to force all qbs to stand in the pocket and outlaw any running or escaping the pocket, he would be near the bottom as far as pure pocket passing. Fortunately, for Jackson and players with similar skill sets he will still have escapabilty and make plays off scrambles even though he is not running many if at all designed runs. 

Stage 5 is Crossroads: player either develops as a passer and continues on with NFL career or player struggles with pocket passing and reverts back to trying to be more of a runner in order to maximize their value to the team. This likely won’t end well because player is usually less dynamic and injuries become more likely. Once injuries or poor play begin to be the norm the team decides to move on to a different option. 

 

Very well put.

However (just like with Josh Allen), you need to give the guy time to develop his passing skills.  He's still a rookie. 

 

Being an athletic/mobile QB does not mean a guy should be completely written off.

Fran Tarkenton and Steve Young were some of the best running QBs ever, and both are in the Hall of Fame.  Randall Cunningham and Michael Vick made really strong NFL careers with heavy reliance on their legs.  Currently you have guys like Cam Newton and Russell Wilson succeeding as dual threats.

 

Bottom line, running needs to be a complementary tool for a QB.  Not his primary method of attack.

I will say that (so far), Lamar Jackson is definitely relying on his running first and his passing second.  Allen is trying to be a QB first, and the rushing yards are coming on scrambles where he can't find anyone open.  If this trend continues, Allen will ultimately be the better QB.

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

I just watched his post game presser from yesterday.  I've watched/listened to others.  He sounds like he's working with a 3rd grade education.

 

And i know just getting into college was a major struggle for him and his family.  They spent a lot of time with tutors etc to get his grades up.  

[Gugny]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

And i know just getting into college was a major struggle for him and his family.  They spent a lot of time with tutors etc to get his grades up.  

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this.  There's no way that dude legitimately gets into any college.

[row_33]

15 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

I just watched his post game presser from yesterday.  I've watched/listened to others.  He sounds like he's working with a 3rd grade education.

 

20 years ago I gave up watching anything involving a game that wasn't the direct action on the field/ice/court

 

it's too sad listening to the panel or the players try to speak

 

 

[Big Gun]

Jackson will sooner than later go by way of RG3 and other run first one read QBs. That luster of a shiny new toy is already losing its shine.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

Lamar will need to throw in the pocket consistently if he wants to be a good franchise QB.

 

There is way too much running/scrambling going on

 

I like that being able to take off and run is a part of both Lamar and Allen's game, but defenses will find ways to hem them into the pocket to force throws.

 

Not only did Belichick do that to Josh, but he also took away the deep stuff forcing him into a game of pre-snap reads to find the open options underneath. Considering how good Belichick is at disguising coverages and confusing even veteran QB's, it was a tall order to think that Josh would be able to have a lot of success against that.

 

Mechanics aside, I do think as long as Josh knows where he can go with the ball, he can get it there from the pocket more often than not, but that will take time for him to better read what defenses are giving him.

 

All the above being said, I don't mind tipping my virtual hat to Lamar for his accomplishments this year.

[PatsFanNH]

My take is this:

 

1. Jackson is exactly who I thought he was. A RB playing QB  right now.  There is a reason many teams wanted him try be a RB or WR instead of a QB.  He was worse in college than Allen, and when faced with any team with good D in college he failed miserably. 

 

2. The Chargers almost choked that game away. They give ANY of the remaining 3 Qb’s 55 seconds to score a TD from their own 40 and they will. (Mahomes, Brady,Luck) the old Chargers showed up in the 4th.

 

3. Harbaugh — never tried change anything up. He ran the same offensive game plan stubbornly until the fourth quarter when they launched deep balls. 

 

4. While I am no Jackson fan, I did like his maturity in taking blame for his bad performance and really keeping them from having any chance win the game. (Kid needs hold the ball higher when he is in the pocket)

 

like insaid ANYONE thinks Jackson is better than Allen really didn’t pay attention even before the draft. One is raw with high potential, the other most teams wanted him to play a different position.

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

But in the end they had 194 passing with 2 TD's.  

 

As a Bills fan, I can relate.  Buffalo had 0 first downs in the first half at Baltimore, numerous games with less than 100 yards passing.