Game of Thrones - And Now Our Watch Has Ended!

[PIZ]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

I don't want to see Dinklage little Peter 

 

Where's the spit out my lunch emoji!!!!

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

I'm a writer by trade, and a production nerd by hobby -- so my thoughts on the episode/series are tempered by those elements. Still, parts of last night's penultimate episode were brilliantly done: 

 

* the cinematography was their best to date,

* the Arya survivor scenes were some of the best war trauma that's ever been done on TV in my opinion,

* the editing between the Cleaganebowl and Arya getting pounded by falling debris was top notch.

 

I have major complaints about other areas of the episode, but they mainly are tied to the same, central issue: the further the writers have gotten from the source material, the more their own shortcomings as writers have been displayed. D&D got the full briefing (and outlines) from GRRM about where his saga was headed, and over the past two seasons there has been a rush to hit plot points at the expense of the character development.  What makes the books great and made the show what it was were these character moments, development, and turns. For the sake of time, much of those moments were tossed aside in favor of spectacle. Some of that is the fault of D&D, most is the result of the nature of the production itself. Some of this is just the nature of the beast, managing the biggest show in history and the deadlines/expectations/budgetary issues that come with it all played a role in these beats being missed imo. We have a shortened season to begin with, and we had 4 episodes totaling close to 5 hours, to build to Dany's turn but 3.5 of those hours were spent on battle/epic visuals rather than the necessary character development to get Dany there.

 

Still, that foreshadowing is and was there for her in the show (more so in the books). Dany had every good angel on her shoulder ripped from her over the last several seasons: Barristan The Bold, Jorah, Missandei, two of her children, and finally Jon. We've also seen her rage flare up repeatedly over the seasons, though it had always been tempered by her better angles. Now, with them gone, and her feeling alone/isolated on a continent that is supposed to be home but treats her as a foreigner, she went full Targaryen. If Martin ever finishes the books, I'm guessing it'll work much better because he'll have the leather between those beats to make it feel earned rather than rushed. 

 

From a literary/TV perspective, what I found really strong was that Dany's rage was in every scene even though she was not. Literally every scene we saw her fire and wrath motivating or complicating every decision made in the midst of the battle. I thought the way they handled that was compelling and well done. 

 

But problems remain -- and they all come down to the same cause I believe: the whole ending has been rushed. That can't be helped when a show gets this massive -- but D&D could have done more to make this work. They're good writers, but not great. That's what's become more and more clear for me the further they've gotten away from the source material and Martin's words/dialogue/characters.   

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

I'm a writer by trade, and a production nerd by hobby -- so my thoughts on the episode/series are tempered by those elements. Still, parts of last night's penultimate episode were brilliantly done: 

 

* the cinematography was their best to date,

* the Arya survivor scenes were some of the best war trauma that's ever been done on TV in my opinion,

* the editing between the Cleaganebowl and Arya getting pounded by falling debris was top notch.

 

I have major complaints about other areas of the episode, but they mainly are tied to the same, central issue: the further the writers have gotten from the source material, the more their own shortcomings as writers have been displayed. D&D got the full briefing (and outlines) from GRRM about where his saga was headed, and over the past two seasons there has been a rush to hit plot points at the expense of the character development.  What makes the books great and made the show what it was were these character moments, development, and turns. For the sake of time, much of those moments were tossed aside in favor of spectacle. Some of that is the fault of D&D, most is the result of the nature of the production itself. Some of this is just the nature of the beast, managing the biggest show in history and the deadlines/expectations/budgetary issues that come with it all played a role in these beats being missed imo. We have a shortened season to begin with, and we had 4 episodes totaling close to 5 hours, to build to Dany's turn but 3.5 of those hours were spent on battle/epic visuals rather than the necessary character development to get Dany there.

 

Still, that foreshadowing is and was there for her in the show (more so in the books). Dany had every good angel on her shoulder ripped from her over the last several seasons: Barristan The Bold, Jorah, Missandei, two of her children, and finally Jon. We've also seen her rage flare up repeatedly over the seasons, though it had always been tempered by her better angles. Now, with them gone, and her feeling alone/isolated on a continent that is supposed to be home but treats her as a foreigner, she went full Targaryen. If Martin ever finishes the books, I'm guessing it'll work much better because he'll have the leather between those beats to make it feel earned rather than rushed. 

 

From a literary/TV perspective, what I found really strong was that Dany's rage was in every scene even though she was not. Literally every scene we saw her fire and wrath motivating or complicating every decision made in the midst of the battle. I thought the way they handled that was compelling and well done. 

 

But problems remain -- and they all come down to the same cause I believe: the whole ending has been rushed. That can't be helped when a show gets this massive -- but D&D could have done more to make this work. They're good writers, but not great. That's what's become more and more clear for me the further they've gotten away from the source material and Martin's words/dialogue/characters.   

 

I said almost the exact same thing after watching this latest episode last night. They still have a top-of-the-line HBO budget, so it's going to look great, but without the original story to draw from it's not nearly as compelling imo.

[DC Tom]

39 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

 

Last week Euron and his fleet and the scorpions matched up perfectly with Dany and her dragons.  She was the one who looked inept riding into battle.  This week, the opposite.  Why?

 

 

6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

But problems remain -- and they all come down to the same cause I believe: the whole ending has been rushed. That can't be helped when a show gets this massive -- but D&D could have done more to make this work. They're good writers, but not great. That's what's become more and more clear for me the further they've gotten away from the source material and Martin's words/dialogue/characters.   

 

The above being a prime example.  Why did Dany look inept flying along last week?  Because she was ambushed by Euron, taken completely by surprise, because Euron had forewarning from Varys.  Which was why Varys was executed.  

 

But it was so poorly written, it was almost impossible to see.  Four seasons ago, that sort of intrigue would have consumed half a season of plot and character development.  This season, a scene of dialog between Tyrion and Varys, an ambiguous scene of dialog between Tyrion and Dany, and a quick shot of a handwritten note by Varys.  Rushed and incomplete.  

 

Same with Dany's turn to the dark side.  Yes, it's been foreshadowed, and yes, to fans of the show the reasons are pretty clear (loss of many of her trusted advisors, lack of trust in the others).  But foreshadowing is not character development, and it deserved far more time and better writing than it's been given.

 

17 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

* the Arya survivor scenes were some of the best war trauma that's ever been done on TV in my opinion,

 

 

Or film.  Obviously I've never seen a medieval siege, and obviously they never included dragons...but from all I've read about them, that's as close as you'll ever see to what the sacking of a walled city was like.  And Masie Williams sold the shell-shock very well.  

 

And the cinematography on Cleganebowl was awesome.  The framing of their initial standoff, with a backdrop of a crumbled Red Keep and a streak of flame across the sky, was the perfect apocalyptic setting for it, and a nice juxtaposition of the elemental nature of the characters (the Hound = fire, the Mountain = stone).

[GoBills808]

From Twitter: apparently a bunch of people who named their daughter either Daenerys or Khaleesi in the last odd-decade are freaking out?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

From Twitter: apparently a bunch of people who named their daughter either Daenerys or Khaleesi in the last odd-decade are freaking out?

 

Idiots get what they deserve.  

[GoBills808]

And also I can't help feeling everyone's acting has devolved from well-directed earnestness to distractingly-bad melodramatic this season...it's like Dinklage got a lobotomy or something. I mean for the one guy I thought we could count on for a nuanced performance, his acting while he was setting his brother free to somehow rescue Cersei was laughably bad.

[Turk71]

Danys' turn wasn't very believable for me, she would've gone right for Cersei in the Red Keep than massacre a bunch of people in the streets imo.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

She lost one of her "children" because she went north of the wall.  

She lost another of her "children" because she thought Dragonstone was "safe" and didn't do any high altitude recon on approach. 

 

 

Dany looked awful "ill" in the opening scene.

 

With Great Risk Comes Great Reward  -  Was Vary's trying to slowly poison her?  

Edited May 13, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[Heitz]

21 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Danys' turn wasn't very believable for me, she would've gone right for Cersei in the Red Keep than massacre a bunch of people in the streets imo.

 

Just like in the previous episode when everyone is standing outside of King's Landing with about 10,000 arrows pointed at them and Cersei lets them just *walk away*!?  Doubt it...

Edited May 13, 2019 by Heitz

[Reed83HOF]

17 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

Danys' turn wasn't very believable for me, she would've gone right for Cersei in the Red Keep than massacre a bunch of people in the streets imo.

It wasn't necessarily a turn, she has always had bad impulses and the people who helped keep them in check either turned on her or are no longer there. She gave into her true impulses and who she always said she is:

 

“I am the blood of the dragon. I must be strong. I must have fire in my eyes when I face them, not tears.” 

 

"When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who wronged me! We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground!"

 

"I will take what is mine with fire and blood."

7 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

She lost one of her "children" because she went north of the wall.  

She lost another of her "children" because she thought Dragonstone was "safe" and didn't do any high altitude recon on approach. 

 

 

Dany looked awful "ill" in the opening scene.

 

With Great Risk Comes Great Reward  -  Was Vary's trying to slowly poison her?  

 

I believe that is who the little girl was, she worked in the kitchen after all. 

[BeginnersMind]

3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

It wasn't necessarily a turn, she has always had bad impulses and the people who helped keep them in check either turned on her or are no longer there. She gave into her true impulses and who she always said she is:

 

“I am the blood of the dragon. I must be strong. I must have fire in my eyes when I face them, not tears.” 

 

"When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who wronged me! We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground!"

 

"I will take what is mine with fire and blood."

 

I believe that is who the little girl was, she worked in the kitchen after all. 

 

No one was left to check her instincts but I agree. Hard to go from breaker of chains and savior of children to kill the babies in a snap. The books, if they ever come, will probably play it out better. Same with the conversion of Sansa from sniveling torture victim to shrewd queen of the north. 

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

No one was left to check her instincts but I agree. Hard to go from breaker of chains and savior of children to kill the babies in a snap. The books, if they ever come, will probably play it out better. Same with the conversion of Sansa from sniveling torture victim to shrewd queen of the north. 

LOL I just saw this in reddit: 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

LOL I just saw this in reddit: 

 

 

 

 

Was that meant to be a spoiler? 

If so  -  Take the S out of spoilers 

 

 

11 to 14 seconds

Where do all of these soldiers come from?  

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Was that meant to be a spoiler? 

If so  -  Take the S out of spoilers 

 

 

11 to 14 seconds

Where do all of these soldiers come from?  

 

LOL - that is what the title of the Reddit thread is (not mine). No it really isn't a spoiler I think they put it there to flag it for the people who haven't watched the episode yet 

[frostbitmic]

4 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

I still feel that seasons 7&8 are moving way too fast, that being said-  last nights was so much better than the last 2; it was really enjoyable & well done. I get the Jamie and Cersai ending and it makes sense that their world is crumbling down on them - I still wanted to see her stabbed or throat slit or whatnot. 

 

 

Agreed ... They have enough story left to tell that a few more episodes would be preferred over one more Sunday night ... The GOT parties this weekend will be HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE..... Biggest TV audience ever ?

[Reed83HOF]

7 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Agreed ... They have enough story left to tell that a few more episodes would be preferred over one more Sunday night ... The GOT parties this weekend will be HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE..... Biggest TV audience ever ?

And I'm going to a concert, so I will have to watch it at midnight when I get back home!

[Reed83HOF]

http://collider.com/george-rr-martin-has-finished-books-6-and-7-song-of-ice-and-fire-game-of-thrones/

[Deranged Rhino]

11 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

http://collider.com/george-rr-martin-has-finished-books-6-and-7-song-of-ice-and-fire-game-of-thrones/

 

I'll be stunned if that's accurate. Stunned. 

 

First, Martin would have to convince the publisher to hold off on millions of dollars by holding the book(s). 

Second, Martin would have to have had the time to finish them (he's been doing everything but writing those books with multiple shows in development). 

 

But stranger things have happened. 

[K-9]

29 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Agreed ... They have enough story left to tell that a few more episodes would be preferred over one more Sunday night ... The GOT parties this weekend will be HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE..... Biggest TV audience ever ?

Won’t even come close.