Deranged Rhino Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 Okay, I had to watch on delay but I've got thoughts and opinions... first: 2 hours ago, DC Tom said: Even though I knew it was coming, it took me by surprise. That was extremely well-shot. And a nice call-back to her fight scene with Brienne, switching hands with the dagger. Here's something I found cool while watching that scene unfold: that move she did with the dagger, which we saw her do in her (great) training scene with Brienne previously, was something they improvised on set. Maisie Williams got real good with the dagger because she had time to kill between set ups, so much so the fight choreographer saw her do that little flip to her other hand and thought it would be cool to put into the scene. The showrunners (who were on set -- they're not always because it shoots so spread out) were like, "hell yeah". That's the kind of awesome stuff that happens during shooting, you find little wrinkles which add to it. I got chills imagining how Weiss and Benioff and the writers must have felt when they came up with that solution while breaking the last season -- good stuff. What I'm curious about is if Martin will use it in the book (obviously it's much more visual, so I'm guessing not -- but if he does it's interesting that something from the show influences the books -- but again, I'm a nerd so that ***** interests me). 2 hours ago, DC Tom said: I disagree. It was like a 90-minute of the worst kind of Walking Dead episode. Buncha people hacking away at ice zombies. There was no real drama or tension to it, just spectacle. This is mainly where I landed -- because the dragon scenes were handled so (imo) clumsily -- though I think I enjoyed it more overall. Parts of it were great: * The Dothraki scene was fantastic in its creepiness as they got snuffed out (and cost efficient production wise) * The ending was really well done as you laid out above, from a story and production standpoint. * The Crypt scene with Sansa and Tyrion and that evolution was fun. But 90% of what makes this show great is the banter/interplay between the characters. We went almost 20 min I think in the start before anyone had a conversation... that was a chore for me. 2 hours ago, DC Tom said: Did Arya kill the Night King with Littlefinger's dagger that was used in the assassination attempt against Bran in Season 1? Yup -- which is poetic and perfect for all the reasons @Doc Brown others have stated above. Bran knew when he gave it to Arya what she'd use it for, but he couldn't tell anyone without altering the future/past. The dagger that started the War of the Five Kings is the same that ended the Great War. ***** great stuff there. 2 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: So, it was a good episode, tons of action and such but it fell flat. Think of The Force Awakens and Snoke, the whole movie he is like this huge badass. The Last Jedi he is pulling the strings and then unceremoniously killed like an unnamed storm trooper. No nothing. That's how I feel now. What you can kill the leader of the army of the dead and then spend 3 damn episodes on Cersi? Meh, such a wasted opportunity. Why are people behind epic shows like this and movies afraid the make big choices that could create something really special and lasting and then fall flat like that I hear you, but I disagree because the stakes have reversed now. What makes the last three episodes so great (to me, of course, it's all subjective) is the won tonight but lost (almost) every edge they had. They lost 90% of their army, all the Dothraki, most of the Unsullied, and almost all the Free Folk/Northerners. Meanwhile Cersei has been reinforced with fresh troops and a population which has no idea what the other side just went through... fighting alone isn't going to win the throne now. Which brings me to the scene in the Crypts -- and Sansa's line about everyone who is down there being useless in a fight. But now, both her and Tyrion are needed in the fight ahead because it's not going to be won with armies alone -- though, I guess with two dragons they still have an unfair edge. Also, just as a thought -- I think the prequel series and spin offs they're planning are really going to dive into the backstory/epic Night King stuff you're longing for. ******************************* Random observations from tonight: * The Night King, despite thinking he was a Stark, was actually a Targaryen (that's why he couldn't burn). I know that had been debated, but I think we got that answer. * The Red Woman's resolution worked for me. * Lady Mormont had the ending she deserved -- she proved her badass stripes. * Tyrion and Sansa remaining married /being remarried is something I can get behind. * Reek still sucks. * I don't understand the strategy of sending the Dothraki and your cavalry first into the breach... * I also didn't understand why they didn't just post up with a dragon atop one of the walls to spit fire at the horde as they were breaching the trenches... 5
SDS Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: Yup. Littlefinger gave it back to Bran last season. Bran gave it to Arya knowing she'd use it to kill the Night King being as Bran's able to see into the future and explains why he's so calm throughout the whole ordeal. Unfortunately, since Bran knows how everything will play out he can't give any warnings about what's to come or they won't happen. He knew Theon was going to die hence the "you're a good man Theon" dialogue. Pardon my dumb question, where is it said he knows the future? The past he has access to. Was there a time where we learned he sees the future too?
Deranged Rhino Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 3 hours ago, jkeerie said: When Mellisandre said "and blue eyes " you knew it would be Arya that got him! But what a way to do it! My heart was in my throat that entire episode! 6 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: I don't like predicting who is doomed... but here's who I think will survive and why: The four obvious-- Arya: (Basing this on her being a survivor but also the fact she's one of Martin's favorites/won't kill list imo) Jon: (His story's not done yet, plus the Martin's favorite/won't kill list) Dany: (Her story's not done yet, plus the Martin's favorite/won't kill list) Tyrion: (His story's not done yet, plus the Martin's favorite/won't kill list) The rest/less obvious -- The Hound: (He can't die until we get the Clegane Bowl) Jamie: (His story's not done yet / his death has to involve his sister or Bronn) Sansa: (I think in the books she may not survive, but the TV show operates slightly differently here) Sam: (He's the one to chronicle the events, plus I think? he's on Martin's favorite/won't kill list) Davos: (This one's just a hunch... dude never seems to die) Missandei: (Figure Grayworm is likely toast -- but she'll survive it) I think I got this perfect tonight... 2 minutes ago, SDS said: Pardon my dumb question, where is it said he knows the future? The past he has access to. Was there a time where we learned he sees the future too? The original three eyed raven mentioned he could see the past and future (I think??). I can't remember if it's in the books at the moment, but I know I at least assumed he could see the future for awhile now. 1
Doc Brown Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 28 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Random observations from tonight: * The Night King, despite thinking he was a Stark, was actually a Targaryen (that's why he couldn't burn). I know that had been debated, but I think we got that answer. * The Red Woman's resolution worked for me. * Lady Mormont had the ending she deserved -- she proved her badass stripes. * Tyrion and Sansa remaining married /being remarried is something I can get behind. * Reek still sucks. * I don't understand the strategy of sending the Dothraki and your cavalry first into the breach... * I also didn't understand why they didn't just post up with a dragon atop one of the walls to spit fire at the horde as they were breaching the trenches... The Night King was able to walk through fire in a previous episode which is why I never completely bought into the theory that the Night King was actually Bran as Bran's a Stark. One thing I thought of during the fight is why Bran just didn't cut his arm off where the Night King marked him. That way you just put it in the middle of the field to lure him in. Sacrifices Bran. Sacrifices. 5 minutes ago, SDS said: Pardon my dumb question, where is it said he knows the future? The past he has access to. Was there a time where we learned he sees the future too? We know he at least can in flashes as he saw the Great Sept blow up a few episodes before it happened. It's unclear how clearly he can see the future because he doesn't have a Delorean. 1
JoPar_v2 Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 1 hour ago, #34fan said: How in the heck is HBO ever gonna top this? Hopefully with The Watchmen. That needs a redemption. 1
unbillievable Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) I thought it was a great episode. Large battle formations made up for repetitive one-on-one hacking scenes It may look stupid in hindsight, but the Dothraki massacre set the mood well. I loved it. For two episodes I kept hoping that they remembered to clear those tombs of corpses. It was too dark, the cam was too shaky, and the blizzard made the dragon fight pointless to watch. After Dany fell off the dragon, I knew the battle was won. No escape, means victory or end the series. I'm disappointed so many of the main characters survived. Then...Like everyone else... I figured out it was Arya after the "blue eyes scene." However, I imagined the scene playing out differently: wanted Bran to stand up, take off his face to reveal Arya, before stabbing the NK. Having her jump out of nowhere was jarring. How did she get past the circle of zombies? Was she hiding in the tree? The Dagger move redeemed the scene somewhat. Edited April 29, 2019 by unbillievable
LeGOATski Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 That was awesome. I hated their strategy, though. Why'd they strike first with the Dothraki? I guess it didn't matter what they did. The dead army was just going to overwhelm them one way or another. The scene where the Night King raises the dead was great. There was nothing the living could do. Killing the Night King was the only way (which the viewers already knew...) That's why he wouldn't fight Jon. He's not gonna risk that. Jon doesn't matter. He would've liked another ice dragon, but that didn't work out. I get that they needed Arya's attack to be a surprise, but I'd really love to see how she snuck through. I thought she would disguise herself as a wight in order to get close to the Night King. So the scene could've played out with all the wights standing around Bran and the Night King, when all of a sudden one breaks out in a sprint, then leaps at the Night King. Same thing happens, only with Arya taking off the disguise after the Night King shatters. My favorite scene of the episode was Lady Mormont killing the giant. Man....what a way to go out. I feel completely satisfied with the Night King's story. He has always been just a lurking bad guy. His goal was to wipe out the living and erase their existence. They already explained that he would target Bran in order to erase the knowledge of the Three Eyed Raven. If he succeeded, then he'd destroy the rest of the world and burn all the books. So much was at stake here. 1
Bad Things Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 Man, that was a fun episode to watch! Too bad I couldn't see what the heck was going on in half of the scenes since it was so dark. Was it a problem for the rest of you? I just want to make sure we didn't get a bad feed or something. 1
unbillievable Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: I feel completely satisfied with the Night King's story. He has always been just a lurking bad guy. His goal was to wipe out the living and erase their existence. They already explained that he would target Bran in order to erase the knowledge of the Three Eyed Raven. If he succeeded, then he'd destroy the rest of the world and burn all the books. So much was at stake here. I know a lot of people are disapointed there wasn't more to the NK, but I always viewed him more like a force of Nature rather than a real character. Just now, Bad Things said: Man, that was a fun episode to watch! Too bad I couldn't see what the heck was going on in half of the scenes since it was so dark. Was it a problem for the rest of you? I just want to make sure we didn't get a bad feed or something. I turned off every source of light in my bedroom, trying to see better.
Doc Brown Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 41 minutes ago, unbillievable said: I thought it was a great episode. Large battle formations made up for repetitive one-on-one hacking scenes It may look stupid in hindsight, but the Dothraki massacre set the mood well. I loved it. For two episodes I kept hoping that they remembered to clear those tombs of corpses. It was too dark, the cam was too shaky, and the blizzard made the dragon fight pointless to watch. After Dany fell off the dragon, I knew the battle was won. No escape, means victory or end the series. I'm disappointed so many of the main characters survived. Then...Like everyone else... I figured out it was Arya after the "blue eyes scene." However, I imagined the scene playing out differently: wanted Bran to stand up, take off his face to reveal Arya, before stabbing the NK. Having her jump out of nowhere was jarring. How did she get past the circle of zombies? Was she hiding in the tree? The Dagger move redeemed the scene somewhat. After the beheading of the only universally recognized actor, the Red Wedding, and Cersei blowing up the Crypt I thought there was a 20% chance everybody there would die and that's a testament to the books/show. Having the essential characters survive will make the final three episodes more interesting. I kind of wish Brienne died saving either Pod or Jaime though. Arya's training allows her to sneak up on people undetected (including the viewers at home). I thought that shot was perfect. The battle would've been better if shot at dawn like Battle of the Bastards or during the day like Hardhome. I get that they wanted us to feel "The Fog of War" with the shaky cameras/limited vision but I like to know what's going on. The Dothraki army attacking first didn't make a lot of sense, but seeing all the lights go out quickly sure set an ominous tone. Did they expect Melisandre to show up to set fire to their swords in order to kill the dead or were they just sent out to slaughter? I think they went first because the viewer doesn't really know any of them on a personal level. One final thing is The Night King getting to the one yard line only to get cocky and careless reminded me of The Mountain and the Viper episode. Make sure you finish your job... 3
JoPar_v2 Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 Bad ass episode. I do think the showrunners underestimated how shi***y the dark looks with the horrible cable/satellite bandwidth most of us have to deal with. The compression was awful. Hey maybe that episode was an underhanded message to bring American fiber into the 21st century? If so...bravo
/dev/null Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 On a somewhat related note, a recent study suggests that by 2070 The Dead may overtake The Living on Facebook https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-04/uoo-tdm042619.php 1
JoPar_v2 Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, /dev/null said: On a somewhat related note, a recent study suggests that by 2070 The Dead may overtake The Living on Facebook https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-04/uoo-tdm042619.php That’s...highly disturbing
eball Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 I'm convinced that viewers who pay attention to all of the "fan theories" just set themselves up for disappointment. What happened was pretty straightforward -- Bran wasn't the NK, the NK wasn't secretly riding his dragon to Kings Landing, etc., etc. I'm not a fan of today's directors' love affair with "dark" scenes but it's really hard to create a realistic night time battle scene without it being dark. Closing Melisandre's arc with Arya (and then Sir Davos) was excellent storytelling. With the Northern army decimated it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. I still think Dany dies -- she's no better than her father and shouldn't "win" the throne. Tyrion and Sansa were my only two predictions of characters who will last the entire show -- that thought was strengthened last night. 1
May Day 10 Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 Arya will appear she is going to kill cersei.... but caught by the mountain and broken in half. Hound gets mad and fights mountain. Both die.
TPS Posted April 29, 2019 Posted April 29, 2019 1 hour ago, LeGOATski said: That was awesome. I hated their strategy, though. Why'd they strike first with the Dothraki? I guess it didn't matter what they did. The dead army was just going to overwhelm them one way or another. The scene where the Night King raises the dead was great. There was nothing the living could do. Killing the Night King was the only way (which the viewers already knew...) That's why he wouldn't fight Jon. He's not gonna risk that. Jon doesn't matter. He would've liked another ice dragon, but that didn't work out. I get that they needed Arya's attack to be a surprise, but I'd really love to see how she snuck through. I thought she would disguise herself as a wight in order to get close to the Night King. So the scene could've played out with all the wights standing around Bran and the Night King, when all of a sudden one breaks out in a sprint, then leaps at the Night King. Same thing happens, only with Arya taking off the disguise after the Night King shatters. My favorite scene of the episode was Lady Mormont killing the giant. Man....what a way to go out. I feel completely satisfied with the Night King's story. He has always been just a lurking bad guy. His goal was to wipe out the living and erase their existence. They already explained that he would target Bran in order to erase the knowledge of the Three Eyed Raven. If he succeeded, then he'd destroy the rest of the world and burn all the books. So much was at stake here. Re Arya, I did like the subtle quick shot of a white walker turning his head and the whoosh of something going by. Also appropriate the NK was killed in front of the Weirwood tree--could it be same one where he was created by the children? my wife thinks Arya will survive it all and have Gendry's child. I'm doubtful. She's already saved mankind...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 29, 2019 Author Posted April 29, 2019 8 hours ago, Greybeard said: From what I saw, other than the stars, there can't be too many of the northern army left. So it should be interesting how they are going to work out the Kings Landing battle. It's not Rocket Science people its fantasy. The Dothraki Hordsmen and many Unsullied died outside the walls. The "rest of the Northern" armies were "inside" the protected walls of Winterfell. More troops??? A rallying cry to the Riverlands will be - Ceirce abandoned the living in the fight for the dead. Poor Dolorous Edd, as soon as he said Sam get up I knew his Watch Was Over. Theon ... You're a good man. You fought bravely and as the theorists thought wrongly didn't kill Bran Those that called out Lyanna Mormont nailed it. She went down bravely in the "eye" of the battle. Beric Dondarrion - I thought he went down 6 times in the run from the halls. Melisandre ..... Well the theory of the little girl was BS (though a cool theory) died silly. She should have died at the last second before the fires erupted. Did Dany pull Jorah in front of her when he was stabbed or did he turn into it my himself? Jon facing the death dragon was a bit hokey too, but well I'll leave it at that.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 29, 2019 Author Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: 1) Bran was the target, he was coming for him.What was the point of Bran being marked? Why was he the target? He also knew Arya would kill the night king, he gave her the dagger in the same spot she killed him. 2) What about the Prince that was promised? The Night King always let's Jon live? What was the point of that? The point of Craster and the baby scrifices? Absolutely everything they put into the army of the dead and the night king, the nuance, the mystery was wasted. All of last season - the army of the dead is coming, winter is coming we have to team up to stop them. It's been the second leading build up besides Cersei's cunning power grab. He was just another zombie; the fan theories are way better than what the show writers gave us. It's not Seinfeld ending bad, but it doesn't sit well when you think it thorough. It feels like a mechanism to get people together to go after Cersei. They could have done much more with the whole white walker and NK arc. The army of the dead might have well been the Frays. 1) which is typical of the show and it's "Easter eggs". 2) The prince that was promised ....... Remember the translation of prince? It was explained as genderless. The prince can still be Jon, or Dany, or ......... Arya. Remember this .... When Melisandre saw Arya up on the wall there was that look .... It made me start thinking ... My guess - Next week will be the gathering storm on Kings landing. Regroup, recover and 3 month travel 1000 leagues away. Edited April 29, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 29, 2019 Author Posted April 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: The battle would've been better if shot at dawn like Battle of the Bastards or during the day like Hardhome. I get that they wanted us to feel "The Fog of War" with the shaky cameras/limited vision but I like to know what's going on. In the darkness 100 looks like 10000. 1 hour ago, /dev/null said: On a somewhat related note, a recent study suggests that by 2070 The Dead may overtake The Living on Facebook https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-04/uoo-tdm042619.php I thought brain dead already runs FB and Twitter
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