Build a dominant O-Line!

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, CookieG said:

Well, the Colts did pretty much the opposite of what you're arguing.

 

They had many needs. They're defense is a work in progress. They could have used another pass rusher to go with Sheerd. They could have used another WR, like Ridley, considering that their WR corps consists of TY Hilton.

 

They also needed work on their Oline, even though they already had 2 1st round picks on it. Many would say something like "you can't waste all of your assets on the OLine".

 

But, they went with the "non-premium" position, taking a guard at no. 6. (Well, not just any guard). They compounded this by taking Braden Smith in the 2nd. They now have 3 1sts on their Oline, a 2nd, and a pretty damn good player in Glowinski.

 

Andrew Luck now looks like Andrew Luck again, in large part because he's given time to throw. And yesterday...pfft, on most of his passes he had enough time to cook lunch before throwing.

 

What they did yesterday was go against one of the best pass rushing duo's in the league, along with a D that hasn't given up a 100 yard rusher all year...and put them on their collective asses.

 

had they not made the investment in the OL, they aren't in the playoffs this year, much less dominating a defense like the Texans.

For all I know, Luck might not have made it through the year without an OL that can pass block so well.

 

Their plan most certainly worked for them.

 

 

 

Sure

 

I'm only saying that you don't need to spend a top 10 pick on a guard in order to get a good one 

[BillsSbSoon]

2 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

I am saying he is the reason the Colts are in the playoffs. His O-Line could have been bad and he still did it.

This year? Im not sure about that. If their oline was still bad i really dont think theyd be where they are right now. And he would prolly be hurt again

[MrEpsYtown]

8 minutes ago, CookieG said:

Well, the Colts did pretty much the opposite of what you're arguing.

 

They had many needs. They're defense is a work in progress. They could have used another pass rusher to go with Sheerd. They could have used another WR, like Ridley, considering that their WR corps consists of TY Hilton.

 

They also needed work on their Oline, even though they already had 2 1st round picks on it. Many would say something like "you can't waste all of your assets on the OLine".

 

But, they went with the "non-premium" position, taking a guard at no. 6. (Well, not just any guard). They compounded this by taking Braden Smith in the 2nd. They now have 3 1sts on their Oline, a 2nd, and a pretty damn good player in Glowinski.

 

Andrew Luck now looks like Andrew Luck again, in large part because he's given time to throw. And yesterday...pfft, on most of his passes he had enough time to cook lunch before throwing.

 

What they did yesterday was go against one of the best pass rushing duo's in the league, along with a D that hasn't given up a 100 yard rusher all year...and put them on their collective asses.

 

had they not made the investment in the OL, they aren't in the playoffs this year, much less dominating a defense like the Texans.

For all I know, Luck might not have made it through the year without an OL that can pass block so well.

 

Their plan most certainly worked for them.

 

 

 

The big thing though is that Quenton Nelson is an elite can't miss prospect. The guys going to be in the hall of fame if he stays healthy. What they did do is draft guys at non premium positions when the value was there. Ryan Kelly, #18 overall. Costanzo #22 overall. Glowinski was a former 4th rounder. They cut Austin Blythe, a former seventh rounder who is a really good starter for the Rams. 

 

There is value for offensive line picks mid to late first round. Also, as with Blythe and Glowinski, it's just about finding the right guys. Using a top ten pick on guy guards, centers, right tackles, only makes sense if they are Nelson level players. And I can assure you there are no players like that in the 2019 draft. 

 

Thats the difference. You can't reach on a non premium positions in the top ten unless they are elite can't miss prospects. 

 

 

[longtimebillsfan]

This could take more than one year to accomplish.   The recent track record offensive linemen's performance after signing large free agent contacts have not been encouraging.

 

Even if we find free agents, it takes a season at least for the line to gel.  I think this will be a two year process, but hope we show significant improvement in oline play in 2019.

[Boca BIlls]

14 minutes ago, BillsSbSoon said:

This year? Im not sure about that. If their oline was still bad i really dont think theyd be where they are right now. And he would prolly be hurt again

Most likely AFC championship game with old O-line just like he used to do.

[BADOLBILZ]

14 hours ago, Augie said:

 

If people have a problem with clock management, I suggest they complain about specific aspects they have a problem with. The McClappy thing is tired and lazy. I’ve never heard him say anything that sounded trite. 

 

 

You nailed it............the incessant clapping was trite.    

 

His PC's after a loss are the essence of trite too.

 

So is coming on the radio week after week and saying "would we like to score 50 points every week?....sure"  in response to questions about the league's second worst scoring offense.

 

You either aren't listening or are just being obstinate on that point.

 

Doesn't matter if the relentless clapping for everything doesn't bother a bunch of 60-70 year old men who see 25 year old pro football players as de facto children.

 

More constructive feedback should be expected of an NFL HC.

 

Again......good for McD for recognizing that and not clapping for every mental error........though with all the penalties his team committed this year perhaps his hands just got sore.

Edited January 6, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[billrooter]

20 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have been posting this for 20 years. As much as we need blocking, don't count on it. A first round corner would absolutely not shock me. In fact if my life depended on making the right guess, I would expect  to say hello to the corner from LSU at #9.

 

McClapper passed on Mahomes  and Watson to draft a corner. Why wouldn't he pass on a blocker?

Hope that is not the case Bill, if they go defense i want a dt or de. They have to get better on the line of scrimmage, draft a cb 3-4 round and hopefully Wallace fills out a bit and improves.

[BillsSbSoon]

2 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

Most likely AFC championship game with old O-line just like he used to do.

Yeah and then they get ruined by new england.

I agree it starts with the qb but the reason the colts are back where they are is that oline being rebuilt and luck being healthy. Marlon mack has looked like a solid back because of that line too. I dont think theyre beating kc either.

[peterpan]

17 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Nothin in Bean’s ONE draft has told you that???  Come on...

Don't be so obtuse.  Two drafts and two off-seasons, while trading away your franchise LT. 

[CookieG]

10 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

The big thing though is that Quenton Nelson is an elite can't miss prospect. The guys going to be in the hall of fame if he stays healthy. What they did do is draft guys at non premium positions when the value was there. Ryan Kelly, #18 overall. Costanzo #22 overall. Glowinski was a former 4th rounder. They cut Austin Blythe, a former seventh rounder who is a really good starter for the Rams. 

 

There is value for offensive line picks mid to late first round. Also, as with Blythe and Glowinski, it's just about finding the right guys. Using a top ten pick on guy guards, centers, right tackles, only makes sense if they are Nelson level players. And I can assure you there are no players like that in the 2019 draft. 

 

Thats the difference. You can't reach on a non premium positions in the top ten unless they are elite can't miss prospects. 

 

 

No, I don't think there is a Nelson in this draft either, I thought I might have mentioned it (guess I didn't). 

 

On the other hand, I'm not as big on slotting positions, outside of QB.  THAT'S the premium position.

 

And I'm definitely not in favor of demanding premium pass rushers...but believing the guys who are supposed to stop these premium pass rushers can be gotten anywhere. 

 

Certainly not with this team.  Its now 2019 and we haven't gotten an OL past the third round since Jason Peters...15 years ago.

 

Given two choices, I'd just as soon "reach" for good to very good OL talent than to play yet another year of "we can get one later in the draft". 

 

We end up picking scraps every time that happens.

[thebandit27]

9 minutes ago, CookieG said:

No, I don't think there is a Nelson in this draft either, I thought I might have mentioned it (guess I didn't). 

 

On the other hand, I'm not as big on slotting positions, outside of QB.  THAT'S the premium position.

 

And I'm definitely not in favor of demanding premium pass rushers...but believing the guys who are supposed to stop these premium pass rushers can be gotten anywhere. 

 

Certainly not with this team.  Its now 2019 and we haven't gotten an OL past the third round since Jason Peters...15 years ago.

 

Given two choices, I'd just as soon "reach" for good to very good OL talent than to play yet another year of "we can get one later in the draft". 

 

We end up picking scraps every time that happens.

 

To me, the big difference between drafting pass rusher high, but not necessarily OL guys is that I largely expect it to be the QB and OC's job to beat the pass rush.

 

Note that I'm not saying to go scrap heaping on the OL; I'm saying FA is my preferred route.

[Augie]

38 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You nailed it............the incessant clapping was trite.    

 

His PC's after a loss are the essence of trite too.

 

So is coming on the radio week after week and saying "would we like to score 50 points every week?....sure"  in response to questions about the league's second worst scoring offense.

 

You either aren't listening or are just being obstinate on that point.

 

Doesn't matter if the relentless clapping for everything doesn't bother a bunch of 60-70 year old men who see 25 year old pro football players as de facto children.

 

More constructive feedback should be expected of an NFL HC.

 

Again......good for McD for recognizing that and not clapping for every mental error........though with all the penalties his team committed this year perhaps his hands just got sore.

 

I’m quick to admit I see little of the PC’s, but mostly because I don’t expect too much quality content there from him, or any other HC. What does Belichick give you? That’sprobably The best way to handle it, IMO. 

 

I don’t Know why the clapping thing doesn’t really bother me. I guess it’s like the train horn, different things set off different people. To each their own. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Augie

[MrEpsYtown]

Look at the Chargers....it's a scrap heap. Okung and Pouncey former high draft picks by other teams. Pouncey a cap casualty, and #15 overall. Okung was a top ten pick signed as a free agent but an all pro left tackle. Feeney a third rounder. Sam Tevi a 6th rounder. Schofield a former third rounder claimed off waivers. 

 

Again, you just have to find the pieces that fit. 

[TroutDog]

1 hour ago, peterpan said:

Don't be so obtuse.  Two drafts and two off-seasons, while trading away your franchise LT. 

Not being obtuse. The fact is, Beane has been involved with one draft with the Bills and that trade is part of what allowed us to move up to get a QB...and we seemingly had a replacement LT. The other losses on the line no one could see coming. 

[Nihilarian]

On 1/5/2019 at 5:42 PM, Returntoglory said:

Watching the Colts game right now once again they put the graphic up of the offensive ranking from last year of the Colts and then with the addition of their first round pick and additional upgrades, Luck's O-Line is night and day and they are dominant!  This has to be the focus of the draft and free agency. 

The problem here in Buffalo is that the majority of this fan base would want to throw themselves under a buss should this FO draft an offensive guard with the 6th overall pick like the Colts did this year. Also, given that this HC is a defensive minded guy I really doubt he will want to draft for offense despite needing big time help on the O line an receiver corps.

 

Looking at what the Colts did this year is an excellent point in how to help that offense be all they can be with the building of a quality offensive line which is a big reason as to why that Colts offense is a top five unit. Look at the Colts over the last few years and they had Andrew Luck and he was getting beaten up and ultimately seriously injured because of bad lines. 

 

The Colts have three first found picks at LT, LG, OC and a #2 pick at RT.  That vaunted Texans D line with JJ Watt, Reader, Dunn with LBers Jadeveon Clowney, Whitney Mercilus and they didn't sack Luck not even once. Although they did manage to get four hits on him.

 

As much as I would love to see the Buffalo Bills put fourth the same effort the Colts did to build their offensive line. Sadly, after looking at what they went into this season with I just don't see this regime giving a hot damn about protecting Josh Allen because of his ability to scramble. 

[aristocrat]

17 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Look at the Chargers....it's a scrap heap. Okung and Pouncey former high draft picks by other teams. Pouncey a cap casualty, and #15 overall. Okung was a top ten pick signed as a free agent but an all pro left tackle. Feeney a third rounder. Sam Tevi a 6th rounder. Schofield a former third rounder claimed off waivers. 

 

Again, you just have to find the pieces that fit. 

 

third rounders are pretty high picks but you're right you just gotta hit.  we got our lt in the second. a nice guard in the fifth in teller i think.  now we need a legit center which i think was our main weakpoint last year.  if get a legit center it changes our entire line. 

[thebandit27]

30 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

The problem here in Buffalo is that the majority of this fan base would want to throw themselves under a buss should this FO draft an offensive guard with the 6th overall pick like the Colts did this year. Also, given that this HC is a defensive minded guy I really doubt he will want to draft for offense despite needing big time help on the O line an receiver corps.

 

Looking at what the Colts did this year is an excellent point in how to help that offense be all they can be with the building of a quality offensive line which is a big reason as to why that Colts offense is a top five unit. Look at the Colts over the last few years and they had Andrew Luck and he was getting beaten up and ultimately seriously injured because of bad lines. 

 

The Colts have three first found picks at LT, LG, OC and a #2 pick at RT.  That vaunted Texans D line with JJ Watt, Reader, Dunn with LBers Jadeveon Clowney, Whitney Mercilus and they didn't sack Luck not even once. Although they did manage to get four hits on him.

 

As much as I would love to see the Buffalo Bills put fourth the same effort the Colts did to build their offensive line. Sadly, after looking at what they went into this season with I just don't see this regime giving a hot damn about protecting Josh Allen because of his ability to scramble. 

 

The counterpoint is that you can look at teams like the Bears and Rams, who scrap heaped their way to very solid OL play.

 

Yes, I'm using hyperbole to make a point, but both teams have managed solid OLs without spending any high picks. 

 

Between the two starting 5's, the highest picks are Kyle Long and Roger Saffold--both were drafted as tackles and moved to guard.

 

Aside from them, it's a bunch of FA pickups and day 2/3 picks.

 

Same story with the Seahawks. Ifedi is the highest pick, and was drafted as a tackle (who was moved to guard and then back to tackle due to injuries). Other than that, FA pickups and a trade.

 

Speaking of trades, is now a good time to renew my plea for Buffalo to ship a mid-round pick to cap-strapped Philly for Jason Peters? He can finish his career how it was started: as a RT in Buffalo.

[Logic]

There is NOTHING WORSE than watching an otherwise good football team be undone by a bad o-line. It was really painful to watch the Bills' o-line in action this season. Just gross.

That being said: If everyone wants to commit to the offensive line to the degree the Colts did -- and I agree, it's my number 1 Bills wish this offseason -- they'd better be ready to accept some silly money being given out in Free Agency and/or some premium draft picks being spent on linemen. I don't want to hear any "the 2nd round is too early for a guard!" or "they overpaid Paradis!"....if you want an o-line like Indy has, you have to pay for it, either in money or picks or both.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

There is NOTHING WORSE than watching an otherwise good football team be undone by a bad o-line. It was really painful to watch the Bills' o-line in action this season. Just gross.

That being said: If everyone wants to commit to the offensive line to the degree the Colts did -- and I agree, it's my number 1 Bills wish this offseason -- they'd better be ready to accept some silly money being given out in Free Agency and/or some premium draft picks being spent on linemen. I don't want to hear any "the 2nd round is too early for a guard!" or "they overpaid Paradis!"....if you want an o-line like Indy has, you have to pay for it, either in money or picks or both.

 

Overpay! Overpay all day!

 

2 years from now they'll look like slightly above average contracts, and the cap is only going up. 

 

There are no more than 2-3 players on this team that will need big money deals in the next 3 years, so spend away. 

 

Save me the draft picks for the expensive stuff like pass rusher, WR, and CB

[FeelingOnYouboty]

I know we use the term 'generational' too much these days but that's what Quenton Nelson is. Braden Smith was one of my favorite players in the Draft last year. Didn't think he had the athletic ability to play RT and that his position would strictly be RG but he's been incredible. They've used a few firsts on Castonzo and Kelly who never really put it together until this year so they've gotten fortunate but yeah watching that Colts v Texans game I immediately wanted us to go OL heavy in the Draft. 

 

It's not like the Texans aren't talented in the Front 7 they have stars in Watt and Clowney and they got dominated at the POA. If Beane/McDermott are adamant about fixing the run and protecting their QB it would make sense if they invested heavy in our OL.