Greg Rosenthal QB Index

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He didn't rank Rosen above Allen!

Ah, 2 for the Ravens.  I do feel better now.

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

24 minutes ago, zow2 said:

The Bills need to study what the Bears did for Trubisky in his 2nd season.   I think they are similar style QBs.  But Trubisky does have some very good players around him and a big play defense to support the O.

Yep. Very similar QB's. Get Allen some guys with speed/large catch radius and we could see a huge leap next year. Bears added Gabriel and Robinson and drafted Anthony Miller. We've also got to address the line but have plenty of resources to do it.

 

Not Bills related, but how the hell did Nick Mullens rush for -16 yards this season? This isn't college where sacks are rushing yards. That's just an odd thing.

Edited January 4, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Logic]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Bills fans are way too easily offended as it relates to Josh Allen. Not every national pundit needs to give him a glowing review. It's fine. We're all excited about Allen, sure, but it's not the end of the world that non-Bills fans need more convincing. Who cares? Let the kid change their minds with his play on the field. The amount of hurt feelings and persistent pestering I see from Bills fans on Twitter and elsewhere any time someone gives Allen anything but praise is just crazy to me. Ease up. Breathe. It'll all be okay!

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Why must every metric/analysis of Allen that isn't gushing be met with such disdain? People are not out to get Allen. He didn't p*** in anyone's Cheerios. The sheer passing numbers don't paint a pretty picture. There is context as the supporting cast isn't great and Allen got markedly better as the year progressed. I suppose they could have added a disclaimer that the Bills offense was the Little Giants. That would have made everyone feel better.

 

This particular writer places Allen ahead of Rosen. We took the right Josh. Isn't that a good thing?

I don't feel like I need to defend Allen against every analyst and critic.  I do feel I need to defend Allen against "fans" who want him to be a bust.  

 

In the end, only JA winning games will change minds.  He will.  

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Bills fans are way too easily offended as it relates to Josh Allen. Not every national pundit needs to give him a glowing review. It's fine. We're all excited about Allen, sure, but it's not the end of the world that non-Bills fans need more convincing. Who cares? Let the kid change their minds with his play on the field. The amount of hurt feelings and persistent pestering I see from Bills fans on Twitter and elsewhere any time someone gives Allen anything but praise is just crazy to me. Ease up. Breathe. It'll all be okay!

 

One of the lingering effects of nearly 20 years of being an awful sports franchise.  Left it’s fans so desperate for anything that anything that might even resemble being good to latched on with unhealthy grip.

[racketmaster]

At least he begrudgingly ranked Allen just ahead of Rosen. Rosen was terrible this year and his summary of him was much more optimistic than Allen’s. He has never been an Allen believer and that is his opinion so it is what it is. If I were starting a franchise right now there are not more than a half dozen quarterbacks that I would take over Allen going forward. Allen has top 3 qb potential and barring injury should end up at least a top 10 qb for years to come. Allen will have to become a pro bowl qb for a couple of years before Rosenthal gives up his opinion that Allen is a bad qb. Tannehill, Flacco, Mullins etc. ahead of Allen lol. 

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

I don't feel like I need to defend Allen against every analyst and critic.  I do feel I need to defend Allen against "fans" who want him to be a bust.  

 

In the end, only JA winning games will change minds.  He will.  

There are no Bills fans who want Allen to bust. There are Bills fans who can put their emotions aside and logically evaluate the state of the team. Plenty of people don't like our starting left tackle. I suppose they want to see Dawkins bust.

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, CommonCents said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001007337/article/qb-index-patrick-mahomes-leads-yearend-rankings

 

Allen at 32nd.

Scattershot accuracy

 

How could Jackson be higher than Allen as he runs and doesn’t pass well? I hope Josh stays motivated and crushes it next year. 

Because Rosenthal is an idiot.  Take a look at the QBs he has Lamar Jackson ahead of.

[The Bills Blog]

This is legitimately reckless and hilarious. In all seriousness, this guy should probably lose his job. It couldn't be more obvious that he's just looking at stats, and even with that information in hand, his rankings are questionable at best.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Bills fans are way too easily offended as it relates to Josh Allen. Not every national pundit needs to give him a glowing review. It's fine. We're all excited about Allen, sure, but it's not the end of the world that non-Bills fans need more convincing. Who cares? Let the kid change their minds with his play on the field. The amount of hurt feelings and persistent pestering I see from Bills fans on Twitter and elsewhere any time someone gives Allen anything but praise is just crazy to me. Ease up. Breathe. It'll all be okay!

It's not hurt feelings.  I've read many expert criticisms of Allen that were balanced & objective.  I actually enjoy reading those types of articles as they help me set realistic expectations for Allen going into his 2nd year.  I believe that fair & accurate criticism of the Bills QB is welcomed by the vast majority of Bills fans.  But so much of what passes for expert criticism of Allen seems deeply personal to me. 

 

Bottom line is that in all my years of following the NFL I can't remember a QB as seemingly disliked by the experts as Allen.  Maybe Vick but then again he had a much bigger cheering section among the experts.  I just don't get why a seemingly decent kid like Allen with an interesting rags to riches story and possessing outstanding physical tools would generate this much antipathy.  Why is this guy even divisive?   I just don't get it. 

[zow2]

8 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yep. Very similar QB's. Get Allen some guys with speed/large catch radius and we could see a huge leap next year. Bears added Gabriel and Robinson and drafted Anthony Miller. We've also got to address the line but have plenty of resources to do it.

 

Better pieces around Allen will be nice, but it's also about Nagy and the type of plays being called.  Trubisky went from a 59% passer to over 66%.  That's huge.  

[The Bills Blog]

Josh Allen raises the level of play of his teammates and singlehandedly carried the Bills offense this year. He was 5-5 with the worst offensive talent in football. He was historically great running the ball. These rankings seem to be based on a review of his raw passing stats, which is wildly unfair and not representative of him as a player.

[formerlyofCtown]

59 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

He sums it and my thoughts on Allen up pretty well.

 

i think the really good QBs are able to:

 

- make the mundane plays regularly

- the key plays at end of games

- Have ability to make WOW plays

 

Allen has 1/3 so far.  Let’s see where it goes in 2019.

Allen

-makes key plays at the end of games

-has the ability to make WOW plays

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's not hurt feelings.  I've read many expert criticisms of Allen that were balanced & objective.  I actually enjoy reading those types of articles as they help me set realistic expectations for Allen going into his 2nd year.  I believe that fair & accurate criticism of the Bills QB is welcomed by the vast majority of Bills fans.  But so much of what passes for expert criticism of Allen seems deeply personal to me. 

 

Bottom line is that in all my years of following the NFL I can't remember a QB as seemingly disliked by the experts as Allen.  Maybe Vick but then again he had a much bigger cheering section among the experts.  I just don't get why a seemingly decent kid like Allen with an interesting rags to riches story and possessing outstanding physical tools would generate this much antipathy.  Why is this guy even divisive?   I just don't get it. 

Some analysts planted their flag in the "Allen will be a bust!" turf very early on. Many of them are "analytics guys". They now need Allen to fail in order to validate their strongly stated opinions. It IS silly, and there ARE a lot of overly negative, unfairly biased pieces out there. 

That being said, when Bills fans overreact to those types of pieces -- even though they reek of confirmation bias -- it makes them look childish and silly. Like I said before, Allen will either prove them wrong with his play or he won't. "Trust the process".

The thing is, it's not just those types of pieces that get Bills fans riled up. Even articles like the one posted in this thread from Rosenthal seem to offend some Bills fans. Is calling him the 32nd best quarterback in the league really that crazy or unfair at this point? Has he really so firmly proven that he's better than that already? I like Allen a lot, but I don't see what's so unreasonable about what Rosenthal said.

[formerlyofCtown]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's not hurt feelings.  I've read many expert criticisms of Allen that were balanced & objective.  I actually enjoy reading those types of articles as they help me set realistic expectations for Allen going into his 2nd year.  I believe that fair & accurate criticism of the Bills QB is welcomed by the vast majority of Bills fans.  But so much of what passes for expert criticism of Allen seems deeply personal to me. 

 

Bottom line is that in all my years of following the NFL I can't remember a QB as seemingly disliked by the experts as Allen.  Maybe Vick but then again he had a much bigger cheering section among the experts.  I just don't get why a seemingly decent kid like Allen with an interesting rags to riches story and possessing outstanding physical tools would generate this much antipathy.  Why is this guy even divisive?   I just don't get it. 

Maybe they found out he voted for Trump Lol

[Flip Johnson]

30 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He didn't rank Rosen above Allen!

 

No, he ranked Bortles above Allen!

[racketmaster]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's not hurt feelings.  I've read many expert criticisms of Allen that were balanced & objective.  I actually enjoy reading those types of articles as they help me set realistic expectations for Allen going into his 2nd year.  I believe that fair & accurate criticism of the Bills QB is welcomed by the vast majority of Bills fans.  But so much of what passes for expert criticism of Allen seems deeply personal to me. 

 

Bottom line is that in all my years of following the NFL I can't remember a QB as seemingly disliked by the experts as Allen.  Maybe Vick but then again he had a much bigger cheering section among the experts.  I just don't get why a seemingly decent kid like Allen with an interesting rags to riches story and possessing outstanding physical tools would generate this much antipathy.  Why is this guy even divisive?   I just don't get it. 

Good post. I think it is mostly analytics driven. Analytics has become “hot” in recent years and there is nothing wrong with numbers as they can be quite useful. However, we may be getting to a breaking point where analytics (especially at the college level) are overvalued. 

 

And because Allen was so bad when being analyzed by the analytics crowd (those that look primarily at just the numbers), they cannot fathom Allen being any good. Essentially, if Allen becomes good the analytics crowd takes a big hit and they don’t want that. 

 

In this sense, Allen is kinda like our current president. People have dug into their sides and there is no room for compromise. So those in the analytics community continue to hold onto the numbers (particularly passing numbers) to show that Allen is still bad and the same guy he was in college. Interesting enough, many of the same people praise Jackson even though most all of his talent comes from his running ability, which is absolutely the best the game has ever seen. It’s just comical seeing these folks twist themselves up and lay down contradictory arguments. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

No need to be sensitive guys. I wouldn't have him at 32 but look at Trubisky ranked at 30 last year and now at 19. 

 

Can Josh Allen duplicate Trubisky's second year? If he does we're a playoff team

 

2018 stats: 14 games | 66.6 pct | 3,223 pass yds | 7.4 ypa | 24 pass TD | 12 INT | 421 rush yds | 3 rush TD

[zow2]

2 minutes ago, The Bills Blog said:

Josh Allen raises the level of play of his teammates and singlehandedly carried the Bills offense this year. He was 5-5 with the worst offensive talent in football. He was historically great running the ball. These rankings seem to be based on a review of his raw passing stats, which is wildly unfair and not representative of him as a player.

 

Agree.   Lamar Jackson gets credit for sparking his team and being an awesome running QB.  Allen gets a bit of a red flag for running too much.    His running stats as well as Allen's should be looked at as their entire productivity as QB's.   Moving the chains with a run evens out any poor passes and drops in my opinion.,,,but it's not really viewed that way.   

Now, there's no doubt Allen must get his completion % higher as he moves forward if he ever wants to lead Buffalo to a SB victory.  The running will level off, it always does.  But for the 2018 season,  When i look at the first downs he gained and the chunk run plays... he was very good, especially in those final 6 games.  In my view of his play, Allen finished with 18 TDs, 12 INTs.  Lamar finished with 11 and 3.   That's pretty darn good.

[machine gun kelly]

Allen’s play will eventually prove these knuckleheads right or wrong.  He certainly is the best prospect we’ve had since Kelly.  He may only end up average, or a stud.  It’s what he does this off season will show what he can do.