[Misleading Title] NFL ranks Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds 14th and 15th best rookies, respectively, for 2018

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Sony Michel should be higher. I think Lamar Jackson is about 3 starts away from being figured out and made ineffective. We have 2 rookie corners and 1 rookie WR that wouldnt be to far off of the back of this list. If we fix the Oline and the ST this offseason, we might have something here.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Lamar Jackson?    he had the benefit of a playoff team that didn't teat apart the O line.  

 

[BarleyNY]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

 

No.

 

It's a plug and play position.  You can't compare it to being  rookie QB.  I t would make no sense to even attempt to.

 

The guy was the 3rd best rookie this year---behind UDFA rookie Lindsay.  After the bye, he had 2 games over 100 yards....and had 3 games where he rushed for 3.0, 3.4 and 2.7 yards. Those are not "beast" numbers...

 

Josh Allen was a better rusher than Chubb in the last 6 weeks of the season...

 

Again, he doesn't belong ahead of Allen (at least).

 

 

 

Wow!  Are you really using a QB’s rushing stats to judge that player?  Just wow.

 

Sure positional importance/difficulty should be favored in, but if you’re going to do that then you really need to judge a player on their primary job.  

Edited January 4, 2019 by BarleyNY

[thebandit27]

Interesting stat for Edmunds:

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

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[1st Ammendment NoMas]

18 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Seems very fair to me.

 

Funny how PFF recently ranked Levi Wallace as the highest ranked rookie CB, way ahead of Denzel Ward who is at #10.  This list seems to be a lot of name recognition factor here, rd 1 picks esp, they aren't to interested in guys taken after rd 2 most less a UDFA.

Except Lindsay from Denver. You can't ignore those numbers.

[whatdrought]

17 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

I would agree with some of the list. The Lamar hype is hilarious to me. Ravens are running a legit high school offense and it’s working for a few games and the hype train chugs along. 

Id like to see what he does say losing by 14 if he can actually run an offense throwing the ball to get them back in the game. 

Not hating on the guy but they’re basically just running the wildcat with some interesting pulling formations from the lineman and teams are having trouble adjusting, don’t think that’s gonna work well in the playoffs. 

Some of the list is just name hype and draft positions. Some are legit stars in the making

 

I saw the shortcomming of Jackson against Cleveland. They had the chance to ice the game, but the browns had adjusted to the run and Jackson couldn’t make the needed play to put it away. 

I expect them to lose to the Chargers. defense is great, and it does win championships, but you need an offense to go with it.

 

The thing with Jackson that’s so funny to me is that the talking heads are so desperate to see him succeed (cause appearently it’s racist to ask if he will or not, or if he should play a different position) that they’re willing to go against their main narrative of the NFL being a high scoring passing league now.

 

dont get me wrong, what they’ve done with Jackson has been impressive and he’s been a great weapon, but not so much a great QB. I expect that to get exposed in the playoffs.

 

 

11 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Interesting stat for Edmunds:

 

 

Watt the Younger really blew up this year!

 

Cool to see Milano on this list as well.

Edited January 4, 2019 by whatdrought

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Wow!  Are you really using a QB’s rushing stats to judge that player?  Just wow.

 

Sure positional importance/difficulty should be favored in, but if you’re going to do that then you really need to judge a player on their primary job.  

 

 

Absolutely--why wouldn't I?  It's a major part of his value and impact this season.  The topic of the thread is ranking the top rookies.  How does the third best rookie RB get ahead of Josh Allen?

 

How many QBs in the entire league ran for over 600 yards?  And 8 rushing TDs (same as Chubb)?  Plus, you know....he had to play QB.

 

Chubb had a nice rookie season, but he wasn't a better player than Allen, so he shouldn't be ranked ahead of him.  Pretty simple.

[2003Contenders]

7 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I saw the shortcomming of Jackson against Cleveland. They had the chance to ice the game, but the browns had adjusted to the run and Jackson couldn’t make the needed play to put it away. 

I expect them to lose to the Chargers. defense is great, and it does win championships, but you need an offense to go with it.

 

The thing with Jackson that’s so funny to me is that the talking heads are so desperate to see him succeed (cause appearently it’s racist to ask if he will or not, or if he should play a different position) that they’re willing to go against their main narrative of the NFL being a high scoring passing league now.

 

dont get me wrong, what they’ve done with Jackson has been impressive and he’s been a great weapon, but not so much a great QB. I expect that to get exposed in the playoffs.

 

Bottom line: aside from some designed running plays, the Ravens have done their best to hide Lamar Jackson, since naming him the starter. Meanwhile, in Buffalo during that same stretch, Josh Allen WAS the team's offense.

 

In comparing apples-to-apples, let's look at weeks 12-17 (Jackson got his first start in week 11, and Allen returned from injury in Week 12).  Aside from the Allen's first game back (against Jacksonville), where he attempted only 19 passes for 160 yards, Allen attempted at least 26 passes in every game and passed for at least 200 yards in each of them. He tossed 8 TD passes in those 6 games combined. Meanwhile, Jackson did not attempt as many as 26 passes in a single game. He has passed for 200 yards only once -- and that was a mere 204 yards. 

 

Over that 6-game span, Josh passed for 1242 yards and 8 TD passes, whereas Jackson threw for just  964 yards and 5 TD passes.

 

Rushing, which is  Jackson's greatest advertised asset, you ask? Well, Allen out-gained Jackson 476-441 and scored 5 rushing TDs to Jackson's 4. The amazing thing is that Allen's rushing numbers came on just 54 attempts, compared to Jackson's 92. Yes, that is correct. Josh Allen was a far more prolific runner than Jackson was, even though he had 38 fewer rush attempts than Jackson had in weeks 12-17.

 

Not taking anything away from Jackson because he has been mostly mistake-free -- and his team is in the playoffs. He tossed just 2 INTs during that time frame, compared to Josh's 7. 

 

Still, all things being equal and factoring in what was asked of each of these QBs, it is asinine to rank Lamar Jackson ahead of Josh Allen in any format whatsoever.

[whatdrought]

4 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

 

Bottom line: aside from some designed running plays, the Ravens have done their best to hide Lamar Jackson, since naming him the starter. Meanwhile, in Buffalo during that same stretch, Josh Allen WAS the team's offense.

 

In comparing apples-to-apples, let's look at weeks 12-17 (Jackson got his first start in week 11, and Allen returned from injury in Week 12).  Aside from the Allen's first game back (against Jacksonville), where he attempted only 19 passes for 160 yards, Allen attempted at least 26 passes in every game and passed for at least 200 yards in each of them. He tossed 8 TD passes in those 6 games combined. Meanwhile, Jackson did not attempt as many as 26 passes in a single game. He has passed for 200 yards only once -- and that was a mere 204 yards. 

 

Over that 6-game span, Josh passed for 1242 yards and 8 TD passes, whereas Jackson threw for just  964 yards and 5 TD passes.

 

Rushing, which is  Jackson's greatest advertised asset, you ask? Well, Allen out-gained Jackson 476-441 and scored 5 rushing TDs to Jackson's 4. The amazing thing is that Allen's rushing numbers came on just 54 attempts, compared to Jackson's 92. Yes, that is correct. Josh Allen was a far more prolific runner than Jackson was, even though he had 38 fewer rush attempts than Jackson had in weeks 12-17.

 

Not taking anything away from Jackson because he has been mostly mistake-free -- and his team is in the playoffs. He tossed just 2 INTs during that time frame, compared to Josh's 7. 

 

Still, all things being equal and factoring in what was asked of each of these QBs, it is asinine to rank Lamar Jackson ahead of Josh Allen in any format whatsoever.

 

Agreed.

 

He’s getting the job done and winning, but it really feels like that’s in spite of him, and not because of him.

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Absolutely--why wouldn't I?  It's a major part of his value and impact this season.  The topic of the thread is ranking the top rookies.  How does the third best rookie RB get ahead of Josh Allen?

 

How many QBs in the entire league ran for over 600 yards?  And 8 rushing TDs (same as Chubb)?  Plus, you know....he had to play QB.

 

Chubb had a nice rookie season, but he wasn't a better player than Allen, so he shouldn't be ranked ahead of him.  Pretty simple.

 

Running is a very nice extra for a QB, but to highly rate one that player should be an effective and efficient passer.  Chubb was PFFs highest rated RB overall, not just rookie RB. Allen wasn’t a well rated QB.  He has shown flashes - and that’s great wrt giving fans hope - but it isn’t the same as being good at his job (yet).  It’s that simple. I’ll take the guy who did his job the best. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Running is a very nice extra for a QB, but to highly rate one that player should be an effective and efficient passer.  Chubb was PFFs highest rated RB overall, not just rookie RB. Allen wasn’t a well rated QB.  He has shown flashes - and that’s great wrt giving fans hope - but it isn’t the same as being good at his job (yet).  It’s that simple. I’ll take the guy who did his job the best. 

 

The UDFA Lindsay had more yards and more TDs on the same amount of carries as Chubb.  Barkley had a far greater load to carry than Chubb (20 carries vs 12 a game), so he had to produce over far more carries (and 7 games over 100 yards, vs 4 for Chubb).  

 

PFF ranking is nice, but mo one confused Chubb with Barkley, who runs at a different level.

[co_springs_billsfan]

16 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Quickly eyeballing it, Colts have two in the top 10 and 3 in top 25.  That and getting Luck back explains the turnaround.  Browns have three in the top 10, including a QB.  I didn't see anyone other than the Bills and Bears with two in the top 20.

 

So on that list, the Bills are big winners compared to most the league.  And if they were big winners, it means they have their two most important positions filled for next ten years.   That's HUGE.  Think about that - McBeane don't have to worry about a QB or an MLB for ten years.   Belichick had it at QB, but no place on his defense.  

 

Bills need good coaching and good role players.   

 

Imagine a future where the Browns and Bills fight for AFC supremacy year after year.  Like the Pats and the Colts, or the Pats and the Steelers.  It's not so far-fetched.  

Was going to thumbs up this post, but there was just too much Pats* in it