Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 6:24 PM, BobChalmers said: Cam Newton is also a cocky SOB who comfortably presented himself as Superman from the get-go. Josh Allen is all about how he can work to get better. No comparison on who is likely to improve more. Expand Cam threw for over 4000 yds and 21 TDs as a rookie so yeah I guess you could say he was so far ahead out of the gate that even for Josh to match that rookie season in his second or third he has far to go.
The Senator Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) When asked how he keeps turning out top QBs in the NCAA, ‘quarterback whisperer’ Mike Leach replied that you start with someone who’s already accurate, and you can pretty much teach them everything else. Funny thing is, I didn’t find Josh to be all that innacurate this season - his receivers either didn’t come back to the ball to bail him out, or they just kept dropping passes that hit them right in the hands. Or, in Benjamin’s case, they didn’t even try to catch the ball. Plus, half the time, he was running for his life. JMO . Edited January 4, 2019 by The Senator 2
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 12:55 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't know about 'depth of target". Newton was rocking 7.2 YPA this season, which is the highest he's had in the past four years. 7.2 YPA oughtta move the chains PS threw more TD than he had for the last 3 years, too Expand I stand corrected I guess, but I do remember hearing that despite the better statistics the Carolina offense wasn't as effective as it was when Cam was throwing the ball deep
CLTbills Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 I’d you think Cam Newton is accurate, you have not watched any of their games. You’re just looking at stats... just like people that say Josh Allen is inaccurate because he has a low completion percentage, when if you actually watched him play, you’d know that’s not actually true. Cam is WILDLY inaccurate. I live in charlotte so all we get are Panthers games on TV. I cant remember the last time I saw him hit someone between the numbers. The number of wide open guys he has and throws the ball either in the dirt or six feet over their head is astounding. he is the epitome of an INaccurate passer. 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 6:11 PM, matter2003 said: Cam Newton has a career completion percentage of 59.7%...prior to this season he had 2 years with at or above a 60% completion percentage, with a high of 61.7% and the other exactly at 60%. This year he well exceeded this at 67.9%. So what is going on? Did he just learn how to be more accurate? Or was he just making easier throws to McCaffery more often leading to higher completion rates? Expand Great new for Allen, plus he is not a b!tch so he is already a step ahead.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 6:24 PM, BobChalmers said: Cam Newton is also a cocky SOB who comfortably presented himself as Superman from the get-go. Josh Allen is all about how he can work to get better. No comparison on who is likely to improve more. Expand So cocky SOBs, no matter how much one may dislike them, can't improve their performance? If they learn something new or different works for them, they'll set it aside because they're cocky SOBs? And increased experience is a non-factor for them? Hmhh.
Green Lightning Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 1:55 AM, formerlyofCtown said: Until you hit him or he throws a pick, then he falls apart. Expand or fumbles in the super bowl and then just watches it bounce in front of him.
formerlyofCtown Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 2:47 AM, Green Lightning said: or fumbles in the super bowl and then just watches it bounce in front of him. Expand Dont forget the part about laying on the ground like a toddler throwing a tantrum.
Green Lightning Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 3:24 AM, formerlyofCtown said: Dont forget the part about laying on the ground like a toddler throwing a tantrum. Expand Somehow he pouted away what often is a once in a career opportunity to win a SB.
formerlyofCtown Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 3:26 AM, Green Lightning said: Somehow he pouted away what often is a once in a career opportunity to win a SB. Expand He did impress me this year as he has become a better passer than I ever thought he could be.
BillsSbSoon Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 6:24 PM, BobChalmers said: Cam Newton is also a cocky SOB who comfortably presented himself as Superman from the get-go. Josh Allen is all about how he can work to get better. No comparison on who is likely to improve more. Expand You know, this is a really great point and i like cam a lot.
MJS Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 6:14 PM, Magox said: Play design, similar to why Allen had a pretty high completion % vs the Dolphins. Allen arguably had an average post injury throwing day, but they designed a bunch of high completion passes hence the higher %. That's why this whole shallow NFL pundit and fan obsession of equating completion % to accuracy is misguided. Expand But also guys can improve. People seem to expect improvement from college players and also from young players in the NFL, but for some reason they have this strange belief that QB accuracy, specifically, cannot change once they put on an NFL uniform. They believe that virtually any other aspect can be improved upon as players except accuracy. I think that is very strange. But I'd also submit that Josh Allen is not innaccurate. He is inconsistent with his mechanics and touch. When his mechanics are right he can zip passes into tight windows like the best of them. He can be very accurate. I think all of his weaknesses can be improved with practice, coaching, and experience. 1
billsfan_34 Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 6:32 PM, Wo-Bah said: I can't even begin to tell you how much I agree with all of this. Expand Dilly Dilly- I concur also
H2o Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 Our beloved Jim Kelly only had 4 seasons out of 11 in total where he completed more than 60% of his passes. The other 7 his completion percentage was around 58-59%. That was with Thurman, Kenneth Davis, Reed, Lofton, Beebe, Metzelaars, McKeller, and that offense we had.
row_33 Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 11:40 AM, H2o said: Our beloved Jim Kelly only had 4 seasons out of 11 in total where he completed more than 60% of his passes. The other 7 his completion percentage was around 58-59%. That was with Thurman, Kenneth Davis, Reed, Lofton, Beebe, Metzelaars, McKeller, and that offense we had. Expand That’s why stats without context are completely useless
oldmanfan Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 12:07 PM, row_33 said: That’s why stats without context are completely useless Expand Bravo
racketmaster Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 1:19 AM, matter2003 said: Combine this with lower depth of target stats and this means his receivers picking up YAC was a big chunk of that rather than him throwing the ball downfield Expand Mccaffery, Moore and Samuels are all pretty dangerous with the ball in their hands.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 1:19 AM, matter2003 said: Combine this with lower depth of target stats and this means his receivers picking up YAC was a big chunk of that rather than him throwing the ball downfield Expand That's fine. It moves the chains. Again, I don't know where the "depth of target" stats come from, but NFL next gen stats now track completed air yards (CAY) and intended air yards (IAY). Newton stands at 5.0 this season. Last season Newton was 5.6. Roethlisberger and Stafford, checkdown artists, are 4.7 and 4.8. Brady is 5.6. Brees is 5.9. Luck and his demise are 6.1. Intended air yards, Newton this season is right between Matthew Stafford and Drew Brees at 7.1. Put it together with YPA, and I guess it must mean Newton's WR are on average picking up 2 YAC. (7 YPA - 5 CAY) I don't think Newton has exactly become "Checkdown Charlie", and if he's taking the short stuff the D gives him now instead of trying to launch downfield all the time, I think that shows improvement on his part. 1
Big Turk Posted January 4, 2019 Author Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) On 1/4/2019 at 1:47 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: That's fine. It moves the chains. Again, I don't know where the "depth of target" stats come from, but NFL next gen stats now track completed air yards (CAY) and intended air yards (IAY). Newton stands at 5.0 this season. Last season Newton was 5.6. Roethlisberger and Stafford, checkdown artists, are 4.7 and 4.8. Brady is 5.6. Brees is 5.9. Luck and his demise are 6.1. Intended air yards, Newton this season is right between Matthew Stafford and Drew Brees at 7.1. Put it together with YPA, and I guess it must mean Newton's WR are on average picking up 2 YAC. (7 YPA - 5 CAY) I don't think Newton has exactly become "Checkdown Charlie", and if he's taking the short stuff the D gives him now instead of trying to launch downfield all the time, I think that shows improvement on his part. Expand Allen led all QBs in intended air yards at 11.0, which might help explain why his completion percentage was lower...that being said it doesn't explain it all as Jameis Winston was only 0.2 yards behind him at 10.8 and had a completion percentage 12% higher. Edited January 4, 2019 by matter2003
Mojo44 Posted January 4, 2019 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 6:11 PM, matter2003 said: Cam Newton has a career completion percentage of 59.7%...prior to this season he had 2 years with at or above a 60% completion percentage, with a high of 61.7% and the other exactly at 60%. This year he well exceeded this at 67.9%. So what is going on? Did he just learn how to be more accurate? Or was he just making easier throws to McCaffery more often leading to higher completion rates? Expand It’s a prevailing myth, in the sense that it is a great falsehood, that accuracy from the pocket cannot be taught. It is absolutely a trainable psychomotor skill. Just do some research and you’ll see that this is the case. However, it is generally believe that passing accuracy on the run is more inherent. Josh can get way better with his accuracy from the pocket if he works on it which I am sure he will.
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