MrEpsYtown Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: He is an elite offensive guy and the Bills have a defense and this is a deep defensive draft. I respectfully disagree. He is a raw player who has some big upside, but I can't pass on elite, day 1 starting defensive lineman for a raw receiving prospect. I don't think there are elite offensive players in this draft. There are some raw guys who are projectable and could be very good. Edited January 2, 2019 by MrEpsYtown 3 1
Royale with Cheese Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: They could probably trade down to the bottom of round 1 and still get him. Possibly even early in round 2. Yahoo projects him as a 2nd rounder. It's just a projection at this point but I don't think it's unfair to say he's worth the #9 overall pick. I still have N'Keal Harry high on my list but he may not be a top 10 talent either.
Logic Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 I think the Bills are a #1 receiver away from having a legitimate receiving corps. Really? Yes, really. If you can either draft or trade for a #1 caliber guy, it will allow Foster to move to the #2 spot, of which he appears more than capable. He's your speed option that takes the top off the defense. Zay Jones moves to his most natural slot position. McKenzie is the 4th receiver/gadget player. Add in a depth option to play the 5th spot and you're off and running. The trickle down effect of having a true #1 can't be overstated, and can be seen by looking at Dak Prescott before and after the arrival of Amari Cooper. Personally, I'd love to see them trade for AJ Green and then draft a couple youngsters in the 3rd-5th rounds. Overall, the emergence of Foster, Jones, and McKenzie as the year progressed made WR less of a dire need than it once seemed. It's still a need, to be sure, but I'd rank offensive line and tight end above the WR position at this point in terms of need. 1
ctk232 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said: My gut says don't spend big FA $ on an aging WR. I would continue to develop Zay and Robert. I would spend a lower contract on a potential #2 guy like Tyrell Williams. I would try to trade up in the 2nd round and see if Marquise Brown falls? Stay away from Diva wrs. Might not even need to trade up with pick 41 - right in the WR sweet spot, but look to the Jets and Raiders to likely add WR if they can, so a trade up may not be so crazy...it's a tough second round spot to gauge for sure, but between Metcalf, Harry, and Brown, there will likely be valued talent there at our pick in the second.
The Jokeman Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, njbuff said: Or will they draft someone within the first two rounds and continue to develop their own young WR's? Or will they do both? Will they make a big trade for an AJ Green, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham? Will they take someone in the second round, cause as of right now there isn't a WR worth the 9th overall pick (which obviously can change)? What do you think? I'm sure we'll sign someone yet I wouldn't be shocked to see Beane move down in the draft and take a WR in the teens/early twenties. As mentioned DK Metcalf might be the best WR in the draft, the question is he worth #9 from a physical standpoint he was you like and has NFL roots which make him likable yet he's not been the guy in college and of course coming off injury so not sure he's worth #9. That said I'll admit a few years ago I didn't expect Corey Davis to go as high as he did so anything is possible yet I think Beane could trade down at get a guy in the mid teens/early twenties to fill the role and add more draft picks.
Royale with Cheese Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am absolutely for a vet and a high pick. The whole point of the vet is take the pressure of your high pick. I just am not with you on Metcalf (or any other WR being value at #9). Metcalf is my #2 I have the Arizona State kid marginally ahead as my #1 WR. I don't think there will be a consensus #1 WR in this class think they all have holes. My view is if we want to pick a receiver in the 1st we should trade back first. I think any of them at #9 is a bit of a reach still. You're thinking of N'Keal Harry from ASU. I've seen him mocked anywhere from us at #9 to late first round. They are early projections and still seems to not be close on a census best WR....or even if there's a WR worth taking in the top 20. I think dream scenario is trade out of #9 to move back to around 13-17 and then get Harry.....or the best edge rusher....or a dominate interior lineman.
rayray808 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 with the new regime you gotta factor in "off the field" stuff right away... which leaves out AB and OBJ. here is how I see us approaching the WR market: - sign Tyrelle Williams - sign Devonte Parker - draft a WR or TE in round 2 (maybe move up a little to get our guy that we even debated to take at 9 - similar to the Tremaine Edmunds move) with those 2 or 3 guys on the depth chart, you allow Foster/Zay to earn a spot above or below them. either way with Zay and Foster as your WR3/4/5 - that is a damn good receiving corps side note: if we don't draft a TE in round 2 I think we sign a big dude like Jessie James as the ultimate outlet for Josh Allen next season GO BILLS 1
RyanC883 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, rayray808 said: with the new regime you gotta factor in "off the field" stuff right away... which leaves out AB and OBJ. here is how I see us approaching the WR market: - sign Tyrelle Williams - sign Devonte Parker - draft a WR or TE in round 2 (maybe move up a little to get our guy that we even debated to take at 9 - similar to the Tremaine Edmunds move) with those 2 or 3 guys on the depth chart, you allow Foster/Zay to earn a spot above or below them. either way with Zay and Foster as your WR3/4/5 - that is a damn good receiving corps side note: if we don't draft a TE in round 2 I think we sign a big dude like Jessie James as the ultimate outlet for Josh Allen next season GO BILLS I think we should try to get Jessie James regardless of whether we draft a TE. I love the idea of a nice outlet like that for Allen. Was totally missing this year at TE.
GunnerBill Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: I respectfully disagree. He is a raw player who has some big upside, but I can't pass on elite, day 1 starting defensive lineman for a raw receiving prospect. I don't think there are elite offensive players in this draft. There are some raw guys who are projectable and could be very good. This is 100% where I am at too. 4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: You're thinking of N'Keal Harry from ASU. I've seen him mocked anywhere from us at #9 to late first round. They are early projections and still seems to not be close on a census best WR....or even if there's a WR worth taking in the top 20. I think dream scenario is trade out of #9 to move back to around 13-17 and then get Harry.....or the best edge rusher....or a dominate interior lineman. I am. I always want to call him D'Keal instead of N'Keal and Henry instead of Harry hence I avoided saying it. Thanks! 1
freddyjj Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 53 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Like Thurman Thomas, knee issue, definitely not worth the pick. LOL and he went in 2nd rd as a result btw, not top 10
Magox Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I totally agree that we need to add a vet, in fact, I think we need to add 2. I do think Metcalf will enter draft night as the consensus #1 WR on the board after he shows at the combine. For me, he is the one guy in the draft that has all the pieces to be a legit #1 WR. The guy I am "not there" yet on is our own Zay Jones. Can he keep getting better, sure, but right now I dont see him as anything more than a 3rd or 4th WR. I am worried that the last Dolphins game is going to overlook all the times he completely let this team down. He doesn't excel in a single area of the game. Look at the key areas of the game for a WR: Route Running - Too easily taken off his routes by opposing defenders. In fact, in several games hes been just manhandled. And even when not manhandled, he has run sloppy routes at times. I like his effort (or at least the effort reported by Allen and the staff) in practice and to get better, but for a guy without high end speed, he has to WIN a LOT more on his routes than he does. Hands - I mean this has been on full display for 2 seasons...just way too many drops. Contested Balls - Making his drops worse, he has been terrible at fighting for contested balls, and when you got a cannon like Allen under center, you better be able to win matchups and fight for balls. Coming back and adjustments - Another area that its been frustrating is how poor hes done at coming back to balls, especially when Allen is escaping pressure. Ironically, he still gets a lot of his production on these type of plays, but usually when the DB loses him because its hard to hold coverage that long for any DB. But there have been a lot of times where Allen is escaping and needs him to come back and he just doesn't get there or fails to win against the DB. This is why that, not only do I agree we need a Veteran, but I think we need 2 because I dont think Zay should be a lock for this roster next year, and certainly should NOT be a lock for the top 3 spots at WR if he is here. I am totally fine letting him to try and WIN a job against legit competition, but I think we are gambling way too much if we go into the season with our top 3 WRs as Vet/Rookie and then Foster and Zay who both have struggled catching consistently (although Foster has really grown a lot, so he has tons of potential to keep growing as a WR). I would really like to see us make a play for Tate (or Tyrell) and then add a guy like Humphries to come in and compete for the slot. Then take a WR in the first 2 rounds in the draft. If we got Tate, we would enter camp with Tate penciled in as the #1 and Foster would be the fave to start opposite him initially with what ever rookie we took battling to move up the depth chart. Humphries can be our Kupp type role out of the slot and Zay can compete with him for that role. Resign McKenzie as a 5th or 6th WR with ST abilities. I think Foster is the higher quality WR out of the two. I see Foster as a legitimate contender as being the #2 WR on the team for next year. I think if we can go after getting a quality WR via the draft/trade for the #1, and get a decent FA WR to go along with Zay as the #3 and #4, I think we could be looking really good. The emergence of Foster and improved play of Zay I think is going to be a tremendous development for this team moving forward.
Misterbluesky Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: I'm sure we'll sign someone yet I wouldn't be shocked to see Beane move down in the draft and take a WR in the teens/early twenties. As mentioned DK Metcalf might be the best WR in the draft, the question is he worth #9 from a physical standpoint he was you like and has NFL roots which make him likable yet he's not been the guy in college and of course coming off injury so not sure he's worth #9. That said I'll admit a few years ago I didn't expect Corey Davis to go as high as he did so anything is possible yet I think Beane could trade down at get a guy in the mid teens/early twenties to fill the role and add more draft picks. What about AJ Brown from Old Miss?
Whites Bay Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Estelle Getty said: Yes and his name is Julio Jones The thing that causes me to doubt it will be Julio Jones is venue. Most of these receiver contracts are based on production metrics, right? I mean, they're going to make their money on number of catches, yards after catch, touchdowns, etc. I think it's pretty quantitative. So if you're Julio Jones, you're going from a situation in which you're guaranteed to play 9 games in a dome to a situation in which you're going to play essentially every game outdoors (depending on the division through which you're rotating). The only decent weather you can be guaranteed is the away game in Miami, and even THAT might be raining. You're going from no wind, no rain, no snow, 72 degrees and perfect conditions to a crap shoot. I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, but my GUESS is that this has to figure into the calculation. If he's looking to move on and he wants to maximize the numbers for what will likely be his last contract, he might be better off in a place like Minnesota, or Indianapolis. Guess it all depends what offer is put in front of him. But I wouldn't be surprised if this figures into the decision.
TroutDog Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 49 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Metcalf is absolutely worthy of the 9th pick I really don’t believe so. He is a poor route runner with a very limited tree. This will mean there will probably be quite some time until he can perform at a high level in the NFL (like most WR’s). He is, however, a great physical specimen and also has NFL pedigree.
Augie Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 While Josh was far from a Pro Bowler, his performance and improvement over the course of the season just might make it a little easier to attract a decent FA WR compared to the situation we had a year ago.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am absolutely for a vet and a high pick. The whole point of the vet is take the pressure of your high pick. I just am not with you on Metcalf (or any other WR being value at #9). Metcalf is my #2 I have the Arizona State kid marginally ahead as my #1 WR. I don't think there will be a consensus #1 WR in this class think they all have holes. My view is if we want to pick a receiver in the 1st we should trade back first. I think any of them at #9 is a bit of a reach still. I agree that today #9 is probably a reach on any WR, but my expectation is for Metcalf to shine at combine and cement himself as the top guy and worth of a top 15 or even top 10 pick. And yes, agree on Harry too, he is second on my board before the combine. Going to be an exciting offseason for sure to see how these prospects do at the combine and more importantly to see who we look at in Free Agency. I do also think its possible, maybe not likely, but certainly possible Beane could try and trade for one of the potential high end WR's that could be available this offseason out of AJ, Julio, AB, or OBJ. Giants saying no truth to OBJ rumors, but that doesn't mean things won't change or that its completely true. Tomlins press conference today and ABs tweet during it along with AB now following the 49ers makes me think there is more and more possibility he could be moved, albeit probably not until that 5 day window where the Steelers can take his dead cap hit down from $21M to just over $7M, and that will be after the draft and free agency is over. So doubt he will be the plan for us regardless. But AJ and Julio certainly could be in play and wouldn't be shocked to see Beane look into them either. That being said, I would still rather keep our assets and sign Tate or Tyrell then draft a WR personally. I certainly would not hate getting AJ or Julio, but I think the WR market is good enough to where we dont need to part with draft assets and this draft is deep with WR's, so if we wait til 2nd round we can still get a nice prospect.
Juice_32 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Philo Beddoe said: My thought is they should target a veteran that has shown the ability, but not necessarily a #1(Tyler Boyd comes to mind) AND also draft someone that can develop into a true #1. That would probably require a trade down or the second round. This is the most realistic scenario. I expect a WR taken early in the draft and think we’ll bring in a vet, but I do not see a splash trade for AJ or Julio happening.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, Magox said: I think Foster is the higher quality WR out of the two. I see Foster as a legitimate contender as being the #2 WR on the team for next year. I think if we can go after getting a quality WR via the draft/trade for the #1, and get a decent FA WR to go along with Zay as the #3 and #4, I think we could be looking really good. The emergence of Foster and improved play of Zay I think is going to be a tremendous development for this team moving forward. I agree on Foster, its Zay I am not sold on. I would rather have Foster, 2 vets, and a rookie in our top 4 than Zay be there. I honestly am highly skeptical Zay will make this team next year. I want to like him, and all reports is that he works hard. But he just isnt good in any facet of the game after 2 seasons. I want to see how Zay and Foster look competing against more talent at WR here. I know Foster is a lock, and should be, but Zay is a guy I think will start getting lost in the shuffle if we had better WR's competing for on field time around him. He just doesn't stand out in any part of the game. I would sign Tate/Tyrell. Then go sign Humphries. We enter draft with those 4 guys plus McKenzie as a 5th WR/ST guy. Now this opens the draft all the way up to maybe look at a TE early instead of a WR like Fant or Orkwuegbunam in the first or 2nd round, or even the kid from Stanford in the 2nd or 3rd round while drafting OL as well. This is a deep WR class, so we could still grab a good WR prospect in 3rd ro 4th too. Open up season with: QB - Allen TE - Fant or Orkwuegbunam WR1 - Tate or Tyrell WR2 - Foster WR3/Slot - Humphries WR4 - Zay WR5/ST - McKenzie Sign some veteran OL guys and draft one or two as well early. Now go sign a RB like Ingram or some other quality RB to split the load with McCoy and damn we will be set for a big jump on offense in 2019 and compete for divisional crown. 1
rayray808 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 Give the Steelers Lesean McCoy and a 2nd round pick for AB. Sign Leveon Bell. Draft Jonah Williams at 9. Win AFC East.
Estelle Getty Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 35 minutes ago, Whites Bay said: The thing that causes me to doubt it will be Julio Jones is venue. Most of these receiver contracts are based on production metrics, right? I mean, they're going to make their money on number of catches, yards after catch, touchdowns, etc. I think it's pretty quantitative. So if you're Julio Jones, you're going from a situation in which you're guaranteed to play 9 games in a dome to a situation in which you're going to play essentially every game outdoors (depending on the division through which you're rotating). The only decent weather you can be guaranteed is the away game in Miami, and even THAT might be raining. You're going from no wind, no rain, no snow, 72 degrees and perfect conditions to a crap shoot. I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, but my GUESS is that this has to figure into the calculation. If he's looking to move on and he wants to maximize the numbers for what will likely be his last contract, he might be better off in a place like Minnesota, or Indianapolis. Guess it all depends what offer is put in front of him. But I wouldn't be surprised if this figures into the decision. I agree with alot of your post, however the beauty of the trade is it isn’t up to the player. Lesean McCoy is a good example.
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