Magox Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Just to be clear I wasn't trying to compare Josh's game to Tyrod. Just his output. Josh averaged about 188 yards per game passing (took it on 11 games think that is fair... started 11 didn't finish 1 but played half of one he didn't start) and about 58 rushing. That is right in the Tyrod production bracket even if there were plenty of differences about how he got there. That level of production can be serviceable.... Tyrod proved it. You need pieces around him and he'd have to turn it over less but if that is his floor it is a serviceable floor. That was my only point. Pre-draft I was definitely lower on what Allen's floor was. The exciting thing is that his ceiling is so much higher. The Tyrod problem wasn't low floor.... his floor was pretty high.... it was a low ceiling. After we drafted him I watched all the games I could of every throw he had and I never bought into the very low floor label that was often thrown out there. People were comparing him to a Jamarcus Russel or EJ Manuel 2.0 sort of possibility. His work ethic would never allow him to be a Jamarcus sort of bust and to me EJ truly did have accuracy issues despite the high completion % that people liked to cite of his college days. EJ's throws in college were for the most part consisted of lots of short throws and he didn't have the same willingness to make plays that JA displayed. I just didn't see the comparisons. What I saw of Allen was that if he had his feet set he threw his 20-30 yard passes with lots of accuracy. What I also saw was that he was such an awesome scrambler, could shed off tackles with ease with that huge gun of an arm and the mentality to go for the jugular down the field when he escaped the pocket that these combined traits alone would most likely translate into a playmaking QB. I created a whole thread basically describing these things and how I didn't believe the low floor hype. I thought that his floor was Blake Bortles (not that this is good but it's not god awful) and that his ceiling was a Ben Roth sort of player. That was pre draft. Now I think his floor is Kaepernick during his San Fran days. 1
WideRightRevenge Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 He's perfect for Buffalo ... just as the team said when they drafted him .. he's a Buffalo guy ... the last game was telling to me .. he threw a STUPID pick 6 to end the first half, but came out in the 2nd half and hammered the fish. Plus the team has his back after they defended him from the Kiko cheap shot. I love that we are finally taking more shots downfield .. and his arm ... WOOF .. there were 15 mph winds on Sunday at New Era and he was shredding it through the air (17 of 26 ... yes sit down a 65% completion percentage). Think he will take full advantage of the off season and continue to work on the short touch passes .. now surround him with better talent and watch out! 3
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 23 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said: i'm honestly not trying to be a jerk here guys but I have no clue how somebody can come to such over the top conclusions about a guy so early in their career. Some hyperbole in my statement obviously. But the overall point is that there wasn't really anything to be excited about after the first six games. If his last six games were just like his first six games 90% of the board would be talking about firing all the coaches and drafting another QB early. He really progressed in his last six games and showed why he was taken #7 overall. 3 hours ago, Magox said: I thought that his floor was Blake Bortles (not that this is good but it's not god awful) and that his ceiling was a Ben Roth sort of player. That was pre draft. Now I think his floor is Kaepernick during his San Fran days. Yeah, I wast thinking floor a combination of Ozweiler/Bortles. His ceiling seems limitless now. Some sort of mix between Big Ben and Cam Newton with the legs of Kaepernick.
Antonio Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 23 hours ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said: Antonio, my good fellow, you make excellent points. YE OLE was in the same boat with this pick on draft night and completely hated it. YE OLE had, in fact, convinced himself that Baker was the superior prospect and when he was off the board wanted Darnold or Rosen ahead of Allen. As as we stand here today... as good as Baker was this year, I’m not convinced he will ultimately be better than Allen. That’s not a knock on Baker... he’s going to be very good. He might even be great in the vein of a Drew Brees type of passer. The difference to me is that nobody doubted that Allen going in to this draft had physically superior tools in every way, but was simply not capable of playing and may even need 2 years just to sit and watch if he was even going to have a remote chance of success. I was fully expecting him to sail balls into the hospitality tent a la EJ and have no ability to fit the ball into tight windows. When he had to play so early I was excited to see him, but braces for complete disaster. I was completely wrong... he wasn’t completely overmatched by the level of competition and he can zip the ball into really tight windows. He’s probably going to always miss a few throws a game, but he can obviously make plays that very few, if any, other QBs in the league can make. If he puts it all together and begins to think and understand the game at a high level, I believe he will be better than Baker. Agree! He is going to miss some but make up for it with some magical plays, runs or passes I don´t care. So far so good, and I feel so much better today than after draftnight. He definitly has my atention.
GoBills808 Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 Kid is going to be a bonafide superstar. Take the best parts of Roethlisberger and Newton in a blender. A right handed Steve Young. A giant among men. Teh answer to questions unasked. The creator and provider. A talent unlike the league has ever seen. I just wish we could retrieve old shoutbox tape from draft night, I was all over this pick.
Rufridr101 Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 Nope! I said at the time he had the most potential of any of the quarterbacks drafted. The others drafted may have been more ready on day one but the goal is championships. Josh Allen has that rare talent and is even more competitive than I realized. Aaron Rodgers is a talented guy but lacks that competitive fire. When the bills lost this year it truly ate Josh alive. He hates losing and combined with the talent great news for buffalo bills fans.
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 My opinion never changed. I was always onboard with this pick. I did not like any of the others. Mayfield was the closest, but I didn't like his height. Allen has it all IMO. He SO reminds me of Jim Kelly (JA could probably play linebacker, too!). There's a swagger and confidence factor that I really see when he's on the field. I like the kid!
RevWarRifleman Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 No. I liked the pick on draft day and knew that he would be a bit of a work-in-progress. Watching him through the season, I'm very pleased with him going forward from here. The last few games have been particularly well done. The kid's a leader and has the fire in his gut and the heart of a lion. Something this franchise has lacked for decades at his position. I want to see less running with the ball with him from now on, and I think we'll see that as our (I assume) wr & te group improves. Lots to look forward to Bills fan. As one NFL player once said "CAN'T WAIT!!!!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 I hated, hated the pick. For the most part, he is what I thought he would be. But he is definitely more fast and he is exciting (though weirdly exciting isn’t as the best quality for a qb). i want to see him with better weapons to make a real judgment on him. I think he gets way too many excuses made. Personally, I think it’s sad we are settling for Daboll because I don’t think he’s anything special as an OC and would love a real offensive mind here. but he isn’t the worst qb ever so I have a little more optimism than I thought I would. Long way to go though.
Mango Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 7 hours ago, Magox said: After we drafted him I watched all the games I could of every throw he had and I never bought into the very low floor label that was often thrown out there. People were comparing him to a Jamarcus Russel or EJ Manuel 2.0 sort of possibility. His work ethic would never allow him to be a Jamarcus sort of bust and to me EJ truly did have accuracy issues despite the high completion % that people liked to cite of his college days. EJ's throws in college were for the most part consisted of lots of short throws and he didn't have the same willingness to make plays that JA displayed. I just didn't see the comparisons. What I saw of Allen was that if he had his feet set he threw his 20-30 yard passes with lots of accuracy. What I also saw was that he was such an awesome scrambler, could shed off tackles with ease with that huge gun of an arm and the mentality to go for the jugular down the field when he escaped the pocket that these combined traits alone would most likely translate into a playmaking QB. I created a whole thread basically describing these things and how I didn't believe the low floor hype. I thought that his floor was Blake Bortles (not that this is good but it's not god awful) and that his ceiling was a Ben Roth sort of player. That was pre draft. Now I think his floor is Kaepernick during his San Fran days. I think his floor, attitude aside, is probably similar to Jay Cutler.
Boatdrinks Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 Honestly I hated the pick on draft night. I thought Rosen was the safer pick and that’s what I wanted. Maybe bbfs at work there, but I had myself convinced. I’m a lot more optimistic on Allen now, especially seeing the difference before his injury and after. Prior to being hurt, he was scraping by on athleticism and looked like he probably shouldn’t be playing. After he returned it never appeared that way. I want to see some major attention to the offensive side of the ball this offseason and expect to see a big jump by Allen next year. More excited about their offensive prospects than I’ve been in a long time, largely due to Allen being the QB. That’s a big change from anything I envisioned on draft night.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) On 1/2/2019 at 9:23 AM, Flip Johnson said: I am convinced that there are some people on this board who would have watched Dan Marino in 1983 and said, "we need to see more." Patrick Mahomes this year was Dan Marino of 1984. I loved the Allen pick at the time and feel even better now..........but we gotta' hope that Mahomes/Allen turns out like Marino/Kelly did. Edited January 4, 2019 by BADOLBILZ 1
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 saved the best for last... Josh Allen, Darius Leonard among Players of the Week Josh Allen saved his best for last. The Bills' rookie quarterback completed 17 of 26 passes for 224 yards and three touchdowns with an INT, while also running for two touchdowns and 95 yards. The three passing TDs and five overall scores were both career highs. It was only the second time this season Allen completed more than 50 percent of his throws. It all added up to a 42-17 Buffalo win versus the Miami Dolphins and earned Allen AFC Offensive Player of the Week.
Tenhigh Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I hated, hated the pick. For the most part, he is what I thought he would be. But he is definitely more fast and he is exciting (though weirdly exciting isn’t as the best quality for a qb). i want to see him with better weapons to make a real judgment on him. I think he gets way too many excuses made. Personally, I think it’s sad we are settling for Daboll because I don’t think he’s anything special as an OC and would love a real offensive mind here. but he isn’t the worst qb ever so I have a little more optimism than I thought I would. Long way to go though. Look who's gushing about the kid.... CB97 is COMING AROUND! 1
Veneno Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 On 1/2/2019 at 8:46 AM, matter2003 said: For me, I didnt want him. I believed all the hype with his terrible completion percentage, that he wasn't ready, etc etc... I am a pretty big fan after watching his first year play out I have to admit. Accuracy is an issue but not as much as I think most people believe. Yes he makes some bad throws, but throwing the ball away, deeper throws than normal and dropped passes are a much bigger factor in his incompletions than his inaccuracy. in fact I was surprised to see his accuracy be so much better than i imagined...I was envisioning balls all over the place and terrible ball placement but I didnt see a lot of that. Were there some throws he would like back? Yeah sure there were...did he appear to be a 51.4% completion QB based on the accuracy of his throws? No way... His athleticism is off the charts, dude is crazy fast for his size and is explosive when running. He hits top speed quickly and can really move...you can see this by how many times a defender thinks they have him and takes a bad angle only to have Allen blow by the guy without him even touching him. I think shoring up the protection, and giving Allen some more weapons to work with will do a lot towards helping him improve his completion percentage. Do i think he will ever be a 65% completion QB? No. He will probably be similar to Cam Newton hovering around upper 50s to low 60s. I think we can still win with that based on how often he throws deeper passes and improving the talent around him. Needless to say I'm excited to see how things work out as he gets a full off season and all the work in minicamps and training camps as the undisputed #1 QB with continued help from Anderson and Barkley who he credits for a lot of his development in little nuances and understanding the game better. So has your opinion changed on Josh Allen from the draft to now? No. He is where he suppose to be. He was great athlete in college, mediocre passer in a mediocre division. I expected him to finish the season at around 50% completion and more INT than TD thrown. I also expected him to be an extra RB since he can't read defense well.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: saved the best for last... Josh Allen, Darius Leonard among Players of the Week Josh Allen saved his best for last. The Bills' rookie quarterback completed 17 of 26 passes for 224 yards and three touchdowns with an INT, while also running for two touchdowns and 95 yards. The three passing TDs and five overall scores were both career highs. It was only the second time this season Allen completed more than 50 percent of his throws. It all added up to a 42-17 Buffalo win versus the Miami Dolphins and earned Allen AFC Offensive Player of the Week. I think the author meant to say 60%... 1
purple haze Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 I didn't prefer Allen. At the time of the pick I was hoping for Rosen because he was safer and would be ready to play sooner. I still maintain a guy like Allen is really a second round pick if the draft world made any sense. His physical talent was high end, but his production wasn't. However, I believed if Allen could put together all of his physical gifts and skills he would be the second coming of John Elway. That's his ceiling. After this season I'm all in on him. The kid is a dog. He goes for the opponents neck, balls to the wall. He has "It". Hes an exciting player. That said, he has a lot to improve on, so the jury is still out, but he took good steps this season.
Ittakestime Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 For people that actually watched him in college, your opinion wouldn't have changed. For the people that listened to draft "gurus" your opinion probably changed. He is the same as he was in college. Doesn't play good against the big teams, and would have decent games versus lower level competition. Inaccurate, doesn't goes through progressions quick enough, won't stay in pocket enough and overall has a lot to be desired. He is fun to watch, but he also is so frustrating because it didn't seem like he ever turned the corner in college. 1
CincyBillsFan Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) Interesting to see how this thread is progressing. One common theme is how much better Allen played after the injury versus before the injury. This is what appears to have turned around some of his biggest detractors. And IMO this is why we have every reason to be optimistic for next year. The degree to which Allen improved in EVERY phase of his game after the injury was startling to see. It shows an ability to learn on the fly and indicates that we'll see an even bigger jump after an entire off season of work. Allen's lack of high end QB training prior to arriving in the NFL suggests that he may improve to a greater extent then almost any QB in the modern era. Allen is truly a "blank" canvas who is going to benefit greatly over the next 6 months from NFL caliber coaching & the mentoring of Anderson/Barkley. Along with his impressive physical gifts Allen appears to be a quick study. He is simultaneously improving his understanding of the game while also perfecting his throwing mechanics & footwork. Edited January 3, 2019 by CincyBillsFan
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted January 3, 2019 Posted January 3, 2019 Can you say ‘No’ and it not be a negative thing? Because that’s how I feel. Allen basically brought his divisive hero ball from Wyoming along with his amazing big plays and poor Competion % to the NFL. He was exactly as advertised by the Scouting Reports. Pros and Cons. I try to not have opinions and just let the numbers and results tell me what is. So for me...nothing really has changed. Season 2 is where things need to change.
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