BillyWhiteShows Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 Listening to the Brandon Beane press conference this morning, I caught Beane indirectly insult Whaley and the previous administration. He first took a shot at Whaley’s cap management and said that by breaking to bank to be aggressive in Free Agency you end up in a bad situation like the Bills used to have. This was a direct shot at Whaley’s aggressive approach in Free Agency. I also thought the comment about “drafting based on need” could also be a shot at Whaley. As his big move of trading up to draft Sammy Watkins pretty much sealed his fate. It made me think about the moves that Whaley made. While some might consider it “aggressive,” they come off to me as “desperate.” He seems like a fighter who knows he’s behind on points, so he’s going to swing for the fences and hope for a knockout. If he misses and gets KO’ed, he would have lost on points anyway. So he was either really desperate or just purely clueless how to build a team long term. It makes you wonder how much pressure Doug was under to win. It seems very apparent that McDermott and Beane are not under pressure to win ASAP, and the Pegulas are going to be very patient. Doug never really seemed to take a meticulous calculated approach. He was always about making the big move to end the drought. Ironically, I got the impression that Whaley’s predecessor Buddy Nix was given a lot of time when he first signed on as GM under Ralph/Russ. His first few years as GM were vert quiet and he didn’t try to make huge moves. Both Buddy and Ralph preached “patience” to fan base (which infuriated me at the time.). But when Ralph’s health took a downturn and speculation started about new owners, that’s when Buddy started doing things like breaking the bank for Mario Williams, signing Mark Anderson to a ridiculous deal, and of course wasting a 1st round draft pick on a QB with a 3rd or 4th round grade. It makes you wonder how much pressure Whaley was to win and the effect that the change in ownswrship (or potential change in ownership) had on the decisions made. 1
Bob in STL Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 I heard he was under a lot of pressure, over 2,500 Newton’s per square meter, some days even more. 2 8
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bob in STL said: I heard he was under a lot of pressure, over 2,500 Newton’s per square meter, some days even more. LOL ????
CaptnCoke11 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 Gonna be lots of pissy people here when he doesn’t blow all the cap on free agents 1 3
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: Gonna be lots of pissy people here when he doesn’t blow all the cap on free agents Im sure. But was Whaley’s decision to blow all of his cap space on free agents based on the urgency to win or was he just plain incompetent?
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: Gonna be lots of pissy people here when he doesn’t blow all the cap on free agents not me. I expect smart judicial signings. 2
EasternOHBillsFan Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 Whaley's legacy is how many of his draft picks remain on our team, and how many remain in the league as impact players. That says it all... he legacy as a poor drafter is THE key. Overspending is but the secondary issue. If your drafted players aren't great, you are in trouble. 2
Buffalo86 Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 I think there's plenty of evidence that Whaley was incompetent. A few examples: Lobbying for EJ to start in 2016, before we were eliminated from the playoffs Trading up for Sammy Watkins, then saying there wasn't much of a difference in how they ranked Sammy compared to other first round WRs Trading a 2014 5th to the Bucs for a 2014 7th + a 2015 5th. Small potatoes, but it was horrible value. Seriously, what is the point of a move like that? "Stealing" Charles Clay away from the Dolphins. We'll be paying $4.5mm this year for him to not be here $13.6mm we paid for Dareus not to be here in 2018 Rex Ryan: "National Brand", "finding the person you're going to marry", "completing each other's sentences". Many will say that Doug didn't want Rex. If that's true, I'd say he went way beyond the company line with all that nonsense. Also, the once popular argument that Doug really wanted Hue Jackson doesn't sound so good anymore 1 1
Trogdor Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said: Whaley's legacy is how many of his draft picks remain on our team, and how many remain in the league as impact players. That says it all... he legacy as a poor drafter is THE key. Overspending is but the secondary issue. If your drafted players aren't great, you are in trouble. Quite a few are contributing on other teams. Not a great drafter, but changing scheme's constantly probably didn't help. That fault lays at the feet of the Pegulas because they picked the coaches. 2 1
Flip Johnson Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 Whaley was never in lockstep with the head coach. Everyone in that time period (Nix, Gailey, Whaley, Marrone, Rex) was under enormous pressure to break the drought but without a comprehensive plan or philosophical agreement within the organization. His shortsightedness was really self-protection - he didn't have time to be patient so he started throwing hail marys. 5
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Quite a few are contributing on other teams. Not a great drafter, but changing scheme's constantly probably didn't help. That fault lays at the feet of the Pegulas because they picked the coaches. Who is really an impact player as he suggested? I believe there are some decent players, but again, no impact players Also I agree the Pegulas are at fault. Not for hiring coaches but for enabling Whaley he should have been fired when Marrone left in 2014. 3 minutes ago, Flip Johnson said: Whaley was never in lockstep with the head coach. Everyone in that time period (Nix, Gailey, Whaley, Marrone, Rex) was under enormous pressure to break the drought but without a comprehensive plan or philosophical agreement within the organization. His shortsightedness was really self-protection - he didn't have time to be patient so he started throwing hail marys. This is more of what it looks like in hindsight. Thanks for sharing
Mango Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said: Whaley's legacy is how many of his draft picks remain on our team, and how many remain in the league as impact players. That says it all... he legacy as a poor drafter is THE key. Overspending is but the secondary issue. If your drafted players aren't great, you are in trouble. There was a stat out there that Doug Whaley HS more players starting on NFL rosters than any GM in the NFL that were drafted during his tenure. His biggest whiff was EJ. His biggest blunder was forcing him down our throats. Not allowing him to hire his own coach sort of hamstrung his “process”. All things considered, I think he was an above average GM. Not the best but not bad either. He had a good eye for pro scouting. Made some good trades as well. We won the Shady and Hughes trade, hands down. I do know this team is better with Darby, Glenn, and Dareus on the roster. Im still unsure if Beane is better or worse to date. 6 1
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Mango said: There was a stat out there that Doug Whaley HS more players starting on NFL rosters than any GM in the NFL that were drafted during his tenure. His biggest whiff was EJ. His biggest blunder was forcing him down our throats. Not allowing him to hire his own coach sort of hamstrung his “process”. All things considered, I think he was an above average GM. Not the best but not bad either. He had a good eye for pro scouting. Made some good trades as well. We won the Shady and Hughes trade, hands down. I do know this team is better with Darby, Glenn, and Dareus on the roster. Im still unsure if Beane is better or worse to date. He said Whaley didn’t draft any “impact players.” Name an impact player that he drafted. Also were they really better with Darby, Glenn, and Dareus on the roster? Didn’t the Bills make the playoffs last season? 1
Mango Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, Buffalo86 said: I think there's plenty of evidence that Whaley was incompetent. A few examples: Lobbying for EJ to start in 2016, before we were eliminated from the playoffs Trading up for Sammy Watkins, then saying there wasn't much of a difference in how they ranked Sammy compared to other first round WRs Trading a 2014 5th to the Bucs for a 2014 7th + a 2015 5th. Small potatoes, but it was horrible value. Seriously, what is the point of a move like that? "Stealing" Charles Clay away from the Dolphins. We'll be paying $4.5mm this year for him to not be here $13.6mm we paid for Dareus not to be here in 2018 Rex Ryan: "National Brand", "finding the person you're going to marry", "completing each other's sentences". Many will say that Doug didn't want Rex. If that's true, I'd say he went way beyond the company line with all that nonsense. Also, the once popular argument that Doug really wanted Hue Jackson doesn't sound so good anymore 1. This is fair 2. Pre-draft and during the draft this is absolutely false. There was talk of Watkins possibly going first over all. 3. Meh. 4. We and the staff asked for a TE. He was the best tight end available. We overpaid. But that’s FA. I don’t hate Clay as much as others on this board. His knees are breaking apart. It’s a shame. Won’t throw a fit if he leaves though. 5. His cap hit had we waited until the next league year, 2019, instead of getting a bag of footballs would have allowed us to make more moves this year. The decision to drop Dareus with that price tag falls on this FO alone. Would have dropped the cap hit to 4.5 mil-ish. Managing personalities is part of the job of a coach. 6. A lot going on here. He didn’t hire Hue. He didn’t hire Rex. Other than that, we don’t know. His presser though. That was brutal. ? 1
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mango said: 1. This is fair 2. Pre-draft and during the draft this is absolutely false. There was talk of Watkins possibly going first over all. 3. Meh. 4. We and the staff asked for a TE. He was the best tight end available. We overpaid. But that’s FA. I don’t hate Clay as much as others on this board. His knees are breaking apart. It’s a shame. Won’t throw a fit if he leaves though. 5. His cap hit had we waited until the next league year, 2019, instead of getting a bag of footballs would have allowed us to make more moves this year. The decision to drop Dareus with that price tag falls on this FO alone. Would have dropped the cap hit to 4.5 mil-ish. Managing personalities is part of the job of a coach. 6. A lot going on here. He didn’t hire Hue. He didn’t hire Rex. Other than that, we don’t know. His presser though. That was brutal. ? I can agree he was pretty good at scouting pro talent and did make some good trades and acquisitions of steet FA’s. I feel that at drafting he was average at best. He missed several times on high picks and got very poor ROI. His cap management was terrible. Overall I will say his strengths were pro personnel and scouting, but as a GM, he really wasn’t very good. It’s not surprise to me that he hasn’t been hired since the Bills moved on 2
Mango Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: He said Whaley didn’t draft any “impact players.” Name an impact player that he drafted. Also were they really better with Darby, Glenn, and Dareus on the roster? Didn’t the Bills make the playoffs last season? I took this as quality starters in the NFL: Tre White Dion Dawkins Matt Milano Karlos Williams- Karlos messed that one up. Ron Darby Robert Woods Marquis Goodwin Kiko Alonso Preston Brown Ross Cockrell- PFF grades him well 4 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: I can agree he was pretty good at scouting pro talent and did make some good trades and acquisitions of steet FA’s. I feel that at drafting he was average at best. He missed several times on high picks and got very poor ROI. His cap management was terrible. Overall I will say his strengths were pro personnel and scouting, but as a GM, he really wasn’t very good. It’s not surprise to me that he hasn’t been hired since the Bills moved on This is a fair take
formerlyofCtown Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 I think Whaley had coaches that were not his choice forced on him. I also believe Whaley wanted to take a QB in 2017 but was overruled. I know he was high on several of them Trubisky and Watson to name two. I have always suspected that Anthony Lynn was his choice for HC not McD. It was also evident from the beginning Rex was not his guy. 1 1
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: I think Whaley had coaches that were not his choice forced on him. I also believe Whaley wanted to take a QB in 2017 but was overruled. I know he was high on several of them Trubisky and Watson to name two. I have always suspected that Anthony Lynn was his choice for HC not McD. It was also evident from the beginning Rex was not his guy. It’s all speculation. I didn’t get the impression he wanted Anthony Lynn. Also who ever said he had coaches forced on him? Whaley has said the opposite in all of his media appearances. By most accounts in the media, Pegula had decided to move on from Whaley after the 2016 season. But he wanted to keep him in power until after the draft because he did all the scouting etc. What Terry should have done is fired Whaley with Rex. And allowed the new GM to decide what to do at QB. McDermott basically punted at QB, which might work out in the long run, but we don’t know
formerlyofCtown Posted January 2, 2019 Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, BillyWhiteShows said: It’s all speculation. I didn’t get the impression he wanted Anthony Lynn. Also who ever said he had coaches forced on him? Whaley has said the opposite in all of his media appearances. By most accounts in the media, Pegula had decided to move on from Whaley after the 2016 season. But he wanted to keep him in power until after the draft because he did all the scouting etc. What Terry should have done is fired Whaley with Rex. And allowed the new GM to decide what to do at QB. McDermott basically punted at QB, which might work out in the long run, but we don’t know Have you ever heard the term "saying all the right things"
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 2, 2019 Author Posted January 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Mango said: I took this as quality starters in the NFL: Tre White Dion Dawkins Matt Milano Karlos Williams- Karlos messed that one up. Ron Darby Robert Woods Marquis Goodwin Kiko Alonso Preston Brown Ross Cockrell- PFF grades him well This is a fair take You can’t give Whaley credit for the 2017 draft class. Nearly everyone reported that McDermott made the picks, and Whaley was fired days later. Take them off the list. The rest of your picks are competent starters. You’re also stretching a bit - Karlos Williams? Ross Cockrell? Come on. Again, these players are not impact players. The closest one is Robert Woods. Like I said above, he was average at best and I think the group you wrote down is very average. 2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Have you ever heard the term "saying all the right things" If that was the case and he was neutered and had coaches forced on him, then why did he stay? Why did he sign an extension after Rex was on board?
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