Bills fire OL Coach Juan Castillo

[Reader]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

The Bills had terrible talent as a whole along the offensive line (at least with Glenn injured), and Kromer got the very best out of what he had to work with. Castillo came in and immediately changed the scheme and it was a total disaster, which lasted two years. He never should have been hired, and if he was, he should not have tried to shove an ill-conceived scheme on inferior players.

 

It seems amazing how the "build around your players" strategy seems incredibly obvious in hindsight and yet so many of the Bills coaches seem to struggle with that. I think this is a reason why people speak highly of coaches like Schwartz, Lynn and Gailey. Who all seemed able to effectively scheme for either the offense or defense.

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Maybe that's one reason Castillo is gone.  Maybe he had a larger voice than we know in picking the FA acquisitions (as I think he had with Ducasse) and when it wasn't good, they were kind of like "we gave you the rope, you hung, you're gone".  I don't know.  Castillo is said to be very particular about technique and perhaps he grades guys on how well they fit his notion of good technique, vs how effective they are at actually road-grading the opposition.

 

I totally believe that Castillo was in complete control of the OL and run game.

He was first hired.  He survived the Dennison regime.

Juan had to be the go to guy for the OL and run game going into FA and draft last year.

Daboll was too new to know anything about the players other than some tape.  Heck, Daboll hadn't even met any players.

 

That being said it became quite obvious that the offense wasn't going to get a lot of help in the off season.

It was all D and getting Josh Allen.................but Castillo had to have a lot of input concerning Bodine and Newhouse.

Remember the big love fest about both of them being impressed with Castillo and wanting to come here because of him?

No one can deny Castillo's pig headed backing of Ducasse too.

They (Beane and McDermott) counted on Castillo to put together a serviceable OL/Run Game together with what he had and he failed.

 

Something more than lack of talent had to have happened for McDermott to let Juan go and it's performance based IMO.

Daboll is the "he bull" on offense now and I bet McDermott and Beane will be getting a lot of input from him as how to proceed this year.

 

 

[Billzgobowlin]

21 minutes ago, papazoid said:

TRADE  slightly overpaid TOP  15  LT  - Cordy Glenn

 

LOW  BALL $$ TOP 5 RG - Richie Incognito

 

UNEXPECTED RETIREMENT  TOP 10 C - Eric Wood

 

INJURED  RESERVE STARTING RT - Seantrel Henderson

 

GM replaces them all with crumbs

 

BLAME  COACH.....priceless

Glenn was already replaced last year, Incognito has become unglued so I don't think he would have helped this year.  Wood was a huge loss.  The fact of the matter is Kromer developed the line and Castillo allowed it to degrade.  There is turnover every year and Castillo was allowed to bring his own guys in like Ducasse.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

I concur...

as do I.

 

be smarter about contracts on fringe veterans like Ducasse and Mills.

 

 and at some point Bills need to trust the OC to build the Offense. McD and Frazier have made their statement on defense.
Hope Brian D has some prospects in mind from his recent stint with Alabama and it's competition : )

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I guess the way I look at it we wouldn't have Josh Allen becuase we used those two seconds to move up. Or I guess you could argue we wouldn't have Tremaine becuase we would have had to use that other first rounder. I'm not sure I would have given up a second for Paradis in a step back year. I certainly think we should spend the money on him now though. 

 

I agree that that upgrading the offensive line was not a priority last year. I think it is #1 this year. 

seems blatantly obvious. doesn't it ??

for me ?
they waited to get a QB to let Beane get in the building. even though they missed on some opportunity some will still harp upon : )

I think they brought in Brian Daboll with the same thinking. come in, see the lay of the land.that was last year.
present his vision and how to get there. That is this year.
give him the players and start with O line

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

And even if you like him (or Boettger for that matter), this team has too long operated under the assumption that unproven guys will be solid starters.  They need to approach things as though they don't know what they have.

 

I'd rather have too many players at guard than too few.

 

Amen.

 

Here's the thing: I'm only just now getting into the all-22 from the final game.  And where I am so far, is that I'm unable to tell if this is failure to set blocks appropriately for the play actually being run, failure to design a sufficiently flexible/appropriate scheme, or, failure to execute.

Here's 1st & 10 from Mia 41, 12:21 left in the 1st.  Let's count hats.  7 Bills to block.  4 Mia down lineman and 3 LB.  Works, right.

Look at #55.  Joseph Baker.  He's not exactly subtle.  He's heading for the backfield, run or pass.  Who's got him?

Erm, No One?  After the snap, the whole line and shady shift L. 

If the play were actually going to the L, no one blocking Joseph and now Harris might be NBD.  (but it's not)

Oh, wait!  Maybe DiMarco has him?  Now that there is like the "Mann Gulch Fire - A Race that Couldn't be Won".  Baker ran a 4.53 40 last spring.  DiMarco, 4.91 in 2011.  And BTW - what is Mills doing?  I woulda thought blocking 90, but he's looking West and 90's going East, so to speak.

Josh Allen's got him!  Yeah, that's Josh Allen's man to block!  Except wait, it was a pass play, and Allen's the QB.  Sack, loss of 9.

So is this whoever is calling the protections getting them AFU for what the Dolphins are showing before the snap and the play actually being run?

Or was the play designed for misdirection to the L, and they were counting on Baker to be misdirected, only the Dolphins didn't bite? <=bandit's vote

Did Allen change the play call at the LOS and somehow the line didn't get the memo?

 

"Out of sync" is a polite way to describe this.

 

Not to pick on one play, but watching film I saw this kind of thing Over.  and Over.  and Over.  again All Season Long.

 

Maybe our guys don't have the sheer physical ability to hold at the point of attack - I find that hard to evaluate, because more often than not this is the kind of thing I saw - a total CF with some linemen standing there wondering where's the guy he ought to block while meanwhile opponents are charging unblocked into our backfield,  feasting unabated on our QB.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Hapless Bills Fan
update for good answer

[Thriftygamer83]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Amen.

 

Here's the thing: I'm only just now getting into the all-22 from the final game.  And where I am so far, is that I'm unable to tell if this is failure to set blocks appropriately, failure to design a sufficiently flexible/appropriate scheme, or, failure to execute.

Here's 1st & 10 from Mia 41, 12:21 left in the 1st.  Let's count hats.  7 Bills to block.  4 Mia down lineman and 3 LB.  Works, right.

Look at #55.  Joseph Baker.  He's not exactly subtle.  He's heading for the backfield, run or pass.  Who's got him?

Erm, No One?  After the snap, the whole line and shady L

Oh, wait!  Maybe DiMarco has him?  Now that there is like the "Mann Gulch Fire - A Race that Couldn't be Won".  Baker ran a 4.53 40 last spring.  DiMarco, 4.91 in 2011.

And BTW - what is Mills doing?  I woulda thought blocking 90, but he's looking West and 90's going East.

Josh Allen's got him!  Yeah, that's Josh Allen's man to block!  Except wait, it was a pass play, and Allen's the QB.  Sack, loss of 9.

So is this whoever is calling the protections getting them AFU for what the Dolphins are showing before the snap?

Or was the play designed for misdirection to the L, and they were counting on Baker to be misdirected, only he Dolphins didn't bite? 

Did Allen change the play call at the LOS and somehow the line didn't get the memo?

 

"Out of sync" is a polite way to describe this.

 

Not to pick on one play, but watching film I saw this kind of thing Over.  and Over.  and Over.  again All Season Long.

 

Maybe our guys don't have the sheer physical ability to hold at the point of attack - I find that hard to evaluate, because more often than not this is the kind of thing I saw - a total CF with some linemen standing there wondering where's the guy he ought to block while meanwhile opponents are charging unblocked into our backfield,  feasting unabated on our QB.

We didn’t have a center who could call the blocking assignments.  Juan knew it and he worked with what he was given.  All we could hope for is that someone would come through or maybe they would make a splash with limited cap resources on the offensive line.  They didn’t make much of a splash and went for Star and Murphy who are rotational at best and Murphy is still unproven without performance enhancing drugs.  Even with injury Trent Murphy performed so far below expectations it was evident he was in McDermott’s dog house.  Star is a marginally adequate rotational tackle; who at times is prone to miscommunication and missing his gap and shade assignments. 

[thebandit27]

17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Amen.

 

Here's the thing: I'm only just now getting into the all-22 from the final game.  And where I am so far, is that I'm unable to tell if this is failure to set blocks appropriately, failure to design a sufficiently flexible/appropriate scheme, or, failure to execute.

Here's 1st & 10 from Mia 41, 12:21 left in the 1st.  Let's count hats.  7 Bills to block.  4 Mia down lineman and 3 LB.  Works, right.

Look at #55.  Joseph Baker.  He's not exactly subtle.  He's heading for the backfield, run or pass.  Who's got him?

Erm, No One?  After the snap, the whole line and shady L

Oh, wait!  Maybe DiMarco has him?  Now that there is like the "Mann Gulch Fire - A Race that Couldn't be Won".  Baker ran a 4.53 40 last spring.  DiMarco, 4.91 in 2011.

And BTW - what is Mills doing?  I woulda thought blocking 90, but he's looking West and 90's going East.

Josh Allen's got him!  Yeah, that's Josh Allen's man to block!  Except wait, it was a pass play, and Allen's the QB.  Sack, loss of 9.

So is this whoever is calling the protections getting them AFU for what the Dolphins are showing before the snap?

Or was the play designed for misdirection to the L, and they were counting on Baker to be misdirected, only he Dolphins didn't bite? 

Did Allen change the play call at the LOS and somehow the line didn't get the memo?

 

"Out of sync" is a polite way to describe this.

 

Not to pick on one play, but watching film I saw this kind of thing Over.  and Over.  and Over.  again All Season Long.

 

Maybe our guys don't have the sheer physical ability to hold at the point of attack - I find that hard to evaluate, because more often than not this is the kind of thing I saw - a total CF with some linemen standing there wondering where's the guy he ought to block while meanwhile opponents are charging unblocked into our backfield,  feasting unabated on our QB.

 

Looks like a PA designed to appear as a zone stretch to suck the safeties up.

 

If so, then every OLmen should be blocking whoever is in the gap to their left. If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap.

 

Which means that Jerome Baker is designed unblocked--you hope he pursues down the line on the play fake.

[3rdand12]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Amen.

 

Here's the thing: I'm only just now getting into the all-22 from the final game.  And where I am so far, is that I'm unable to tell if this is failure to set blocks appropriately, failure to design a sufficiently flexible/appropriate scheme, or, failure to execute.

Here's 1st & 10 from Mia 41, 12:21 left in the 1st.  Let's count hats.  7 Bills to block.  4 Mia down lineman and 3 LB.  Works, right.

Look at #55.  Joseph Baker.  He's not exactly subtle.  He's heading for the backfield, run or pass.  Who's got him?

Erm, No One?  After the snap, the whole line and shady L

Oh, wait!  Maybe DiMarco has him?  Now that there is like the "Mann Gulch Fire - A Race that Couldn't be Won".  Baker ran a 4.53 40 last spring.  DiMarco, 4.91 in 2011.

And BTW - what is Mills doing?  I woulda thought blocking 90, but he's looking West and 90's going East.

Josh Allen's got him!  Yeah, that's Josh Allen's man to block!  Except wait, it was a pass play, and Allen's the QB.  Sack, loss of 9.

So is this whoever is calling the protections getting them AFU for what the Dolphins are showing before the snap?

Or was the play designed for misdirection to the L, and they were counting on Baker to be misdirected, only he Dolphins didn't bite? 

Did Allen change the play call at the LOS and somehow the line didn't get the memo?

 

"Out of sync" is a polite way to describe this.

 

Not to pick on one play, but watching film I saw this kind of thing Over.  and Over.  and Over.  again All Season Long.

 

Maybe our guys don't have the sheer physical ability to hold at the point of attack - I find that hard to evaluate, because more often than not this is the kind of thing I saw - a total CF with some linemen standing there wondering where's the guy he ought to block while meanwhile opponents are charging unblocked into our backfield,  feasting unabated on our QB.

I watched the  same play from O side of the line during the game.
could not figure out if Allen was confused about protection. He sure looked surprised when he turn to face the field>
i have to admit i do like to beat that Dog Jordan Mills.
but that gotta be a wrong call. and perhaps Josh made it

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

We didn’t have a center who could call the blocking assignments.  Juan knew it and he worked with what he was given.  All we could hope for is that someone would come through or maybe they would make a splash with limited cap resources on the offensive line.  They didn’t make much of a splash and went for Star and Murphy who are rotational at best and Murphy is still unproven without performance enhancing drugs.  Even with injury Trent Murphy performed so far below expectations it was evident he was in McDermott’s dog house.  Star is a marginally adequate rotational tackle; who at times is prone to miscommunication and missing his gap and shade assignments. 

 

I think this is Hossenpfeffer.   Where did you get this notion?  Bodine was a 5th year vet at center.  He should absolutely be able to call protections. 

Groy is a 5th year vet with a previous half-season at C.

 

Politely put, if two different 5th year vets can't call blocking assignments, there's something wrong with the blocking assignments.

 

What the defensive personnel have to do with the topic of conversation is completely obscure to me. 

You may want a different thread.  Down the hall, 3rd door on the R.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

I watched the  same play from O side of the line during the game.
could not figure out if Allen was confused about protection. He sure looked surprised when he turn to face the field>
i have to admit i do like to beat that Dog Jordan Mills.
but that gotta be a wrong call. and perhaps Josh made it

 

The problem clearly goes beyond Jordan Mills.  If DiMarco was supposed to pick up the LB, he's on the wrong side of the formation for that. 

No way can he wait for Josh to drop back, run across the line, and get a position of leverage.

 

Something is wrong, either with what Allen called after the pre-snap motion, or with how the OL responded to it, or with the design of the play in coping with what the D showed.

 

Now on the very next play, you can see Mills get beaten like a drum, turning what looks like a fine big hole for McCoy into a possible tackle-for-loss McCoy has to spin away from.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Looks like a PA designed to appear as a zone stretch to suck the safeties up.

 

If so, then every OLmen should be blocking whoever is in the gap to their left. If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap.

 

Which means that Jerome Baker is designed unblocked--you hope he pursues down the line on the play fake.

 

That's a PA designed to get the QB sacked then, especially if there's film on that there play.  Baker ain't pursuing no fake no how.  Bad scheme.

 

Not sure I understand correctly how this applies to Mills:  "If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap"

Does that mean Mills assignment is actual Harris (90)?

[thebandit27]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's a PA designed to get the QB sacked then, especially if there's film on that there play.  Baker ain't pursuing no fake no how.  Bad scheme.

 

Not sure I understand correctly how this applies to Mills:  "If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap"

Does that mean Mills assignment is actual Harris (90)?

 

Yes and no.

 

Were it an actual run play, his assignment would be DL97, since that's who's in the play-side gap, so he has to show the play-side action to DL97 to sell the run. However, my guess is that he's supposed to kickslide back out to cut off DL90's route to the boot action. Tough job for him.

 

If I'm "blaming" anyone, I'd say that Allen should probably have gotten them out of that play with a kill call at the LOS--just go to the zone stretch run. But I don't remember down and distance, nor do I know the personnel set and audible options. In the very least he should've gotten DiMarco to the other side of the backfield pre-snap.

 

Keep in mind though: I'm making an educated guess about the play design.

Edited January 3, 2019 by thebandit27

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Yes and no.

 

Were it an actual run play, his assignment would be DL97, since that's who's in the play-side gap, so he has to show the play-side action to DL97 to sell the run. However, my guess is that he's supposed to kickslide back out to cut off DL90's route to the boot action. Tough job for him.

 

If I'm "blaming" anyone, I'd say that Allen should probably have gotten them out of that play with a kill call at the LOS--just go to the zone stretch run. But I don't remember down and distance, nor do I know the personnel set and audible options.

 

Keep in mind though: I'm making an educated guess about the play design.

 

 

I suspect there have been a number of blown up plays in every Allen game that would have been audibled out of by a veteran QB.

 

It's something of a credit to Daboll that there wasn't more in-season talk about whether Allen was allowed to or should have been audibling more.

[PIZ]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Looks like a PA designed to appear as a zone stretch to suck the safeties up.

 

If so, then every OLmen should be blocking whoever is in the gap to their left. If uncovered, he should turn back and double the backside gap.

 

Which means that Jerome Baker is designed unblocked--you hope he pursues down the line on the play fake.

 

I don't know your background, but you are obviously a very knowledgeable fan.  Thanks for the explanation.  I love this stuff.

 

 

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I suspect there have been a number of blown up plays in every Allen game that would have been audibled out of by a veteran QB.

 

It's something of a credit to Daboll that there wasn't more in-season talk about whether Allen was allowed to or should have been audibling more.

 

Oh I'm sure...just part of the equation with a rookie as green as Allen. Shoot, there are vet QBs who I'm 100% certain wouldn't make that check.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Yes and no.

 

Were it an actual run play, his assignment would be DL97, since that's who's in the play-side gap, so he has to show the play-side action to DL97 to sell the run. However, my guess is that he's supposed to kickslide back out to cut off DL90's route to the boot action. Tough job for him.

 

One of my beefs with the OL has been continuing with schemes they simply can not execute.  I don't think Mills has the agility to sell like he's blocking L then kickslide back to the R.  Not meaning to dump on Mills, who does some things well actually, but he just can't do that.

 

8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

If I'm "blaming" anyone, I'd say that Allen should probably have gotten them out of that play with a kill call at the LOS--just go to the zone stretch run. But I don't remember down and distance, nor do I know the personnel set and audible options. In the very least he should've gotten DiMarco to the other side of the backfield pre-snap.

 

Keep in mind though: I'm making an educated guess about the play design.

 

1st and 10.  21 set, heavy L.  Agree on DiMarco.

[thebandit27]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

One of my beefs with the OL has been continuing with schemes they simply can not execute.  I don't think Mills has the agility to sell like he's blocking L then kickslide back to the R.  Not meaning to dump on Mills, who does some things well actually, but he just can't do that.

 

 

1st and 10.  21 set, heavy L.  Agree on DiMarco.

 

That's a no-brainer kill call for me then (with the benefit of hindsight I mean). That's got to be part of their game plan too--I would bet a hefty sum that Daboll got in Josh's ear about that one.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I suspect there have been a number of blown up plays in every Allen game that would have been audibled out of by a veteran QB.

 

Fair.

 

OK so while I got your and Bandit's attention.  At the beginning of that play, there's obviously some kind of signal just before the snap.

Zay goes in motion crossing L to R, taking his man with him.  Allen raises both hands to his helmet. elbows sticking out, and looks at DiMarco.  DiMarco turns to look at Shady and makes the same gesture.  Best guess what that is signal for?

 

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

That's a no-brainer kill call for me then (with the benefit of hindsight I mean). That's got to be part of their game plan too--I would bet a hefty sum that Daboll got in Josh's ear about that one.

 

Well, Josh got some "immediate feedback" from the Phins for his decision

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair.

 

OK so while I got your and Bandit's attention.  At the beginning of that play, there's obviously some kind of signal just before the snap.

Zay goes in motion crossing L to R, taking his man with him.  Allen raises both hands to his helmet. elbows sticking out, and looks at DiMarco.  DiMarco turns to look at Shady and makes the same gesture.  Best guess what that is signal for?

 

 

Well, Josh got some "immediate feedback" from the Phins for his decision

 

Best guess without seeing: it's an adjustment by the backs based on man vs zone coverage