Bills fire OL Coach Juan Castillo

[ctk232]

16 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Super late to this after spending yesterday away from media, BUT NEW YEARS WISHES DO COME TRUE!!!!!!!!!! Or at least half wishes...Crossman next would be the icing but I will absolutely take this any day. Outstanding

[ndirish1978]

We need to invest major resources to the OL. We can get by at WR with one solid vet contributor and a rookie.

[T master]

16 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

It reaffirms my faith in McD as a good HC ! He's not afraid to make those decisions based on performance & to do it quickly !! 

 

And i don't understand is some here saying they don't understand the firing ? I don't know what else they need to see as far as the run game goes especially given what this says in the above picture ...

[ctk232]

1 minute ago, ndirish1978 said:

We need to invest major resources to the OL. We can get by at WR with one solid vet contributor and a rookie.

This being slightly tangential to your point, but considering we have at least two positions of need here (Center, Guard, and another Tackle along the OL), look for it to be filled in FA per Beane's strategy. I'd love to see Paradis and Saffold in a perfect world but would take either if not both. We could certainly do with picking up another Tackle in FA, and if we do end up drafting one as well, I'd love to see what Dawkins could do as a pulling Guard/Richie 2.0. Regardless, I would like to see our resources invested here first and foremost if we can make it happen. FA is fickle and no guarantees we land anyone at all.

 

To me, having the 9th pick is certainly interesting given his stated philosophies. He says he goes BPA in the draft, which is fine, but considering this year's strengths in BPA being defense do we pass up Jonah Williams if he falls to 9? Do we trade back hoping for top WR talent late in the 1st/early 2nd? Or do we go BPA with a DT, LB, or DB?

 

Would seem like we're getting a defensive guy if he stays true to his strategy.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Bill from NYC said:

The Bills have been hiring and firing offensive line coaches for years. In reality, if the Bills offensive line had talent it would be good. Simple but true. Remember when McNally was going to straighten out our problems up front? He was this respected OL coach but we in fact stayed the same or got worse.

 

The Bills have not ever devoted enough resources to the offensive line. They use most of their best picks on running backs and defensive backs. This is beyond dispute. Another coach will not help. We need to bring in talented players through free agency and early round picks, especially now while we are developing a talented young quarterback.

 

The Bills had a decent offensive line in 2015-2016, especially the latter, with Kromer as coach.  You don't have the #2 rushing attack in attempts but #1 in yards without having a good line, especially with McCoy as your feature back - he's a guy that needs an OL and he was ripping off 5.4 ypc, a career high for him.  The OL could have provided better pass protection, but a lot of the time the problem there was Taylor either taking too long, or flushing out of the pocket instead of stepping up into the passing lanes that were there.

 

I spent way too much time watching the Bills run plays on all-22 this year, and a lot of the time the problem was confusion.  And frankly, while it's not definitive, with Castillo as the OL coach, the Ravens OL had the same problem, and appeared better before and after.  If Castillo had lost Glenn all season, Wood, and Cog his first year, I would have been yeah, it's the personnel.

 

I'm personally much more interested in focusing on what the current regime does than in trying to rehash or debate OL for the Bills entire history, but Ballard-Hull-Richter-Wolford was a pretty good OL and mid-70s was pretty good, too.  With due respect, I think you're still salty over the last 20 years, and it's coloring your view.

 

My concerns about the current regime are that I felt more could have been done to improve the line in FA last year.  They knew Wood had to retire about a year ago today.  They knew they were drafting a rookie QB.  The list of guys available had some better guys on it than Bodine, some of whom signed for contracts we could have managed (Pouncey, for example, signed for 2 yr $15M with the Chargers and had a cap hit of $6.2M last year.  He played 16 games for the Chargers.).  Heck, we could have signed him and Bodine also.  Paradis signed with the Broncos for $2.9M.  The point is, folks here (and Beane, for that matter) act as though we couldn't possibly have done more due to salary cap.  No, you didn't do more because for some misbegotten reason you thought with Groy and Bodine you had done enough; it wasn't a priority.

 

That's the point that concerns me, he says it's a priority now, but what's his talent evaluation on OL really like?

[Dr. Who]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The Bills had a decent offensive line in 2015-2016, especially the latter, with Kromer as coach.  You don't have the #2 rushing attack in attempts but #1 in yards without having a good line, especially with McCoy as your feature back - he's a guy that needs an OL and he was ripping off 5.4 ypc, a career high for him.  The OL could have provided better pass protection, but a lot of the time the problem there was Taylor either taking too long, or flushing out of the pocket instead of stepping up into the passing lanes that were there.

 

I spent way too much time watching the Bills run plays on all-22 this year, and a lot of the time the problem was confusion.  And frankly, while it's not definitive, with Castillo as the OL coach, the Ravens OL had the same problem, and appeared better before and after.  If Castillo had lost Glenn all season, Wood, and Cog his first year, I would have been yeah, it's the personnel.

 

I'm personally much more interested in focusing on what the current regime does than in trying to rehash or debate OL for the Bills entire history, but Ballard-Hull-Richter-Wolford was a pretty good OL and mid-70s was pretty good, too.  With due respect, I think you're still salty over the last 20 years, and it's coloring your view.

 

My concerns about the current regime are that I felt more could have been done to improve the line in FA last year.  They knew Wood had to retire about a year ago today.  They knew they were drafting a rookie QB.  The list of guys available had some better guys on it than Bodine, some of whom signed for contracts we could have managed (Pouncey, for example, signed for 2 yr $15M with the Chargers and had a cap hit of $6.2M last year.  He played 16 games for the Chargers.).  Heck, we could have signed him and Bodine also.  Paradis signed with the Broncos for $2.9M.  The point is, folks here (and Beane, for that matter) act as though we couldn't possibly have done more due to salary cap.  No, you didn't do more because for some misbegotten reason you thought with Groy and Bodine you had done enough; it wasn't a priority.

 

That's the point that concerns me, he says it's a priority now, but what's his talent evaluation on OL really like?

This has been talked about before, but evaluation on offense is generally a problem. Wr, te, rb, oline -- I don't have a lot of confidence in these fellas. Daboll appears to have been right about Foster. Maybe he will have a good sense of the value of Jonah Williams. Anyway, I think they know more investment has to be made in offensive personnel, so hopefully they hit more than they miss.

[ctk232]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The Bills had a decent offensive line in 2015-2016, especially the latter, with Kromer as coach.  You don't have the #2 rushing attack in attempts but #1 in yards without having a good line, especially with McCoy as your feature back - he's a guy that needs an OL and he was ripping off 5.4 ypc, a career high for him.  The OL could have provided better pass protection, but a lot of the time the problem there was Taylor either taking too long, or flushing out of the pocket instead of stepping up into the passing lanes that were there.

 

I spent way too much time watching the Bills run plays on all-22 this year, and a lot of the time the problem was confusion.  And frankly, while it's not definitive, with Castillo as the OL coach, the Ravens OL had the same problem, and appeared better before and after.  If Castillo had lost Glenn all season, Wood, and Cog his first year, I would have been yeah, it's the personnel.

 

I'm personally much more interested in focusing on what the current regime does than in trying to rehash or debate OL for the Bills entire history, but Ballard-Hull-Richter-Wolford was a pretty good OL and mid-70s was pretty good, too.  With due respect, I think you're still salty over the last 20 years, and it's coloring your view.

 

My concerns about the current regime are that I felt more could have been done to improve the line in FA last year.  They knew Wood had to retire about a year ago today.  They knew they were drafting a rookie QB.  The list of guys available had some better guys on it than Bodine, some of whom signed for contracts we could have managed (Pouncey, for example, signed for 2 yr $15M with the Chargers and had a cap hit of $6.2M last year.  He played 16 games for the Chargers.).  Heck, we could have signed him and Bodine also.  Paradis signed with the Broncos for $2.9M.  The point is, folks here (and Beane, for that matter) act as though we couldn't possibly have done more due to salary cap.  No, you didn't do more because for some misbegotten reason you thought with Groy and Bodine you had done enough; it wasn't a priority.

 

That's the point that concerns me, he says it's a priority now, but what's his talent evaluation on OL really like?

I'd give this +2 upvotes if I could, though I do wonder about the above emboldened component. While I agree in retrospect that given the timeline of events, more could have been done to address the OL issues than just adding Bodine, do we know for a fact Beane didn't try to land more guys? I could easily see him saying Bodine is enough, after his most recent press conference and all the mentions of a "calculated approach" to the cap issue, and conceding that some of the issues this year were due entirely to his "calculated strategy in approaching the cap space issue." But do we know that he didn't offer other guys and just have them John Brown us, or sign with another team? Looking back, I'm also wondering who we might have signed that would've actually helped us for what we would pay for versus the crop of OL guys this year - I'd need to look into that more.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

I'd give this +2 upvotes if I could, though I do wonder about the above emboldened component. While I agree in retrospect that given the timeline of events, more could have been done to address the OL issues than just adding Bodine, do we know for a fact Beane didn't try to land more guys? I could easily see him saying Bodine is enough, after his most recent press conference and all the mentions of a "calculated approach" to the cap issue, and conceding that some of the issues this year were due entirely to his "calculated strategy in approaching the cap space issue." But do we know that he didn't offer other guys and just have them John Brown us, or sign with another team? Looking back, I'm also wondering who we might have signed that would've actually helped us for what we would pay for versus the crop of OL guys this year - I'd need to look into that more.

 

Well, we don't know of course.  It's possible Beane was burning up the phone lines to the agents of Paradis and Pouncey and they said "my guy's not interested" and that was that.  But usually, if a guy comes in for a workout and/or is offered, the rumor mill lets us know.  If nothing else, the agents spread the word as it drives up the guy's value.

 

That's why I say I feel he could have done more last year, certainly at the key position of center.

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

That's why I say I feel he could have done more last year, certainly at the key position of center.

 

The lack of responsibility shown whilst mishandling nearly every position on offense over the past two years makes me think that McDermott has significant say in Beane's personnel decisions.

 

Other than drafting Allen, the QB position has been completely/embarrassingly botched.  WR, TE, OL, RB .... also handled terribly.

 

It's no coincidence that the defense has gotten far better attention.  That's going to need to change quickly.

[Socal-805]

17 hours ago, NickelCity said:

 

In what world do you get the impression that the Bills front office thinks Castillo was entirely to blame for the OLine? He was a step down from Kromer, and we need talent. No one is claiming otherwise with regard to the latter. 

 

 

They have not addressed the O-line so far in 2 seasons.  Show me some talent.

 

 

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, we don't know of course.  It's possible Beane was burning up the phone lines to the agents of Paradis and Pouncey and they said "my guy's not interested" and that was that.  But usually, if a guy comes in for a workout and/or is offered, the rumor mill lets us know.  If nothing else, the agents spread the word as it drives up the guy's value.

 

That's why I say I feel he could have done more last year, certainly at the key position of center.

Maybe it’s just me but it seemed like Groy did pretty well while Wood was injured that partial year. Perhaps they thought they were fine. 

[GG]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, we don't know of course.  It's possible Beane was burning up the phone lines to the agents of Paradis and Pouncey and they said "my guy's not interested" and that was that.  But usually, if a guy comes in for a workout and/or is offered, the rumor mill lets us know.  If nothing else, the agents spread the word as it drives up the guy's value.

 

That's why I say I feel he could have done more last year, certainly at the key position of center.

 

Paradis wasn't really available in FA.  He signed the tender that carried a 2nd round draft pick as comp.  Even though the money was at bargain basement levels, Beane was not parting with the 2nd rounder and the QB not in the fold yet.   With Pouncey, I have to believe that it was more of a "process: issue than anything else.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

The lack of responsibility shown whilst mishandling nearly every position on offense over the past two years makes me think that McDermott has significant say in Beane's personnel decisions.

 

Other than drafting Allen, the QB position has been completely/embarrassingly botched.  WR, TE, OL, RB .... also handled terribly.

 

It's no coincidence that the defense has gotten far better attention.  That's going to need to change quickly.

 

I don't know if that's right, Gugny. 

 

What I'm afraid of is it's really Beane and his team and their player personnel evaluation on offense just sucks or is MIA - like, did they really watch Benjamin or have a couple scouts not from CAR watch Benjamin's routes and effort and grade him out, or was it "I know him, former 1st rounder, let's get'er done"?  did they really watch Coleman and network with contacts inside the Browns facility to get the gouge on him, or was it "former first rounder, bring him in, we'll pay $3.5M for a chance to evaluate him once he's here"

 

If it's the result of a conscious decision like "we're going to focus all the hosses on defense and QB this offseason and just give the offense the few brain cycles we have left over" I'd actually feel better about it, though with a rookie QB I have to say that's kind of a questionable conscious decision.

[Capco]

Is it likely that a new OL coach is hired before any personnel decisions are made?

[Socal-805]

32 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

I'd give this +2 upvotes if I could, though I do wonder about the above emboldened component. While I agree in retrospect that given the timeline of events, more could have been done to address the OL issues than just adding Bodine, do we know for a fact Beane didn't try to land more guys? I could easily see him saying Bodine is enough, after his most recent press conference and all the mentions of a "calculated approach" to the cap issue, and conceding that some of the issues this year were due entirely to his "calculated strategy in approaching the cap space issue." But do we know that he didn't offer other guys and just have them John Brown us, or sign with another team? Looking back, I'm also wondering who we might have signed that would've actually helped us for what we would pay for versus the crop of OL guys this year - I'd need to look into that more.

 

 

 

+ 2

 

 

[Gugny]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't know if that's right, Gugny. 

 

What I'm afraid of is it's really Beane and his team and their player personnel evaluation on offense just sucks or is MIA - like, did they really watch Benjamin or have a couple scouts who had not worked with him, watch Benjamin's routes and effort and grade him out, or was it "I know him, former 1st rounder, let's get'er done"?  did they really watch Coleman and network with contacts inside the Browns facility to get the gouge on him, or was it "former first rounder, bring him in, we'll pay $3.5M for a chance to evaluate him once he's here"

 

If it's the result of a conscious decision like "we're going to focus all the hosses on defense and QB this offseason and just give the offense the few brain cycles we have left over" I'd actually feel better about it, though with a rookie QB I have to say that's kind of a questionable conscious decision.

 

I think you helped make my point more clearly than I did, Hap.  

 

McDermott naturally has a better eye for defense than offense.  All HCs lean one way or the other, obviously.  My concern (as you stated better than I tried to) is that neither Beane (and his team) NOR McDermott has an eye for evaluating talent for key positions on offense.

 

Like you, I hope it was just part of the "process," and they consciously focused on the defense this year/getting their QB - even though it was a pretty risky plan.

 

I guess we shall see.

[ctk232]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, we don't know of course.  It's possible Beane was burning up the phone lines to the agents of Paradis and Pouncey and they said "my guy's not interested" and that was that.  But usually, if a guy comes in for a workout and/or is offered, the rumor mill lets us know.  If nothing else, the agents spread the word as it drives up the guy's value.

 

That's why I say I feel he could have done more last year, certainly at the key position of center.

Good points, and I certainly agree; definitely feels like more could have been done. I'm just always curious exactly how much a GM/FO does to resolve x issue or y position need, versus the ultimate outcome, as does everyone. But I understand we can never really know until way after the fact if at all.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Maybe it’s just me but it seemed like Groy did pretty well while Wood was injured that partial year. Perhaps they thought they were fine. 

 

He did do pretty well, but he was in-between 'Cog and Miller in Kromer's scheme.  Different scheme, different guards, expect different result.  And I think if one looked carefully it was clear he was not a natural center.

[Misterbluesky]

18 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

It's only been a few days and we already got better for the '19 season.