Beast Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Please see my post above on this topic. Right. I read it but just don’t believe that coaches getting fired is because of skin color. I just don’t. And, I’ll say again, if someone feels an owner or GM is racists, they should come out and say that, not speak in general terms. Edited January 1, 2019 by Binghamton Beast
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Thought so. Tell us why Jerry Jones is a racist? This should be good..... I could be wrong, but I don't think this will be a productive line of discussion to continue. I do think it's worth asking, when there's an overwhelming majority of black players, why there are so few black assistant coaches and even fewer of them go on to become coordinators and then HC? Is it a meritocracy? Or is there something else going on - maybe not overt racism, but a sort of "old boys network" or "guy I just click with" filter in place? (Would Russ Brandon have coached Anthony Lynn behind the scenes, what bottle of wine to buy and bring to the Pegulas? But I digress...) This is a pretty good article on the topic if you're interested: https://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/11/nfl-black-coaches/ 1
Trogdor Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Thought so. Tell us why Jerry Jones is a racist? This should be good..... No matter what I say you're going to disagree. It's not even worth the time. Keep fighting the good fight though. You have a lot of anger clearly. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: I got ya. Yeah I agree. And if Bidwill got antsy then he should have completely cleaned house, not just fire the black coach. Keim has been collecting a paycheck off the back of Arians’ efforts down there for 6 years now. The guy is a stooge. Ex-Act-O-Mondo. If Bidwell got out a broom and swept the lot of them out of there, it would cause less raised eyebrows. 2
Beast Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Trogdor said: No matter what I say you're going to disagree. It's not even worth the time. Keep fighting the good fight though. You have a lot of anger clearly. You are good at labels, huh?
LABILLBACKER Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 Last I checked the win/loss column could care less about skin color.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Right. I read it but just don’t believe that coaches getting fired is because of skin color. I just don’t. Very likely it is not explicitly because of skin color, but would you acknowledge that it's rare for a HC to be fired after 1 year? When casual observers such as myself can say "man, their player personnel just sucked" would you agree that it's rare for the HC to be fired after 1 year but the GM (who has other issues) to be left in place? Now maybe, as someone else said, Wilks was just drowning down there, over his head, and everyone in the clubhouse knew it, and he had to go. Or maybe, he was not afforded the same input into player personnel or the same time to implement his system that another coach might have received, and then it's fair to ask "why?" I don't know enough to know which is the case, but I'm not going to make an ubiquitous statement that I just don't believe race had a thing to do with it, because I don't know.
Orlando Buffalo Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 This conversation is so odd to me- if you as a player think a team is racist then do not sign with them. I would not sign with a racist team and i am white. Any team that fires someone for any other reason than performance will quickly be an also ran.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: You just get tired of the same race BS over and over after a while. Almost getting used as a crutch anymore. Believe me, you don't get nearly as tired of it as those whose skin color doesn't let them put it aside.
Watkins90 Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 Marvin Lewis coaches for 16 years in one place. Hue Jackson got a third season after going 1-31. Case closed.
Beast Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: Very likely it is not explicitly because of skin color, but would you acknowledge that it's rare for a HC to be fired after 1 year? When casual observers such as myself can say "man, their player personnel just sucked" would you agree that it's rare for the HC to be fired after 1 year but the GM (who has other issues) to be left in place? Now maybe, as someone else said, Wilks was just drowning down there and everyone in the clubhouse knew it, and he had to go. Or maybe, he was not afforded the same input into player personnel or the same time to implement his system that another coach might have received, and then it's fair to ask "why?" I don't know enough to know which is the case, but I'm not going to make an ubiquitous statement that I just don't believe race had nothing to do with it, because I don't know. Sure it’s rare.....but I’m not in the building and I’m sure white coaches have been canned after a year as well. My whole point is that is race involved? I doubt it but then again, I don’t know for sure. What I do know is these guys that got fired were also hired. I’m just not buying that an owner of a billion dollar franchise wouldn’t want what is best for their team.
BillyWhiteShows Posted January 1, 2019 Author Posted January 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, see, here's the challenging thing and I'll say it once and then STFU and ya'll can go on and run with it. Everyone has their preconceptions. Everyone tends to be most comfortable with people who fit their preconceptions, people who strike them as "someone like me". Having been in a position to interview and to make decisions about hiring people, and having seen decisions above me being made, I can say that overt discrimination "I don't think she can do the job because, woman" or "I don't think he can handle it, because, black" is very rare nowadays. What happens is that guys in hiring positions have their ideas, maybe unstated or unspoken ideas about what different people are like, maybe based on their own narrow experience. One guy, a senior VP at my place of employment at the time, once told me he was very surprised to see the results of a study that said the women on averae tested scored higher on organizational skills and ability to multitask because his wife couldn't manage either. His perception (maybe unstated to himself) was that men are better at those skills. Just naturally and without any intent at conscious bias, he was going to carry that perception into his hiring and assignment processes. The Rooney rule, and other affirmative action strategies, exist not because minorities can't win the job on their own merit, but because in an "old boys club" atmosphere, they will NOT be "gift wrapped interviews" and given the opportunities that guys who fit the preconceptions and comfort level of people doing the hiring. I don't like them because I view it as too little, too late. And if they result in people being hired, but not being given the same support and opportunities that others get, they're misguided. But that's why they exist. Jim Trotter has been very outspoken on the issue. Here is his 2 cents on the Rooney rule. Again I do see his point:
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Buffalo Timmy said: This conversation is so odd to me- if you as a player think a team is racist then do not sign with them. I would not sign with a racist team and i am white. Any team that fires someone for any other reason than performance will quickly be an also ran. C'mon man. You can't possibly be as naive as this sounds. Players don't choose their teams for the first 4 years of their careers. They get drafted. You sign with the team that drafts you or makes you an offer, or you sit home on your a**. There are plenty of teams that are also-rans. They just may be hiring and firing people for reasons other than performance.
LSHMEAB Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Believe me, you don't get nearly as tired of it as those whose skin color doesn't let them put it aside. There isn't a emoji positive enough for this post. The thread itself is going down the tubes.
Mr Wild Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 AA coaches record when fired (minus Marvin Lewis) 21-50-1 AA coaches career record when fired ( minus Marvin Lewis) 48-118-1 AA coaches record this year who kept job 21-10-1 AA coaches career records who kept jobs 146-77-1 Marvin Lewis- 131-122-3, 0-7 in playoffs, no playoffs for 3 years, 2nd longest tenured coach at 16 years
klos63 Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, JoPar_v2 said: It ain’t like Koetter got that long in Tampa. And he had to deal with an apathetic, terrible fanbase and an absolute manchild, criminal franchise QB who alienated his teammates and got himself suspended. Where’s the pity for good ol’ Dirk? Don't feel too much pity, looks like he just got an OC job in Atlanta. Not out of work too long. 1
BringBackOrton Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: I congratulate Burleson. He states his point of view nicely, and he's entitled to his view of the situation. I don't know any of these situations nearly well enough, but people have to at least ask questions when black coaches are hired and fired in a year. There's no way it's fair to expect a guy to turn things around in one year. On the other hand, it may have been completely clear inside the clubhouse that he was in over his head. It happens. If he's over his head, there's a good chance he's drowning. Under those circumstances sometimes you just have cut him loose and try to save the ship. Okay. Ask why they were fired. The answer? They were ***** coaches.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Watkins90 said: Marvin Lewis coaches for 16 years in one place. Hue Jackson got a third season after going 1-31. Case closed. Again, I don't want to keep going here, but this is so freakin' naive that it rots my knickers. Two examples of men of color who got good or even excessive opportunities, does NOT mean there's a level, race-blind playing field for assistant coaches moving to coordinators or coordinators moving to HC. If the hiring process is truly race-blind and just the experience of playing and the desire to coach, we would predict a lot more black men coaching football at all levels. Here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24588089 1
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 playing the race card, that's always nice. say hello to anthony lynn how about they were fired for incompetence, not color of their skin.
Orlando Buffalo Posted January 1, 2019 Posted January 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: C'mon man. You can't possibly be as naive as this sounds. Players don't choose their teams for the first 4 years of their careers. They get drafted. You sign with the team that drafts you or makes you an offer, or you sit home on your a**. There are plenty of teams that are also-rans. They just may be hiring and firing people for reasons other than performance. So you do not think players would avoid racist teams on their second and third contract? Your point on the draft while valid ignores how much control a player has later in his career over his destination. With the exception of Wilks- who i have no idea about- the other fired coaches all deserved it. If players start avoiding Arizona as a free agent destination i will believe it.
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