Updated: Steelers open to trading Antonio Brown - Rooney sees it hard bringing him back

[Alphadawg7]

12 hours ago, dabills21 said:

Obsess much?! Thought this forum wasn't supposed to call out people...maybe I'm mistaken.

 

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong (if he's dealt) but last I checked he's still a Pittsburgh Steeler...stay tuned and enjoy the long offseason

 

I was simply just reminding you why it was foolish to talk in absolutes about something that hasn't happened, and that it was even more silly to run around challenging everyone to bets to prove your predictive might. 

 

Funny, no one here said he would for sure be traded, we just entertained its possible.  That in turn prompted you to go after people suggesting it could happen while you ranted its impossible and would bet anyone who dared not share the same conclusive stance.

 

You got back from me what you were giving out.  He may or may not get traded.  And if he does not get traded, that does not mean it was "impossible".  Just means they need to find a trade offer both sides can agree too...and its also still possible Steelers find a way to mend the situation internally and elect to keep him instead.  Lots can still happen in this situation still...but I think its pretty safe to say to call any outcome "impossible" is silly at this point, and even sillier to challenge everyone to an Internet duel...aka bets...over it.

[Alphadawg7]

Step 1:  Bills trade down in the first and pick up an extra 2nd.

Step 2:  Draft TE Fant in the First after the trade down.

Step 3:  Trade Bills 2nd round pick, and our 3rd for Antonio Brown (or even Julio).

Step 4:  Use our 2nd round pick on BPA, likely OL, RB, WR, CB.

 

Essentially, our overall cost for Antonio is essentially just our 3rd and a small trade down in the 2nd (given we would still have a 2nd rounder from our first round trade down).  And honestly, if in this scenario the Steelers insisted on both 2nd's (ours plus the one we picked up) then I would do it as well as again, net cost of AB would really just be our current 2nd round pick.

 

We likely would have also signed at least one FA WR to go along with recent signing of Williams (which I liked).  

 

Enter Camp with:

QB - Allen

TE - Fant

WR1 - Brown (or Julio)

WR2 - Foster

WR3 - FA (like Humphries) we sign or Zay/Williams

WR4 - Zay/Williams

WR5 and WR6 - McKenzie and some other young guy.

 

And quite honestly, Williams feels like a strong wild card who could potentially contend for WR2 and Foster could be a WR3 slot weapon.  Now you got speed on the outside in Brown with a guy with a big catch radius in Williams and Foster torching people from the slot.  But before anything, we need to see Williams show some of that potential on an NFL field where he is starting from a stand still position each snap.

[freddyjj]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Step 1:  Bills trade down in the first and pick up an extra 2nd.

Step 2:  Draft TE Fant in the First after the trade down.

Step 3:  Trade Bills 2nd round pick, and our 3rd for Antonio Brown (or even Julio).

Step 4:  Use our 2nd round pick on BPA, likely OL, RB, WR, CB.

 

Essentially, our overall cost for Antonio is essentially just our 3rd and a small trade down in the 2nd (given we would still have a 2nd rounder from our first round trade down).  And honestly, if in this scenario the Steelers insisted on both 2nd's (ours plus the one we picked up) then I would do it as well as again, net cost of AB would really just be our current 2nd round pick.

 

We likely would have also signed at least one FA WR to go along with recent signing of Williams (which I liked).  

 

Enter Camp with:

QB - Allen

TE - Fant

WR1 - Brown (or Julio)

WR2 - Foster

WR3 - FA (like Humphries) we sign or Zay/Williams

WR4 - Zay/Williams

WR5 and WR6 - McKenzie and some other young guy.

 

And quite honestly, Williams feels like a strong wild card who could potentially contend for WR2 and Foster could be a WR3 slot weapon.  Now you got speed on the outside in Brown with a guy with a big catch radius in Williams and Foster torching people from the slot.  But before anything, we need to see Williams show some of that potential on an NFL field where he is starting from a stand still position each snap.

While Bills may trade down I cannot see them using 1st Rd Pick on a TE.  Especially on the 2nd best TE coming out of Iowa per some scouts.

Neither do I see this management trading 2 picks in top 75 for a 31 year old malcontent who drew lines in the sand with a future HOF QB.  What would AB do to Allen if he felt dissed?  

Beane has already stated their philosophy.  Build through the draft and retain your own.  Look where they have made draft investments.  This year could be OT, WR, Edge, DT and CB.  They will draft at expensive positions and sign FAs at the less expensive positions C, OG, TE, LB IMHO.  

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

While Bills may trade down I cannot see them using 1st Rd Pick on a TE.  Especially on the 2nd best TE coming out of Iowa per some scouts.

Neither do I see this management trading 2 picks in top 75 for a 31 year old malcontent who drew lines in the sand with a future HOF QB.  What would AB do to Allen if he felt dissed?  

Beane has already stated their philosophy.  Build through the draft and retain your own.  Look where they have made draft investments.  This year could be OT, WR, Edge, DT and CB.  They will draft at expensive positions and sign FAs at the less expensive positions C, OG, TE, LB IMHO.  

 

I get your point, however, I don't feel as concerned about AB in terms of his personality or attitude as many others do. I think McD can handle him if he was a Bill.  As far as Fant, admittedly, I dont know enough to really make a case for him or not other than keep seeing him as top TE in draft.  I just think the FA group of TE is not all that great and they may look at the draft to find one.  

 

I was just showing how we could add Brown (or Juiio) and not risk too much of our current draft capital to do so by maybe picking up an asset in a trade down. And we very well could go OL in a trade down too, I just picked Fant as I see the FA TE group as poor while I think there are plenty of guys they could add in FA to shore up the OL better.  

 

Personally, I dont expect us to be in on the AB trade if it goes down, was just showing a way to get a done and keep the risk lower.  I do agree that the most likely scenario is to sign some FA guys and draft one.  If we take a WR in the first, the guy I want is Metcalf.  

[wppete]

TE, Noah Fant is going to be a stud in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

[ctk232]

On 1/5/2019 at 11:54 AM, formerlyofCtown said:

I really liked Rudolph coming out of the draft.  I actually believe they already have Ben successor in him.

They also wisely drafted Rudolph's number one guy from OK State in James Washington - also liked him as a WR option. If they get rid of Ben and AB - they could very well transition right back into the same thing with Rudolph/JuJu/Washington.

[dezertbill]

On 12/31/2018 at 1:39 PM, BrotherChazz said:

Get er done Beane!

Stay far far away.  

 

Selfish WR who will be turning 31 next season.  Alienated his team mates.  Locker room cancer. It’s all about him.  

 

Ill pass. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Haha.  Do Bills think Brown would be happy in Buffalo playing with Josh Allen?  That has complete disaster written all over.  It would be like the bizarro worse version of the Steelers. 

 

As talented as he is, I wouldn’t touch him.  Dude is a problem and only cares about himself.  As Ryan Clark said, money made him a monster.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Haha.  Do Bills think Brown would be happy in Buffalo playing with Josh Allen?  That has complete disaster written all over.  It would be like the bizarro worse version of the Steelers. 

 

As talented as he is, I wouldn’t touch him.  Dude is a problem and only cares about himself.  As Ryan Clark said, money made him a monster.

Allen would punch his face for being a whiny girl.

 some one else really wants him and he would be put to better use.

Jerry Jones ha a history of turning players around ..........

[dabills21]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Step 1:  Bills trade down in the first and pick up an extra 2nd.

Step 2:  Draft TE Fant in the First after the trade down.

Step 3:  Trade Bills 2nd round pick, and our 3rd for Antonio Brown (or even Julio).

Step 4:  Use our 2nd round pick on BPA, likely OL, RB, WR, CB.

 

Essentially, our overall cost for Antonio is essentially just our 3rd and a small trade down in the 2nd (given we would still have a 2nd rounder from our first round trade down).  And honestly, if in this scenario the Steelers insisted on both 2nd's (ours plus the one we picked up) then I would do it as well as again, net cost of AB would really just be our current 2nd round pick.

 

We likely would have also signed at least one FA WR to go along with recent signing of Williams (which I liked).  

 

Enter Camp with:

QB - Allen

TE - Fant

WR1 - Brown (or Julio)

WR2 - Foster

WR3 - FA (like Humphries) we sign or Zay/Williams

WR4 - Zay/Williams

WR5 and WR6 - McKenzie and some other young guy.

 

And quite honestly, Williams feels like a strong wild card who could potentially contend for WR2 and Foster could be a WR3 slot weapon.  Now you got speed on the outside in Brown with a guy with a big catch radius in Williams and Foster torching people from the slot.  But before anything, we need to see Williams show some of that potential on an NFL field where he is starting from a stand still position each snap.

I am still taking the stance that AB remains in Pittsburgh, but would like to think it would probably take more than a 2nd and a 3rd or even 2 2nds to land him.  You think that's all it would take?

[NoSaint]

10 hours ago, Rob's House said:

He'll be 31 when the season starts. He may play for another 4-5 years, but the odds are against him being a premier receiver for more than another year or 2.

 

Someone who thinks they're a WR away from the SB probably would offer more, & I would not outbid them. I'd rather take a chance on a top prospect (like his brother AJ) who may be part of a dynasty than an old man who won't be around in a few years.

 

Flip side- now is the time that you can add 1-2 of those guys that you don’t intend to keep long term. 

 

All those times we said “how the hell do they keep adding pieces” and now we get to be that team. That could be brown or green or julio or von Miller or.... 

 

we are that team in that window. We are the rams, or the bears or the chiefs.

Edited January 8, 2019 by NoSaint

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Flip side- now is the time that you can add 1-2 of those guys that you don’t intend to keep long term. 

 

All those times we said “how the hell do they keep adding pieces” and now we get to be that team. That could be brown or green or julio or von Miller or.... 

 

we are that team in that window. We are the rams, or the bears or the chiefs.

 

 

Yep.

 

Also worth noting that if you Billieve that Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds will both be superstars.........you will need a big chunk of change to re-sign them at the same time........so it's not the worst thing to not have another first rounder to sign to a similar contract the following offseason.

 

One of the upsides of drafting EJ and using up two first rounders on Sammy was future cap space............which is part of that big chunk of change that McBeane have in their back pocket now.

 

It's not good to have busts in the first round but even in that case there is a sliver lining wrt cap space.

 

Give me Julio and his 100 yard per game potential for a few seasons while the strong armed young QB is developed and I'll take my chances with not having the ninth pick in the 2019 draft at my disposal for the next 4 seasons. 

 

 

[Rob's House]

47 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Flip side- now is the time that you can add 1-2 of those guys that you don’t intend to keep long term. 

 

All those times we said “how the hell do they keep adding pieces” and now we get to be that team. That could be brown or green or julio or von Miller or.... 

 

we are that team in that window. We are the rams, or the bears or the chiefs.

I'd rather do that with a FA, but you make a fair point. I suppose we could be a lot closer than we think, and if that's the case we may be better off getting the big time receiver now and worrying about his replacement later.  It would be interesting to see how teams try to contain the speed of Foster & Brown while accounting for Allen's running ability.

 

The jaded Bills fan in me worries that he'd be here through the mediocrity and then decline when we need him to peak, but maybe he could be part of creating a culture of winning in Buffalo.

 

Badol's point about the cap is well taken too. I still don't know that I'd give up a first for him, but I could live with it.

 

 

 

[stuvian]

On 12/31/2018 at 5:04 PM, Gugny said:

Tomlin (who I like very much) has lost this team.

it certainly appears so. Hard to believe after all the success but their standards are pretty high

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, dabills21 said:

I am still taking the stance that AB remains in Pittsburgh, but would like to think it would probably take more than a 2nd and a 3rd or even 2 2nds to land him.  You think that's all it would take?

 

Yeah he still very much could definitely remain a Steeler.  Steelers can reduce the dead cap hit by $14m if they trade him after June 1st.  But he will likely fetch even less if he does because teams will have already gone FA and Draft so the market will be even smaller.

 

But if he does get traded before the draft, I dont think he is gonna fetch what people think.  I think the Steelers would take a 2nd and another pick or player.  AB has a big contract, is 30, and obviously has a rep problem which creates a discount right now too.  

 

Not a lot of teams will have the ability or luxury to trade for him, so I think there will be less suitors for him than people think.  That gives the negotiation edge to the other team or teams interested.  

 

He could also still fetch at least a first, I mean his talent is worth it, will just come down to how bad someone wants him and if they feel he helps them contend. But this is also a very deep WR draft, so I don’t know teams are gonna pay top value for him.

 

I have a feeling he can be had for a 2nd and a player/pick.  Gonna be interesting to watch it all playout.  If I’m the Steelers I would prefer to keep AB and replace Tomlin instead personally who I think is over rated.

[dabills21]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah he still very much could definitely remain a Steeler.  Steelers can reduce the dead cap hit by $14m if they trade him after June 1st.  But he will likely fetch even less if he does because teams will have already gone FA and Draft so the market will be even smaller.

 

But if he does get traded before the draft, I dont think he is gonna fetch what people think.  I think the Steelers would take a 2nd and another pick or player.  AB has a big contract, is 30, and obviously has a rep problem which creates a discount right now too.  

 

Not a lot of teams will have the ability or luxury to trade for him, so I think there will be less suitors for him than people think.  That gives the negotiation edge to the other team or teams interested.  

 

He could also still fetch at least a first, I mean his talent is worth it, will just come down to how bad someone wants him and if they feel he helps them contend. But this is also a very deep WR draft, so I don’t know teams are gonna pay top value for him.

 

I have a feeling he can be had for a 2nd and a player/pick.  Gonna be interesting to watch it all playout.  If I’m the Steelers I would prefer to keep AB and replace Tomlin instead personally who I think is over rated.

Can't agree more with your last sentence.  Hard to think the Steelers were at home watching week 1 of the playoffs with all their talent

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, dabills21 said:

Can't agree more with your last sentence.  Hard to think the Steelers were at home watching week 1 of the playoffs with all their talent

 

Yeah it’s crazy really.  98% chance to make playoffs in week 11.  They were very “Billsy” in how they screwed the pooch and found the 2% way to miss the playoffs over the final 5 weeks.

 

Bottom line though, the AB situation didn’t cause them to miss playoffs, I mean they still won.  They lost the playoffs over several weeks, and that’s on Tomlin IMO.  

[FearLess Price]

21 hours ago, Dopey said:

And he was far from a locker room headache. Nor did he sleep with Mark Kelso's fiance. Nor did he pout when he didn't get "enough touches". IMO, AB is not worth it.

 

Agree. Im not putting that drama in my locker room. Ive worked hard to build a culture, im not gonna piss it away for a great WR who can't play QB.

[CSBill]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Step 1:  Bills trade down in the first and pick up an extra 2nd.

Step 2:  Draft TE Fant in the First after the trade down.

Step 3:  Trade Bills 2nd round pick, and our 3rd for Antonio Brown (or even Julio).

Step 4:  Use our 2nd round pick on BPA, likely OL, RB, WR, CB.

 

Essentially, our overall cost for Antonio is essentially just our 3rd and a small trade down in the 2nd (given we would still have a 2nd rounder from our first round trade down).  And honestly, if in this scenario the Steelers insisted on both 2nd's (ours plus the one we picked up) then I would do it as well as again, net cost of AB would really just be our current 2nd round pick.

 

We likely would have also signed at least one FA WR to go along with recent signing of Williams (which I liked).  

 

Enter Camp with:

QB - Allen

TE - Fant

WR1 - Brown (or Julio)

WR2 - Foster

WR3 - FA (like Humphries) we sign or Zay/Williams

WR4 - Zay/Williams

WR5 and WR6 - McKenzie and some other young guy.

 

And quite honestly, Williams feels like a strong wild card who could potentially contend for WR2 and Foster could be a WR3 slot weapon.  Now you got speed on the outside in Brown with a guy with a big catch radius in Williams and Foster torching people from the slot.  But before anything, we need to see Williams show some of that potential on an NFL field where he is starting from a stand still position each snap.

 

A good theory, but until you fix the o-line, none of that matters. Fix the o-lin, the running game and passing game get better with no addtions. Start at the core and build out, not in the opposite direction.

[Dr. Who]

4 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

A good theory, but until you fix the o-line, none of that matters. Fix the o-lin, the running game and passing game get better with no addtions. Start at the core and build out, not in the opposite direction.

Best option is to use free agency to fix the line, but because of supply-demand ratios and competition with lots of cap space as well, it's a tricky situation. (I think you could get a guard, center, and RT this route. I don't see a LT that would allow you to kick Dawkins to LG where he may thrive best.) I agree the line has to be the priority, but it's not impossible to significantly improve the trenches and skill players in one offseason.