Dion Dawkins to RT?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Did Cordy Glenn help Cincinnati all that much? I know Philly won a super bowl without Peters.

 

What sunk Cincinnati this year was having Dalton IR'd week 13 and Jeff Driskel instead of Nick Foles as their backup.

Losing AJ Green in Week 8 and effectively onward was also a huge blow.

 

The Bengals significantly improved their offense, decreased their QB sacks and hurries substantially (about 25-30%), and improved their run game, so yeah, Glenn helped.

 

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Yes, OL is important, but no single OL position is anywhere near as important as QB, so trading Glenn makes sense if it means filling the most important position in sports for a decade. 

 

Beane did what he thought he had to do to get his QB.  But I don't think we should soft-pedal the loss.

 

We need two NFL level tackles.  Right now we possibly have one, Mills willingness to take it to Alonso not withstanding.

[Rockinon]

I just want guys who can stop the unbelievably quick penetration every time the ball is handed off to a RB.  The number of times that a RB was stuffed the very second he got the ball this year just blows my mind. It would also be nice if a hole opened up once in a while.  The OL all season has been blown up on running downs too much. Fixing the run game is exactly what Josh Allen needs.  Give Allen some help on 1st and 2nd down with some positive yds and there will be no stopping the offense. I have no doubt that management is looking to correct the problem. Maybe a LT and move Dawkins, but I think the other side of the OL, starting with the center is where the big problems exist. Maybe just fixing those spots is a more direct and simpler path.

[JohnC]

16 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

FWIW, the organization really liked Donovan Smith back in 2015. He's a FA left tackle 

There is going to be a tremendous demand for offensive linemen this offseason. We are going to be vying with almost half the teams that need players on that unit. Houston and Jacksonville are two teams that come to mind that would be willing to open their wallets to upgrade their lines. Without question Houston wants to better protect their most valuable asset in Watson. Bringing in a quality LT who can play the position better than Dawkins (who I thought had a down year) is going to be a big challenge. I can see us adding a more reasonably priced  guards, center and RT to fortify our line. 

[thebandit27]

56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What sunk Cincinnati this year was having Dalton IR'd week 13 and Jeff Driskel instead of Nick Foles as their backup.

Losing AJ Green in Week 8 and effectively onward was also a huge blow.

 

The Bengals significantly improved their offense, decreased their QB sacks and hurries substantially (about 25-30%), and improved their run game, so yeah, Glenn helped.

 

 

Beane did what he thought he had to do to get his QB.  But I don't think we should soft-pedal the loss.

 

We need two NFL level tackles.  Right now we possibly have one, Mills willingness to take it to Alonso not withstanding.

 

I don't disagree, but glossing over the fact that Glenn was traded in order to acquire a QB was a massive oversight.

 

We found Glenn with a 2nd rounder, Dawkins with a 2nd rounder, and Peters as a UDFA. Finding a LT shouldn't be a heavy lift is all.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

I just want guys who can stop the unbelievably quick penetration every time the ball is handed off to a RB.  The number of times that a RB was stuffed the very second he got the ball this year just blows my mind. It would also be nice if a hole opened up once in a while.  The OL all season has been blown up on running downs too much. Fixing the run game is exactly what Josh Allen needs.  Give Allen some help on 1st and 2nd down with some positive yds and there will be no stopping the offense. I have no doubt that management is looking to correct the problem. Maybe a LT and move Dawkins, but I think the other side of the OL, starting with the center is where the big problems exist. Maybe just fixing those spots is a more direct and simpler path.

 

Yes.  And the OL, while better in pass protection, has not given Allen the time he needs to play the deep ball game very well, much of the time.

 

I spent probably too much time analyzing every run play in about 8 games this season, early on and then mid-season.  Haven't gotten to late season yet.

 

The way we run blocked definitely evolved through the season, but it all seemed to be driven by the fundamental fact that we didn't have the Hosses who could win 1:1 in the trenches much of the time, let alone get to the next level and pancake someone.    The refs seemed to have the memo, and every time we did manage to pull off a good run play, the laundry went flying as they were on the alert for the holds.

 

Daboll started the season with a lot of dependence on movement and cut blocks.  To put it nicely, those seemed to affect our OLmen far more than they affected defenders.  Either we were confused, or we were simply ineffective and the blocks resulted in our OLmen sprawled on the ground while defenders hurdled them to tackle for loss or chase Josh around like a headless chicken. 

 

Where we were more effective, is either running Ivory straight up the gut and counting on him to take defenders with him for 2-3 yds, or straightforward blocking schemes that put in extra blockers, but Daboll took about 4 games (and I think an ultimatum from McDermott after the Packers game) to focus on this.

 

The Titans game was interesting in that it used misdirection with the TE and FB to achieve successful run blocking and that continued to be a theme. 

 

The problem is, when your run game depends upon 22 or 13 personnel and you can't pass effectively out of that set, after a game or two is on film it's like flashing a neon sign at your opponent "run play coming!"

 

 

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

There is going to be a tremendous demand for offensive linemen this offseason. We are going to be vying with almost half the teams that need players on that unit. Houston and Jacksonville are two teams that come to mind that would be willing to open their wallets to upgrade their lines. Without question Houston wants to better protect their most valuable asset in Watson. Bringing in a quality LT who can play the position better than Dawkins (who I thought had a down year) is going to be a big challenge. I can see us adding a more reasonably priced  guards, center and RT to fortify our line. 

 

Looking at the known FA, I see pretty slim pickins at all those positions, is the challenge.

 

The other issue for those who say "maybe Beane would prefer vets on the line", is that Castillo is well-known as a coach who is 'my way or the highway' for technique.  "Cog had an interview where he said as much.  That's one of the reasons Miller had a seat to Ducasse last year, he was said to be slow to pick up the specific techniques Castillo wanted.  So bringing in a great vet who has been succeeding using his techniques, will be of lesser effectiveness if Castillo remains and insists that they relearn everything his way.  That inevitably slows a player down.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

Looking at the known FA, I see pretty slim pickins at all those positions, is the challenge.

 

The other issue for those who say "maybe Beane would prefer vets on the line", is that Castillo is well-known as a coach who is 'my way or the highway' for technique.  "Cog had an interview where he said as much.  That's one of the reasons Miller had a seat to Ducasse last year, he was said to be slow to pick up the specific techniques Castillo wanted.  So bringing in a great vet who has been succeeding using his techniques, will be of lesser effectiveness if Castillo remains and insists that they relearn everything his way.  That inevitably slows a player down.

I said this in a prior post so I apologize for the redundancy. A football analyst on the radio was talking about coaching in the NFL and said he felt the most important coach on a team was the OL coach. He said they were at a premium and got paid accordingly. I'm not impressed with any coach who has a "my way or the highway" mentality to coaching. Or another way of saying it is I'm not impressed with Castillo. What the good coaches do is not straitjacket players to fit their philosophy but adjust their methods to maximize the talents of the players they have to work with. As you highlighted Castillo doesn't have that required trait. He's not a good and smart teacher! He is a McDermott hire and a McDermott mistake. Cronyism is often a detriment to success.  

[Rufridr101]

Left guard arms are short

[par73]

He is not good as a tackle, so I'd try him inside.

[thebandit27]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes.  And the OL, while better in pass protection, has not given Allen the time he needs to play the deep ball game very well, much of the time.

 

I spent probably too much time analyzing every run play in about 8 games this season, early on and then mid-season.  Haven't gotten to late season yet.

 

The way we run blocked definitely evolved through the season, but it all seemed to be driven by the fundamental fact that we didn't have the Hosses who could win 1:1 in the trenches much of the time, let alone get to the next level and pancake someone.    The refs seemed to have the memo, and every time we did manage to pull off a good run play, the laundry went flying as they were on the alert for the holds.

 

Daboll started the season with a lot of dependence on movement and cut blocks.  To put it nicely, those seemed to affect our OLmen far more than they affected defenders.  Either we were confused, or we were simply ineffective and the blocks resulted in our OLmen sprawled on the ground while defenders hurdled them to tackle for loss or chase Josh around like a headless chicken. 

 

Where we were more effective, is either running Ivory straight up the gut and counting on him to take defenders with him for 2-3 yds, or straightforward blocking schemes that put in extra blockers, but Daboll took about 4 games (and I think an ultimatum from McDermott after the Packers game) to focus on this.

 

The Titans game was interesting in that it used misdirection with the TE and FB to achieve successful run blocking and that continued to be a theme. 

 

The problem is, when your run game depends upon 22 or 13 personnel and you can't pass effectively out of that set, after a game or two is on film it's like flashing a neon sign at your opponent "run play coming!"

 

 

 

Looking at the known FA, I see pretty slim pickins at all those positions, is the challenge.

 

The other issue for those who say "maybe Beane would prefer vets on the line", is that Castillo is well-known as a coach who is 'my way or the highway' for technique.  "Cog had an interview where he said as much.  That's one of the reasons Miller had a seat to Ducasse last year, he was said to be slow to pick up the specific techniques Castillo wanted.  So bringing in a great vet who has been succeeding using his techniques, will be of lesser effectiveness if Castillo remains and insists that they relearn everything his way.  That inevitably slows a player down.

 

I think the guard position has enough volume in FA and the trade market to fill two spots if they want to; OT and C are bigger issues for me in terms of availability.

 

I would be fine trading mid round picks for vets whose current teams find them overpriced. I immediately think of Kelechi Osemele and Jason Peters. Osemele had a down year, but was the best guard in football under Castillo in Baltimore, and Gruden hates his own players. Peters is 36, has a team option on his contract, and the Eagles are in a very tight cap crunch--plus they managed to win a super bowl without him, so they'd probably listen.

 

If you could get both guys for a 3 and a 4, would you do it? Go into free agency with Dawkins-Osemele-Bodine-Teller-Peters as the worst-case scenario starting 5?

Edited January 1, 2019 by thebandit27

[Kmart128]

Well if we draft a LT which I think is most likely scenario at 9 for us then I'd imagine Dion is going back to RT

[SCBills]

There’s a reason why guys like Jordan Mills start at OT, and it’s not just for us.  Most lines are average, meaning 2 or 3 good players and 2 or 3 bodies.  Some are bad, like ours, and some are good, like Dallas, Indy etc.  

 

We HAVE to fix the interior if we want any semblance of a run game.  Teller is fine, and has potential, but I’d throw $$$ at the best C & G available in FA.  

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by SCBills

[Laughing Coffin]

It's no surprise he had a down year playing along side Ducasse/Teller over when he was playing alongside Incognito.  Bills need to draft/sign 2 starting OL this offseason, maybe 3.

[Bills Oil Company]

LT - Little (First Rd Pick - I'm not drafting someone who projects better as a guard in the 1st Rd such as Jonah Williams)

LG - Dawkins

C - Paradis (Free Agent - Overpay and get back stability) 

RG - Teller

RT - D. Williams (Free Agent) 

 

The above line has a chance to be really good and stay together for awhile. 

[GunnerBill]

21 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Much better at LT than RT imo. If anything he kicks inside and Wyatt/FA goes to RG.

 

This.

[MrEpsYtown]

46 minutes ago, Rufridr101 said:

Left guard arms are short

 

Are you talking about Dawkins? He's got 35 inch arms, which are considered long. Under 33 inches are guards. Typically anything under 34 inches scares front office people. 

[BeastMode54]

I apologize if this has been discussed in other threads, but I don't think LT is a huge area of need as I've been reading various threads. I do not think Dawkins is an elite LT, but more than above average. You have to take his complete work into account. Most thought he was the answer at LT until this year. The difference? Not having a Pro Bowl guard next to him. Now that's not saying he can only be great with an elite guard next to him, but someone who gets the job done. I feel like once Teller got in there, the less I started to notice Dawkins "faults". That being said, I think if we can somehow get Paradis and Williams in FA, our line as a whole will be greatly improved and Dawkins will shine again.

[WMDman]

Agreed, I think the loss of Richie really impacted his play

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I said this in a prior post so I apologize for the redundancy. A football analyst on the radio was talking about coaching in the NFL and said he felt the most important coach on a team was the OL coach. He said they were at a premium and got paid accordingly. I'm not impressed with any coach who has a "my way or the highway" mentality to coaching. Or another way of saying it is I'm not impressed with Castillo. What the good coaches do is not straitjacket players to fit their philosophy but adjust their methods to maximize the talents of the players they have to work with. As you highlighted Castillo doesn't have that required trait. He's not a good and smart teacher! He is a McDermott hire and a McDermott mistake. Cronyism is often a detriment to success.  

 

what can I say, John.  We often disagree, but when you're Right, you're Right.

[Spiderweb]

22 hours ago, CNYfan said:

Drafted as a RT, but Cordy got hurt so they moved him in.   Did pretty well last year but struggled at times this year.  Low Grade LT, might be nice at RT

Has anyone a memory? In his rookie year preseason, he played rather poorly at RT. It was hoped he would push Mills to the bench but he was outplayed by Mills by a decent margin. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him moving to RT, but I have my doubts.

[Chicken Boo]

22 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

For those who want Jonah Williams if he is available, he projects better to RT

 

Put me in the crowd that against drafting a RT/G inside the top 10, unless it's the final piece to round out the group.