Josh Allen final numbers

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Peter said:

 

They do if we are comparing one QB's performance to another.

 

It is funny how you responded to my post where I wrote that I was excited to see what Josh could do, but you somehow want to inoculate Josh from any comparison to our prior "franchise" QB.

It wasn't particularly at you and I didn't mean to offend you. It is just that I have read so many posts where the stats of some other QB are compared to Allen. Allen has a different skill set, a different personality structure, plays for different coaches under different schemes, with different players around him, and under different circumstances from game to game (even play to play) than any other QB. How any other QB did really doesn't offer any meaningful perspective in regard to Allen.

 

However, if you are intent on doing that, then why did you choose a QB who failed - rather than one who went on to succeed?

[Bing Bong]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I wanted Mayfield too but Josh will be the better of the two because of his physical abilities and intelligence.

 

 

 

I mean Baker's tied Manning and Wilson's rookie TD record and looks awesome. But I like the enthusiasm!

[Peter]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

It wasn't particularly at you and I didn't mean to offend you. It is just that I have read so many posts where the stats of some other QB are compared to Allen. Allen has a different skill set, a different personality structure, plays for different coaches under different schemes, with different players around him, and under different circumstances from game to game (even play to play) than any other QB. How any other QB did really doesn't offer any meaningful perspective in regard to Allen.

 

However, if you are intent on doing that, then why did you choose a QB who failed - rather than one who went on to succeed?

 

Please re-read my post.  I think my emphasis was that I am excited to see what he can do and that there was enough good this past year to be excited.  I also said that McBeane did him no favors and that the kid is easy to root for.  I hope you agree that we all would like to see some growth in his game.  Yesterday's game (but for that one pass for example) is a game we would like to see more of as opposed to some of the others.

 

At the same time, I also think it is important to have some perspective.  EJ's stats a provide particularly relevant comparison for Bills fans.  As an aside, I was not an EJ hater like some on this board.  If one looks at the stats of the two QBs without the names, I wonder what conclusions one would draw.

[Chicken Boo]

As long as he keeps improving and Beane puts weapons around him he'll be just fine.

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Peter said:

 

Please re-read my post.  I think my emphasis was that I am excited to see what he can do and that there was enough good this past year to be excited.  I also said that McBeane did him no favors and that the kid is easy to root for.  I hope you agree that we all would like to see some growth in his game.  Yesterday's game (but for that one pass for example) is a game we would like to see more of as opposed to some of the others.

 

At the same time, I also think it is important to have some perspective.  EJ's stats a provide particularly relevant comparison for Bills fans.  As an aside, I was not an EJ hater like some on this board.  If one looks at the stats of the two QBs without the names, I wonder what conclusions one would draw.

I really like what I have see from Allen. I think he has much room for improvemet and I am excited as well to see what they do in the offseason and how much he improves next year. I truly have no problem with your post other than the comparison. With all due respect, we just disagree. I was not an EJ hater either; however, I do not believe what EJ did (or any other QB for that matter) is relevant or offers any kind of perspctive or insight into how much or how little success Allen will have in the future.There just are not enough common variables between Allen and any other QB to draw any legitimate conclusions..

[zow2]

I said it about Vick & Tyrod to an extent.. and you can say it about Allen and Lamar Jackson as well.  I feel like QBs that run so effectively,... their yardage should almost be attributed to their passing numbers.  In other words, If Allen throws for 197 yards and runs for 100, that's really equivalent to about 300 yards..   So is that much different than Luck throwing for 300yds but running for zero?  I'm not saying Allen is Luck, but the passing numbers for JA will look minuscule in comparison but he's really moving the football effectively.  Casual fans reading just stats won't see that.

 

Now on the flip side,  we all know QBs that run that much eventually need to settle down.  Maybe they get 3-4 years of running wild and then they will have to become better from the pocket... and they should with experience.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I said it about Vick & Tyrod to an extent.. and you can say it about Allen and Lamar Jackson as well.  I feel like QBs that run so effectively,... their yardage should almost be attributed to their passing numbers.  In other words, If Allen throws for 197 yards and runs for 100, that's really equivalent to about 300 yards..   So is that much different than Luck throwing for 300yds but running for zero?  I'm not saying Allen is Luck, but the passing numbers for JA will look minuscule in comparison but he's really moving the football effectively.  Casual fans reading just stats won't see that.

 

Now on the flip side,  we all know QBs that run that much eventually need to settle down.  Maybe they get 3-4 years of running wild and then they will have to become better from the pocket... and they should with experience.

 

Is history really in Allen’s side for him to improve as a passer from the pocket?

 

49% in Junior College

56% in College

52.8% in NFL (Rookie Season)

 

I think Buffalo needs to keep the Defense Top 3 and get as much out of Allen in his first contract before the legs go.

 

maybe buffalo can have 49ers/Kap like run with Allen before it happens.

[cle23]

28 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I mean Baker's tied Manning and Wilson's rookie TD record and looks awesome. But I like the enthusiasm!

 

He broke the TD record in 2.5 less games.

[Bing Bong]

4 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

He broke the TD record in 2.5 less games.

Yeah. He's has an exceptional year. Jury's obviously still out on their careers but Baker's far ahead of Allen based on his performance this year.

 

Gave a very good Ravens defense and overall team a high scoring game down to the wire.

 

And talking about leadership and intangibles we see in JA and Baker's got it in spades. Teammates love him. Dude bleeds.. ugly orange and Brown Browns colors.

Edited December 31, 2018 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[zow2]

10 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

Is history really in Allen’s side for him to improve as a passer from the pocket?

 

49% in Junior College

56% in College

52.8% in NFL (Rookie Season)

 

I think Buffalo needs to keep the Defense Top 3 and get as much out of Allen in his first contract before the legs go.

 

maybe buffalo can have 49ers/Kap like run with Allen before it happens.

 

He doesn't seem overwhelmed out there in the least bit so I think it can improve as he gets more comfortable.  But yeah, if he cannot get his completion % up, he will have to make up for it by continuing to move the chains with his legs.  That's OK for now, but as you said,,,, down the road the legs will get a few miles on them and defenders coming out of college will only get faster.   

Edited December 31, 2018 by zow2

[Dr. Who]

25 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

Is history really in Allen’s side for him to improve as a passer from the pocket?

 

49% in Junior College

56% in College

52.8% in NFL (Rookie Season)

 

I think Buffalo needs to keep the Defense Top 3 and get as much out of Allen in his first contract before the legs go.

 

maybe buffalo can have 49ers/Kap like run with Allen before it happens.

Or maybe like Steve Young or John Elway, he'll be a dual threat for a long, successful career.

[Nanker]

28 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

He doesn't seem overwhelmed out there in the least bit so I think it can improve as he gets more comfortable.  But yeah, if he cannot get his completion % up, he will have to make up for it by continuing to move the chains with his legs.  That's OK for now, but as you said,,,, down the road the legs will get a few miles on them and defenders coming out of college will only get faster.   

Probably so. But a LOT of posters here make such a big deal about the QB completion percentage stat.

In Jim Kelly's years as a Bill his completion percentages were as follows:

1986 59.4 (With Andre Reed, Pete Metzelaars, Chris Burkett, and Jerry Butler as his receivers)

1987 59.7

1988 59.5

1989 58.3

1990 63.3

1991 64.1

1992 58.2

1993 61.3

1994 63.6

1995 55.7

1996 58.6

 

His completion % Lifetime in Buffalo was 60.1

Josh's for 2018 was 52.8 while playing with hands of stone and unmotivated receivers.

 

I'm feeling pretty good about Josh's chances for improvement. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Gordio said:

I am a guy that prides myself on watching a lot of college football.  I was against the Allen pick.  I would of took Rosen.  With that being said, after watching Allen play this year, I will admit I was wrong.  Allen's physical attributes are off the chart.  There is no other way to explain it.   He needs to clean up his short game a bit.  But that will come.  Just watching Boomer & Gio & they both said this guy's attitude is ridiculous.  3rd & 22, he is going to throw a missle 40 yards down the field.  Sims was on there & he said that he reviewed all of Allen's senior year.  He threw 12 screen passes all year.  Mayfield he said threw 88.  We got our guy, get him some weapons build up the defense a bit & we should be in for a fun ride next year.

 

I watch a lot of college football to, GO BUCKS, and during 2016 & 2017 i watched several of Allen's Wyoming games on late night espn broadcasts.  And the guy was just mesmerizing to watch.  Some of the throws I saw him make were unbelievable and the way he moved around behind the LOS was always fun to watch.  I actually made it a point to catch these late night Wyoming games because they were so much fun to watch.  Allen just seemed different to me.   Yea, it was often chaotic but after a day of up tempo, robotic short controlled passing offenses, it was fun to watch mayhem in action.

 

I remember thinking "wouldn't it be cool if the Bills took Allen as a project in the 3rd or 4th round"?  Then he started to move up the draft board as he wowed the pro scouts and next thing I know he's taken at #7 by the Bills!  The first thing I do is come over to 2BD to see the reaction and the "wrong" Josh folks were out in force bashing the pick mercilessly.  But I got what the Bills were doing here - it was a risk but I could see they were swinging for the home run aware of what  this kids upside could be.  All the while they knew that the bottom could drop out on this pick.  And given the utter frustration over the last 20 years, this was the moment to swing for the fences and they did. 

 

And for sure the story isn't over.  Allen could regress next year or he may never get better.  But on the other hand there is every reason to believe that we're on the cusp of seeing something very special blossom at QB for Buffalo.  At the very least the next couple of years will be fun to watch! 

[ctk232]

17 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Also in games he started and finished he had a won/loss record of 5 - 5.  Which is pretty decent.

 

I'm to lazy to look up all the numbers from before & after his injury (I'll do it latter) but didn't he have 2 TDs/5 INTs before the injury and then throw 8 TD's/7 INT's after?  That's a big improvement.  I bet his sack rate also went way down after the injury. 

Beyond the face value of stats (which are always grain of salt conversations regardless) - the biggest pieces to be concerned about are how they demonstrate his growth from beginning to end of the season, not so much on the end results overall.

 

I would like to look more at the other rookies this year, but taking the offensive systems into consideration, I would say Allen has shown the greatest progression and development since he first started, and especially within the context of how little he had to work with. While not identical, I feel the Jets and Bills situations were similar enough this year, but I don't know that I saw the same development from Darnold that we saw from Allen this year. 

 

Anything can happen and to call anything now before we get through next season would be ridiculous, but I'm comfortable saying Allen has shown more development and growth than I personally expected to see in one season given the supporting cast, and it gives me more hope for the future as a result. Also gives me hope for Daboll as an OC here if he is deserving of any of the credit, as well as having Barkley and Anderson to help if similarly deserving.

 

 

[Jay_Fixit]

The injury (allowing him to sit and watch for weeks) plus the additions of Anderson and Barkley definitely seemed to help his development.

 

He was a completely different QB when he came back.

[Troll Toll]

I just did some quick math based on taking his stats post injury and projecting them to a 16 game season.

 

3300 yards passing

1200 yards rushing

35 TDs (rushing and passing combined)

 

Pretty impressive play from Josh...

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

Is Baker not intelligent? He's been audibling and changing plays for weeks now, and actually re-huddled the team a few weeks ago after seeing the defense and essentially drew up a play in huddle that scored a TD.

 

Allen is definitely more physically gifted, and has impressed me a lot this year, but don't act like he is definitely more football intelligent.

 

Allen looked great yesterday,  but that was the 1st game that I thought he looked like a good/great passer. So much of his success before that was based off of running, which never lasts for any QB. 

 

i new somebody would take it this way.

 

Yes Baker is intelligent but With Allen's physical abilities AND his intelligence will make him a better QB. Im basically say ing Allen isnt one of those guys who will just rely on his athleticism to get by.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I mean Baker's tied Manning and Wilson's rookie TD record and looks awesome. But I like the enthusiasm!

 

New name again lol. Just go with Allen is the GOAT.

 

 

[Bill Murray]

Also keep in mind the tons of drops his WRs had.  A number of third and longs were dropped over the back 6 weeks.  Clay dropped a 40 yard TD at the end of the first Miami game.

 

i think his numbers don’t really tell the story.  He is a playmaker.  If he gets surrounded by some more playmakers, this offense could be electric.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Bill Murray

[cle23]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

i new somebody would take it this way.

 

Yes Baker is intelligent but With Allen's physical abilities AND his intelligence will make him a better QB. Im basically say ing Allen isnt one of those guys who will just rely on his athleticism to get by.

 

 

 

That's fair then. I feel like Baker is way ahead as a passer, but obviously Allen has the running ability and size. I feel like Baker will always be a better passer. Allen can make up some of that will his running as long as he doesn't get injured a lot.