Zay Jones: The numbers show that he is a #2.

[MrEpsYtown]

He's not worth the drops. If he doesn't fix that, he will be out of the league. Guys like TO dropped the ball a lot, but you could deal with it becuase he made game breaking a plays. A guy with 50 catches is just not worth it. Also he isn't making any contested catches at all and has made a good amount of catches in garbage time. 

 

I want to trade him the the Chargers for Forrest Lamp...disappointing second round pick for disappointing second round pick. 

[Thurman#1]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

In what world? 

 

There is absolutely nothing special about Zay Jones. He's inconsistent, gets no separation and drops way too many balls. 

 

 

Your observations there are subjective.

 

More to the point, he's a second year guy coming from a small school. He was likely to require time. Turns out he did. He started very slow this year due to the injury but has performed quite a bit better after getting healthy.

 

I didn't claim that he was going to be a #1 or anything. But the stats show he's already producing at a rate that makes him a #2. With poor and very inconsistent QB passing play and not much of a run game to take the pressure off the pass game.The lack of talent on this offence holds all offensive performance down.

 

So the answer to your question is this, Scott ... In what world does Zay look like he'll prove to be good value at that spot? In this world. As his QB play gets better, as he learns and improves, there's a good chance it will happen in this very world. Great value? I didn't say that. 

[Thurman#1]

22 minutes ago, WIDE LEFT said:

I question whether Jones is even a 3. He simply cannot separate when faced with man coverage. The Pats played mostly man last week, with Gilmore on Foster and their other DB on Zay. Predictably, Zay did nothing ( until garbage time) Yes he can find a seam or breakdown in zone, but that’s not good enough.When you are that limited as a WR, you better make up for it with great hands and the ability to make tough catches. He does neither, and has dropped more balls recently than he has caught.

Most troubling is his tendency to shrink in the most critical parts of the game. In tight games and big moments he consistently fails to come up with catches that most WR can make routinely. A good guy and hard worker yes. But it takes more than that to produce in the NFL. Over the last month, Jones has virtually disappeared from Bills offense

 

 

 

 

In the last four games, which are 26.66% of the 15 games we've played, Zay has caught 29.9% of his yardage (167 of 559 yards) and 60% of his TDs (3 of 5). How is that "virtually disappeared from Bills offence"? It's increasing his production.

 

Oh, and I don't know where Gilmore was every play or anything like that. But I do know Stephon was covering Zay on the incompletion in the first drive of the 3rd quarter, the incompletion at 11:00 in the 4th, and the completion at 4:37 in the 4th. 

[JoPar_v2]

Pretty sure Zay was drafted to be a solid #2 receiver? He’s on his way to becoming one. So not sure what the problem is. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

Unfortunately the majority those balls were caught during garbage time

 

....and unfortunately with some of our patented blowouts, "garbage time" was the ONLY thing available.............

[Jpsredemption]

He should be fighting for a roster spot next year. That's how he's played.

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, The Bills Blog said:

At 50 receptions, he's at #44 among WRs. That puts him clearly in the #2 WR camp. I think we've seen that he can't cut it when teams play him like a 1, but he should be good as a 2.

 

Its a terrible metric, but ok.

 

at some level soooomeone is going to catch passes. Even a historically bad passing offense is going to complete a few hundred passes. That zay has been healthy and a starter makes it hard not to get 40 catches. Frankly, as a healthy starter he should be much higher

Edited December 29, 2018 by NoSaint

[Prickly Pete]

The only conversation I want to have about Zay Jones is "where can we find someone to push him down the depth chart?".

Edited December 29, 2018 by OJ Tom

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nonsense. There's almost always someone better you could have picked. Picks aren't judged as to whether you got the best possible guy in hindsight. They're judged by whether you got good value. Looks like Zay will turn out to be good value at that spot. 

At this point trading up to get Zay Jones when they could have had Juju or Kupp is a disaster.

 

1. Zay isn’t half as good as those guys.

 

2. They traded up to get him..

[BillyWhiteShows]

33 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....and unfortunately with some of our patented blowouts, "garbage time" was the ONLY thing available.............

 

Not really.... there were several tight games and Zay rarely made a play or only had a few catches. 

 

I would also be curious to see how many of those catches came in the 4th quarter when the game was already out of reach.  

 

Just trying to provide context 

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, The Bills Blog said:

At 50 receptions, he's at #44 among WRs. That puts him clearly in the #2 WR camp. I think we've seen that he can't cut it when teams play him like a 1, but he should be good as a 2.

 

Stats are unreliable and misleading, especially in football.

 

The only thing #2 about Zay are his crappy hands, crappy route running, crappy attempts at contested catches, and crappy attempts at getting separation.  

 

 We are in trouble if Zay is still the #2 WR next year.  He is not good enough, and thats where watching the games comes into play. Against Detroit and NE, he was not only ineffective, but he was completely dominated like he didn't belong in the league by his opposing corners.  He cant get off the line, he gets manhandled and pushed off his routes, and is easily taken out of games.  He gets a lot of production in garbage time or on broken plays where its hard for DB's to keep holding coverage while a QB is extending the play and running around.

 

Even in his dubbed "breakout" game, he still only had 4 catches for less than 70 yards.  Yes he had 2 TD's, but he also had multiple drops and failed to make some key plays.  It wasn't exactly a great game despite the 2 TD's, both of which were exceptional plays and throws by Allen.  

 

Bottom line, he doesn't excel at anything.  But when there are few other options, he will compile some stat totals out of lack of other options, doesn't make him a good #2.  I was a defender of his potential, but man seeing him this year has convinced me that we are in trouble if he is our #2 WR week 1 next year.  I dont even want him as a #3 either.  

 

We need to add 3 WRs IMO this offseason,  I would keep Foster and McKenzie and get rid of Zay.  I would try and add 2 vets and 1 rookie and let them all battle for the top 4 spots with Foster and have McKenzie as a WR5 and ST guy and maybe keep Ray Ray as developmental 6th WR or take one later in draft..  There are plenty of quality vets and this is a DEEP WR draft, so if we pass on a WR in round 1, there will still be a good one in round 2 for us to go after. 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Happy]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

 

Captain hindsight emerges!

 

Probably so.  How many on this board have the player college evals and knowledge that the coaches, GMs, and scouts have on draft day?  Do you?  Doubt it.  Hindsight is pretty much what we have in absence of professional scouting reports, not the stuff that the Mel Kipers and Mike Mayocks of the world put out.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

Not really.... there were several tight games and Zay rarely made a play or only had a few catches. 

 

I would also be curious to see how many of those catches came in the 4th quarter when the game was already out of reach.  

 

Just trying to provide context 

 

....sure he's a HUGE risk at 2019 cost of $1.081 mil....or we could pay Sammy like numbers ($16 mil) for the same production...oh wait, he's injured AGAIN......and Zay is in great (?) hands with 62 years of combined WR coaching between Robiskie and Culley to bring his arse around, right?......think maybe a TRUE #1 would make a difference along with the speed merchants Foster & McKenzie "around"?....for a million bucks (damn Rockpile Beerman makes MORE), I'd see how the draft/FA pans out as well as what this kid shows in TC and pre-season.......my lowly content contribution...

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, The Bills Blog said:

At 50 receptions, he's at #44 among WRs. That puts him clearly in the #2 WR camp. I think we've seen that he can't cut it when teams play him like a 1, but he should be good as a 2.

 

I agree he’s not a #1 - but not because of the stats.   Andre Reed wouldn’t have posted good numbers with this offense.

[GG]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The fact that you have to go back to his college days proves how poor your point is. College ceases to matter once you're on an NFL roster. Zay's stats - in the NFL - do show he's a #2.

He's producing #2 stats playing as a #1.   If the Bills had a bonafide WR on the roster, Zays stats would be in the deep depth range.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, GG said:

He's producing #2 stats playing as a #1.   If the Bills had a bonafide WR on the roster, Zays stats would be in the deep depth range.  

 

...uh oh....take cover and don your kevlar vest....I hear footsteps........

[Boca BIlls]

6 hours ago, The Bills Blog said:

At 50 receptions, he's at #44 among WRs. That puts him clearly in the #2 WR camp. I think we've seen that he can't cut it when teams play him like a 1, but he should be good as a 2.

He is a #3 at best... his drops are what leaves him out of the discussion for a #2. Receptions are not the only thing.

[billsfan_34]

The numbers show nothing with this dysfunctional offense. Lets shore up the Oline and hope JA is the annointed one- then we can fully assess Mr Jones.

[BillyWhiteShows]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....sure he's a HUGE risk at 2019 cost of $1.081 mil....or we could pay Sammy like numbers ($16 mil) for the same production...oh wait, he's injured AGAIN......and Zay is in great (?) hands with 62 years of combined WR coaching between Robiskie and Culley to bring his arse around, right?......think maybe a TRUE #1 would make a difference along with the speed merchants Foster & McKenzie "around"?....for a million bucks (damn Rockpile Beerman makes MORE), I'd see how the draft/FA pans out as well as what this kid shows in TC and pre-season.......my lowly content contribution...

 

Well there’s is no doubt he has improved a bit since last year.  I also would be fine keeping him on the roster.

 

My only point is that this season his stats don’t really give a good idea of his true contributions this years. While they are decent stats for a #2, I do believe that many of his catches came at the end of the game when defenses were allowing catches in front of them.  I also remember a number of very untimely drops from Zay and can’t remember one game where he really took over like good receivers do.

 

like I said, he has improved but still has a long way to go.  I do agree a better #1 WR would help his production

[Augie]

4 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Zay will end up being a decent receiver, but no where near JuJu in Pittsburgh or Cooper Kupp in LA.  McD blew that pick.

 

Almost Every pick was blown given 20/20 hindsight. Let’s not play that game.