You can kiss Henry good-bye

[Tipster19]

TD and MM are always wanting a power running game and with a young, inexperienced QB starting this year, do you think a TH type between the tackle back-up RB be a good solution? After Willis MaGahee massages a defense, would it be good to bring in a fresh power runner? I think so. I would not be surprised if Buffalo picks up a veteran FA RB and goes for other needs/depth in the early rounds of the draft. I think RB Ron Dayne would make an excellent choice to back-up and/or spell WM. Instead of Thunder and Lightning, we can call our RB tandem Bam-Bam.

 

This team is too young, especially in the backfield, to just go with inexperienced RBs. WM doesn't even have a full year starting under his belt. Throw in that if he ever got plowed in that knee again we would really be up the creek. Don't be shocked if you hear in the near future that Dayne, or someone of that caliber, comes visiting at One Bills Drive.

[Albany,n.y.]

Have you seen Dayne play since college? He cannot play a power game because he gets tackled before he gets any power going. He's been benched by both of his Giants coaches because his typical carry is a yard or two & down. About the only advantages I have living in Giants' country is I can see them practice & watch them enough to know when one of their players is no good.

[Tipster19]

What happen to last off season? Him and Coughlin were buddying up and they were supposed to make Dayne more of the offense. Somehow he got back into the doghouse. Was it due to his ability? I know that during Fassel regime he was fat and lazy. I really thought last year he was going to do something. If you were able to watch him practice last year, then who am I to argue. I thought maybe he just got lost in the shuffle. That's too bad, he's 5'10" and 245, aah what a waste.

[Buftex]

Though it is looking more and more like it won't happen, I would love to see the Bills sign Anthony Thomas (the "A-Train") to back-up McGahee...

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I see no problem with having an FB with Henry's running style as a compliment to WM. As a runner he is a tough guy who will hitand isn't afraid to get hit. He does not have the outside speed or stiff-arm WM has (but seemingly few do) but I can see why MM and TC had the idea of them of an Inside/Outside pairing if it worked.

 

However, I don't think it did or could work for a couple of reasons:

 

1. Henry really views himself as a #1 and WM is a better player and the Bills are committed to him and TH clearly did not perform when he lost the inspiration of being the guy.

 

As a Bill, the great thing about TH was that one could run him 30+ times a game and he seemed to get stronger as the opponents flagged. However, this meant his first 5-7 runs were a warm-up for him and as a #2 he needs to be productive immediately and this was not his style.

 

I have no problem with TH's running style, but the problem is that the warm-up he needs when he is not running productively makes him a poor current choice for a #2.

[CajunBillsBacker]

I'd like to see Najeh Davenport brought in. He's a power back who can handle a backup role.

[jarthur31]

TD and MM are always wanting a power running game and with a young, inexperienced QB starting this year, do you think a TH type between the tackle back-up RB be a good solution? After Willis MaGahee massages a defense, would it be good to bring in a fresh power runner? I think so. I would not be surprised if Buffalo picks up a veteran FA RB and goes for other needs/depth in the early rounds of the draft. I think RB Ron Dayne would make an excellent choice to back-up and/or spell WM. Instead of Thunder and Lightning, we can call our RB tandem Bam-Bam.

 

This team is too young, especially in the backfield, to just go with inexperienced RBs. WM doesn't even have a full year starting under his belt. Throw in that if he ever got plowed in that knee again we would really be up the creek. Don't be shocked if you hear in the near future that Dayne, or someone of that caliber, comes visiting at One Bills Drive.

288039[/snapback]

 

Hell yes! That's what we need now. If he can't be traded, then we need to keep his sulking ass and make him earn that free agent contract!

 

Shaud is a nice 3rd down type back but he couldn't handle the load should Willis miss major PT.

[VABills]

As a Bill, the great thing about TH was that one could run him 30+ times a game and he seemed to get stronger as the opponents flagged. However, this meant his first 5-7 runs were a warm-up for him and as a #2 he needs to be productive immediately and this was not his style.

288058[/snapback]

 

FFS you add a lot of good analysis, but this fact has been disproven in the past. Travis is actually a better 2nd and 3rd quarter RB, and has usually failed in the 4th. Only in 2003 did his 4th quatter numbers improve in the 4th, but in a lot of those situations we were behind and those were garbage carries when a pass was more likely when we were trying to catch-up. Also in 2003, it only tied him for average in the 4th with the 2nd quarter. This means Travis is better in a situtation if you "objectively" look at it, in a place like Pittsburgh, etc... when he can carry about half the load, but give it to a bruiser to finish it off.

 

So the reality is that Travis neither starts strong, nor finishes strong. He is probably better suited for a 2 back system where they rotate turns on the field.

 

2001 stats

1st - 3.1

2nd - 3.8

3rd - 3.6

4th - 3.0

 

2002 stats

1st - 4.7

2nd - 3.4

3rd - 5.3

4th - 3.9

 

2003 stats

1st - 3.3

2nd - 4.6

3rd - 4.2

4th - 4.6

 

2004 stats

1st - 1.9

2nd - 3.8

3rd - 3.9

4th - 3.8

[Kelly the Dog]

4th quarter stats a lot of times are misleading. Not that the Bills were leading all the time, or very often, but in the 4th quarter, even if your back is playing great ball, his YPC will go down because you're running out the clock. Or trying to milk the clock. 3.5 yards is a good carry in the fourth quarter for a lot of backs. Or your last two carries are right into the line for one yard which screws up your average.

[VABills]

4th quarter stats a lot of times are misleading. Not that the Bills were leading all the time, or very often, but in the 4th quarter, even if your back is playing great ball, his YPC will go down because you're running out the clock. Or trying to milk the clock. 3.5 yards is a good carry in the fourth quarter for a lot of backs. Or your last two carries are right into the line for one yard which screws up your average.

288188[/snapback]

 

 

Tell that to all these guys who wre stonger in the 4th quarter then, I guess they all suck:

 

Martin

Alexander

Davis

Lewis

Oh and I guess we should get rid of our terrible running bacl

 

Mcgahee

[Kelly the Dog]

Tell that to all these guys who wre stonger in the 4th quarter then, I guess they all suck:

 

Martin

Alexander

Davis

Lewis

Oh and I guess we should get rid of our terrible running bacl

 

Mcgahee

288197[/snapback]

Looks to me like the top ten rushers last year, 3 had better #'s in the fourth, 3 had the exact same, and 4 had worse. That looks like 57% had worse numbers in the fourth. But if you want to cherry pick guys like Dominic Davis to prove the point, go ahead.

 

J/K. I was surprised that it was as close as it was, I would have predicted 60% or 70% had worse.

[VABills]

Looks to me like the top ten rushers last year, 3 had better #'s in the fourth, 3 had the exact same, and 4 had worse. That looks like 57% had worse numbers in the fourth. But if you want to cherry pick guys like Dominic Davis to prove the point, go ahead.

 

J/K. I was surprised that it was as close as it was, I would have predicted 60% or 70% had worse.

288214[/snapback]

3 had better, 3 had the same and 4 worse. That means 60% had at least a tie for there best quater in the 4th. Not sure where you went to school, but you may want to consider taking another class.

 

Actually, if you watch other teams, not just Buffalo, these guys wear down defenses, and will wind up breaking a few in the 4th. That is where the better averages come from. True, you have the 2 yard runs at end of games, but typically it isn't the #1 it is the backups if the game is put away. This is why guys like Lewis, Martin, Alexander, Faulk in his prime, were considered great backs. Because they can put games away. Travis has never had that ability and his propensity to fumble late has actually lost us several games.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 had better, 3 had the same and 4 worse.  That means 60% had at least a tie for there best quater in the 4th.  Not sure where you went to school, but you may want to consider taking another class.

288218[/snapback]

No, three had a tie for their OVERALL average. Like 4.2 was their overall average and 4.2 for the fourth as well. Three had better 4th quarter averages than overall averages. Four had worse. We were discussing better or worse in the fourth quarter. I don't know where you went to school but I wouldn't automatically assume ties went to the better ledger. I would call them a wash. So 4 of the 7 that had better or worse had worse. Hence 57%.

 

Name "several games" we lost because Travis fumbled late.

[VABills]

No, three had a tie for their OVERALL average. Like 4.2 was their overall average and 4.2 for the fourth as well. Three had better 4th quarter averages than overall averages. Four had worse. We were discussing better or worse in the fourth quarter. I don't know where you went to school but I wouldn't automatically assume ties went to the better ledger. I would call them a wash. So 4 of the 7 that had better or worse had worse. Hence 57%.

 

Name "several games" we lost because Travis fumbled late.

288227[/snapback]

Denver is the easiest one, and still irks me every time I think of it.

Against Detriot where we won, but he fumbled late, that almost cost us the game.

Against NE when he fumbled, we recovered but forced Bledsoe into a long situation and he threw an INT the next play.

 

 

Those were just in Travis's "pro bowl year" - 2002.

 

In 2001, there was the famous fumble against Pittsburgh.

 

In 2003, there were the 2 fumbles against Miami in the Red Zone, one we recovered, but he just isn't solid holding the ball in crunch time.

[Nanker]

I for one, was not happy when Joe Burns was re-signed.

It's early and he could easily be beaten out in training camp, but this guy is no Ken Davis or Rob Riddick and the thought of him blinking vacantly in the backfield just leaves me cold.

[VABills]

I for one, was not happy when Joe Burns was re-signed.

It's early and he could easily be beaten out in training camp, but this guy is no Ken Davis or Rob Riddick and the thought of him blinking vacantly in the backfield just leaves me cold.

288232[/snapback]

Burns is good on special teams, and in pass blocking situtations. He is an average receiver. He is meant to be a backup 3rd down back, and a backup fullback. He is not the answer if someone goes down, long term.

[Nanker]

Burns is good on special teams, and in pass blocking situtations.  He is an average receiver.  He is meant to be a backup 3rd down back, and a backup fullback.  He is not the answer if someone goes down, long term.

288243[/snapback]

 

You're right about that. All of that.

ST is probably the reason they inked him again.

But I'd be happier with a better runner there.

[Kelly the Dog]

Denver is the easiest one, and still irks me every time I think of it. 

Against Detriot where we won, but he fumbled late, that almost cost us the game.

Against NE when he fumbled, we recovered but forced Bledsoe into a long situation and he threw an INT the next play.

Those were just in Travis's "pro bowl year" - 2002.

 

In 2001, there was the famous fumble against Pittsburgh.

 

In 2003, there were the 2 fumbles against Miami in the Red Zone, one we recovered, but he just isn't solid holding the ball in crunch time.

288231[/snapback]

So in other words, maybe one game in his four year career where he fumbled late and we lost the game?

[VABills]

So in other words, maybe one game in his four year career where he fumbled late and we lost the game?

288247[/snapback]

Pittsburgh, Denver, NE, and Miami, is 4 games in 3 years. Last year he wasn;t staying on his feet long enough to fumble.

 

And when a back is losing games for you that is bad.

[Kelly the Dog]

Burns is good on special teams, and in pass blocking situtations.  He is an average receiver.  He is meant to be a backup 3rd down back, and a backup fullback.  He is not the answer if someone goes down, long term.

288243[/snapback]

Totally agree. He's a reasonably valuable player without being very good runner. He plays three positions, counting special teams. he allows us to not carry a back-up FB which saves a roster spot. he can come in and play a half if Willis goes down. We do not want Joe Burns as our primary RB back-up though. Nor Shaud Williams for that matter.