Feeling better about Henry situation

[jahnyc]

I have had some concerns that we would be unable to trade Henry. With Alexander, James and the strong talent available in the draft, I thought that maybe there would be no suitors for Henry.

 

I think we all are forgetting the very solid seasons he had before this past year. I know I tend to remember his fumbling, his inability to pick up the blitz and his below average hands. I guess AZ sees more of the positives than the negatives.

 

I hope a deal gets done. I think Shelton will help if healthy. I still hope we draft a guard and/or a center. We will need the help even if Shelton becomes a Bill.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I posted Travis' numbers compared to Lamont Jordan's, and it wasn't even close. And Jordan got mad money whereas Travis has said he'll play-out his final year for $1.25M, as an audition of sorts, which is a MAJOR bargain consider what Jordan got, and what Alexander and James would demand.

[jahnyc]

With all of the recent discussions on the Board about TD's drafting, I am really starting to believe that Travis would be a bargain for a third round pick. It appears that a surprisingly low percentage of drafted players become starters or quality players. This percentage obviously decreases after the first round. Would you rather have a proven commodity (albeit a bit older that a draft pick out of college) or a guy who has a less than a 50-50 chance of becoming a quality player in the NFL? I would take the guy who has already shown he can be a very solid player.

[Kelly the Dog]

With all of the recent discussions on the Board about TD's drafting, I am really starting to believe that Travis would be a bargain for a third round pick.  It appears that a surprisingly low percentage of drafted players become starters or quality players.  This percentage obviously decreases after the first round.  Would you rather have a proven commodity (albeit a bit older that a draft pick out of college) or a guy who has a less than a 50-50 chance of becoming a quality player in the NFL?  I would take the guy who has already shown he can be a very solid player.

288037[/snapback]

If you were to draft ANY running back in the second round, and he would turn out to have 700 yards splitting time with two other backs as a rookie, then had back to back 1300-1400 yard seasons with 25 TDs, and then even had an off year, injury prone 4th year, you would think that was an excellent draft pick. Under any circumstances.

 

Therefore, Henry is worth a #2 draft pick.

[jarthur31]

Agreed, his value is a 2nd rounder. Only a desperate team would give up a first if all their backs somehow went down simultaneously.

[KRT88]

With the wealth of running backs in this years draft, it seems highly doubtful the Bills will convince Arizona to swap 2nd rounds picks in this deal.

 

If the Cards draft a back in rounds one or two then the game is up and we lost.

 

Eventually, it would seem like the Cards will have a to cut Shelton because they have three other tackels but you never know. This gamble could end up blowing up in the Bills face. Let's hope not.

[RunTheBall]

With the wealth of running backs in this years draft, it seems highly doubtful the Bills will convince Arizona to swap 2nd rounds picks in this deal.

 

If the Cards draft a back in rounds one or two then the game is up and we lost.

 

Eventually, it would seem like the Cards will have a to cut Shelton because they have three other tackels but you never know.  This gamble could end up blowing up in the Bills face.  Let's hope not.

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Paying 3 million a year for a tackle who isn't in your offensive line plans is a lot, even for a team like the Cardinals who aren't known for smart decision making. TD knows this, and its a lot easier for us to keep TH than it is for AZ to keep Shelton. The pressure is on AZ to get this deal done and that's why I think we'll swap 2nd rounders with them.

 

RTB

[Justice]

I know I tend to remember his fumbling, his inability to pick up the blitz and his below average hands.  I guess AZ sees more of the positives than the negatives.

 

287997[/snapback]

 

Shhhh, we're trying to make a trade here!

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Shhhh, we're trying to make a trade here!

Since his 2002 fumble-fest, he lowered his fumbling rate the next 2 seasons, and didn't fumble last year in 94 carries. And as for his "below average hands," he caught 43 passes in 2002. I'd agree his blocking is a liability though, but I'm sure a great coach like Green thinks he can make him a better one.

[KRT88]

Paying 3 million a year for a tackle who isn't in your offensive line plans is a lot, even for a team like the Cardinals who aren't known for smart decision making. TD knows this, and its a lot easier for us to keep TH than it is for AZ to keep Shelton. The pressure is on AZ to get this deal done and that's why I think we'll swap 2nd rounders with them.

 

RTB

288105[/snapback]

 

Out right releasing him will cost the Cards almost 3 million against their cap this year so they may be unwilling. Let's hope they draft a back or the games up.

 

Let's wait and see.

[Bill from NYC]

If you were to draft ANY running back in the second round, and he would turn out to have 700 yards splitting time with two other backs as a rookie, then had back to back 1300-1400 yard seasons with 25 TDs, and then even had an off year, injury prone 4th year, you would think that was an excellent draft pick. Under any circumstances.

 

Therefore, Henry is worth a #2 draft pick.

288038[/snapback]

 

So, you are telling us that Henry is as good as Faulk (in his prime), Dillon, Alexander or James?

Besides, while TH was compiling the stats that you mention, he was losing football games for the Bills.

If Henry, "under any conditions" was worth a number 2, a deal would have already been completed, dontcha think?

[jahnyc]

I think in other years we could have traded TH for a second round pick. Not this year. Apparently there are many good running backs in the draft, there are franchise rbs (James and Alexander) that could be had for maybe less than a first round pick and not as many teams as usual looking for new starting rbs.

 

There are still economic considerations, and if TH is really willing to play out his contract, then he becomes more attractive. The top three running backs and the franchise backs are going to be very expensive.

[Kelly the Dog]

So, you are telling us that Henry is as good as Faulk (in his prime), Dillon, Alexander or James?

Besides, while TH was compiling the stats that you mention, he was losing football games for the Bills.

If Henry, "under any conditions" was worth a number 2, a deal would have already been completed, dontcha think? 

288346[/snapback]

James and Alexander are likely not even going to find takers for second round picks, does that mean, with your logic, that they are worth third round or even fourth round picks? Of course not. You cannot look at trades like that over the course of several years. A lot has to do with contract, age, other backs available, what the team is looking to draft, where else they may need to spend money, etc.

 

The ONLY reason that Faulk went for what he was traded for was because Polian's Colts had a top draft pick and they knew without question they were going to draft Rickey Williams or Edgerrin James. And felt, wrongly, that they had gotten maximum use out Faulk already and didnt want to give him a huge contract. That is why he was traded for the pick he was traded for. Not because he is or isn't worth only a second rounder.

The point I said, that remains, is that if you were going to draft a guy in the second round and you got the production that henry got, you would be thrilled with that second round pick. Most Bills fans were thrilled with Henry as a second round pick until this year and Willis was ready.

 

And Travis Henry was not losing games for the Bills, it is not only a team game but he was one of the very few players not only producing but trying his ass off.

[Krammy7191]

So, you are telling us that Henry is as good as Faulk (in his prime), Dillon, Alexander or James?

Besides, while TH was compiling the stats that you mention, he was losing football games for the Bills.

If Henry, "under any conditions" was worth a number 2, a deal would have already been completed, dontcha think? 

288346[/snapback]

 

The only reason Henry isn't a lock for at least a second round pick is because of the way last year went down. He lost his starting job and got injured, and even though he has gotten better in regards to fumbling the ball only the people in Buffalo know this, and it's still viewed as a problem around the NFL. I think if he would have ran for another 1400 yards or even 1000 while sharing carries with Willis he'd definatly warrant at least a a second rounder. Our O-line has been suspect in the years he ran for 1400 yards and the league knows that. He is young and relatively cheap for this year, after that is still TBD. The fact that Edge and Alexander can be had for a second rounder hurts Travis' value, but all in all I think it will be Henry for Shelton with a switch of 2nd rounders and if need be we throw in a 4th or 5th next year, but we will have to wait and see.....

 

Kram

[Bill from NYC]

James and Alexander are likely not even going to find takers for second round picks, does that mean, with your logic, that they are worth third round or even fourth round picks? Of course not. You cannot look at trades like that over the course of several years. A lot has to do with contract, age, other backs available, what the team is looking to draft, where else they may need to spend money, etc.

 

The ONLY reason that Faulk went for what he was traded for was because Polian's Colts had a top draft pick and they knew without question they were going to draft Rickey Williams or Edgerrin James. And felt, wrongly, that they had gotten maximum use out Faulk already and didnt want to give him a huge contract. That is why he was traded for the pick he was traded for. Not because he is or isn't worth only a second rounder.

The point I said, that remains, is that if you were going to draft a guy in the second round and you got the production that henry got, you would be thrilled with that second round pick. Most Bills fans were thrilled with Henry as a second round pick until this year and Willis was ready.

 

And Travis Henry was not losing games for the Bills, it is not only a team game but he was one of the very few players not only producing but trying his ass off.

 

 

288359[/snapback]

 

Just a touch of "homer" mentality in this and your initial post? Nothing at all wrong with this mind you, but it does not lend itself to factual discussion.

 

When discussing the Faulk trade, you only mention how Polian felt, and why he was willing to take a 2nd and a 5th. Tell me, why did no other team outbid the rams? I think it is because history tells us that, with a few exceptions, RBs tend to have not so high trade value. Dillon, James, and Alexander seem to prove this.

 

As for "most Bills fans being thrilled with Travis," what would you expect? They were also thrilled with Ostroski, Fina and others when it was time to dump them. Bills fans are loyal, except when it comes to qbs., especially Bledsoe.

 

As for Travis not losing games, it is hard for me to believe that you are serious. Did you see him sliding on the turf, untouched, on crucial plays this season? Did you see the missed blocks and wrong routes? Do you remember the 1st game Drew played vs. the jests when Travis gave away the football? Please, look at the records of Drew and Travis as starters on the Bills and see who has a better winning percentage. I ask you to also consider that if TH is or was THAT good, why did TD use a 1st round pick on a rb, for no reason? He could have taken Steinbeck and had an immediate impact LG.

 

In summary, the fact that you are a Travis fan and think that he is worth a 2nd round pick is truly OK. The truth however remains that nobody will give us one.

Agreed?

[plenzmd1]

When discussing the Faulk trade, you only mention how Polian felt, and why he was willing to take a 2nd and a 5th. Tell me, why did no other team outbid the rams? I think it is because history tells us that, with a few exceptions, RBs tend to have not so high trade value. Dillon, James, and Alexander seem to prove this.

 

 

 

In summary, the fact that you are a Travis fan and think that he is worth a 2nd round pick is truly OK. The truth however remains that nobody will give us one.

Agreed?

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I think he was trying to say one cannot just look at the players ability for what another team will be willing to give up. The Skins gave up a stud DB and a second rounder for Portis last year, plus a huge restructuring of his contract. If James or Alexander were signed to long term deals that fit in with a teams cap structure , they would be traded today for a 1st. However, giving the pick is only the start , getting both of them signed at cap friendly deals is why the trades have not occured.

 

I keep seeing people mention the fact that Travis is willing to play for his current deal as a positive. That would be true if he had more than one year left. The risk that ARizona runs is TH going there, having a great year, and then being an UFA. Would I give up a second rd pick for a player that only has a year left on his deal without an extension wrapped up? NO WAY. Or, only if I thought I was one player away form a SB championship.

 

Don't forget as well, Corey Dillon took a big cut to go the Pats last year. He wanted out of Cinci so bad, he was willing to do it. Wonder if TH wants out of Buffalo bad enough to either do the same, or sign an extension that makes this trade happen. Let TH sign an extension for two years with the Bills at say 1.6M per year with no bonus, and see how how fast this gets done. Dam ink woudn't be dry and he would be in that desert sun!!!

[Bill from NYC]

>>>I think he was trying to say one cannot just look at the players ability for what another team will be willing to give up. The Skins gave up a stud DB and a second rounder for Portis last year, plus a huge restructuring of his contract.<<<

 

Very good point. Have you noticed that the Bills are NOT getting offers such as this for Henry?

He just isn't that good.

[Kelly the Dog]

>>>I think he was trying to say one cannot just look at the players ability for what another team will be willing to give up. The Skins gave up a stud DB and a second rounder for Portis last year, plus a huge restructuring of his contract.<<<

 

Very good point. Have you noticed that the Bills are NOT getting offers such as this for Henry?

He just isn't that good.

289657[/snapback]

The Bills got a first round pick for Peerless, was he THAT good? Better than Faulk? Better than Farve?

[plenzmd1]

>>>I think he was trying to say one cannot just look at the players ability for what another team will be willing to give up. The Skins gave up a stud DB and a second rounder for Portis last year, plus a huge restructuring of his contract.<<<

 

Very good point. Have you noticed that the Bills are NOT getting offers such as this for Henry?

He just isn't that good.

289657[/snapback]

 

Would you rather have James or Portis? See, the Skins were willing to pay Portis the cake, so the trade`was made. James and Alexander are not signed long term, hense no one willing to part with the picks.

 

Like I said in the other post, if TH wants out so bad agree to an extension that is cap friendly( no bonus) and this deal happens yesterday. However, he would basically being screwing himself out of his last big contract. So, one must look at both sides here. Thats is why, IMHO, this trade has not been done yet, no matter what TH or his knucklehead agent have spouted off in the press.

[Bill from NYC]

The Bills got a first round pick for Peerless, was he THAT good? Better than Faulk? Better than Farve?

289664[/snapback]

 

Atlanta needed a receiver and overpaid.

Where are our offers for Henry?