Doc Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, FeelingOnYouboty said: Strange but thought he was more inaccurate today than most days and the stats show otherwise. He’s never going to be Brees but I’m hoping with a full offseason and a year older he gets better with pre-snap recognition, hitting the checks and another year of improved footwork. Can we see a Trubisky level of improvement in Year 2? Time will tell. Need to get him the OL and weapons Trubisky has.
LSHMEAB Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Doc said: You mean like Tyrod? Or how about Rosen? Nice game by Allen. We'll see how this offseason shakes out. I think it's time to let go of Tyrod. He's gone. 1
FeelingOnYouboty Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, Doc said: Time will tell. Need to get him the OL and weapons Trubisky has. Pace did an excellent job investing in his QB last off season. We need to do the same.
Doc Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, LSHMEAB said: Nice game by Allen. We'll see how this offseason shakes out. I think it's time to let go of Tyrod. He's gone. I let go of him after he was released. But when people start bringing up last year and the vapid argument that it's the same players around Josh, his name has to be invoked.
GunnerBill Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: Strange but thought he was more inaccurate today than most days and the stats show otherwise. He’s never going to be Brees but I’m hoping with a full offseason and a year older he gets better with pre-snap recognition, hitting the checks and another year of improved footwork. Can we see a Trubisky level of improvement in Year 2? Agree there were some bad throws today. But some incredible plays too. And that is the point with Josh. He completed 52% against Detroit and it was one of his most consistently accurate days. He completed 65% and was less consistent with his accuracy. You have to watch the tape. Scoreboard scouting is useless for most QBs it is even more so for Josh. 1 1
Billsfan1972 Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said: receivers probably played their best game today Still basically zero rushing and the Bills put up 42 pts Allen and Zay finish off on a high note and hopefully more to come in 2019 Why? Because no drops? They caught the balls that hit them in the hands? They were not anything special. Ran routes and caught the ball. Theytre NFL players.
Socal-805 Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 16 % of Zay Jones total yards for the season came today in a meaningless game against a Miami team which basically gave up.
DuckyBoys Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Why? Because no drops? They caught the balls that hit them in the hands? They were not anything special. Ran routes and caught the ball. Theytre NFL players. Oh I agree I just meant they made plays that nfl receivers are supposed to Something we didnt see consistently during the year
The Wiz Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Why? Because no drops? They caught the balls that hit them in the hands? They were not anything special. Ran routes and caught the ball. Theytre NFL players. Being an NFL player doesn't show up on the stats sheet. Other than you have a stats sheet because you are an NFL player. 7 minutes ago, Socal-805 said: 16 % of Zay Jones total yards for the season came today in a meaningless game against a Miami team which basically gave up. Tell that to Kyle. 100% of his total yards came today. Edited December 30, 2018 by The Wiz 2 2
CincyBillsFan Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 After reading some of the comments on this thread I have to wonder if these people watched today's game or any NFL games for that matter. * Even the best QB's make bad throws. Allen's INT was a terrible decision but actually a pretty good throw. That is the ball was chest high for his receiver but a Dolphin was in position to step in front of the pass for the Pick 6. That's a mental mistake by Allen not a bad throw. And it's the kind of mistakes even the best QB's make not just rookies. * Over the course of this game Allen had maybe 4 poor throws with the rest being throw away's. Hell one of Allen's throw away passes was the ugliest pass of the season as it was quacking all the way into the stands. But he avoided the sack and the throw away was NEVER in danger of being intercepted. True the poor quality of that pass did make it hard for a fan to catch it cleanly. * Allen completed 65% of his passes today - something that the analytics folks claimed could never happen (you can't improve accuracy). Heck, he even completed 7 in a row! Most of his short passes were perfectly placed strikes. He threw the ball well and made big passing plays from the pocket and while on the move. * His 2nd TD pass was a thing of beauty being one of those perfectly placed short TD throws that folks claim Allen can't make. And from what I understand Allen made the correct pre-read to spot Foster in single coverage and exploit it. And the touch on his last TD pass was also perfect. I don't care how wide open Jones was that was a pretty pass. * And I loved the way Allen ran the ball today. He didn't take any unnecessary risks yet his runs were huge difference makers in the game. I mean it's getting to the point where on 3rd and 1 or less Allen is unstoppable on the QB sneak. The type of running we saw today can be maintained over a long NFL career. * But the biggest thing we saw today wasn't Allen's excellent stats. After the pick 6 how many of you thought that Allen might have been mentally knocked off his game? I did and I figured that the 2nd half would see a disaster of more INT's and sacks as the kid melted down. But instead we saw a guy come out of the locker room for the 2nd half pissed off at the dumb play he made with the pick 6. He then almost single handily took his team 80 yards down the field to score TD and allow the Bills to take back the momentum. It was worth having him throw that awful pick six so we could see how he would respond and IMO he couldn't have responded any better. * He has the intangible's and he has all the physical tools. He needs experience and has to refine his game, both mental & physical. But IMO I'm convinced he is the guy. He finished 5 - 5 in the 10 games he started and finished. His play improved dramatically after he returned from his injury. Only the sky is the limit to this kids future. * So I choose to be positive about the future of this team and this QB. 3
Doc Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 I disagree that he didn't take some unnecessary risks while scrambling. And I think the pick-six rattled him for the start of the second half.
oldmanfan Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 3 hours ago, VW82 said: Did you see the ESPN Stats & Info article I posted a few pages back? They came to a similar conclusion wrt his rate of off target throws. Interestingly, the numbers were eerily similar to my 20% theory from charting those three games (though I was including bad decisions as well; It’s unclear whether ESPN did). I thought he had numerous inaccurate throws in today’s game as well. On the whole he was obviously quite good. I’m excited to see how he progresses in year two. He missed a few today. He's missed a few every game. I'd love to sit with you next season and chart throws together and see how close we agree. I mentioned above I wonder what the inter and intraobserver variance is in all these analyses.
CincyBillsFan Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 24 minutes ago, Doc said: I disagree that he didn't take some unnecessary risks while scrambling. And I think the pick-six rattled him for the start of the second half. The Bills took their first possession of the 2nd half 80 yards for a TD with Allen making a couple of great throws and a huge run. So what did you see to make you think he was rattled at the start of the 2nd half? 1
oldmanfan Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 3 hours ago, VW82 said: I want to quickly address Hapless's point about how we don't really know on any of these throws whether the receiver ran the route correctly, and so therefore we can't say for sure that these off target throws are actually Allen's fault. I think it's very valid on timing throws where the throw is made before the receiver makes his break; however, shouldn't we still put at least some (if not most) of the blame on the QB for not adjusting once he sees the receiver cut on an 80 degree angle as appose to 70 degrees for example? This isn't a video game where you pick your play and only throw to a spot regardless of what else is happening. IRL things change and we re-calculate on the spot. Food for thought. I would say no. And I base that on living outside Indy and reading about Manning. Manning practiced a lot with his WRs and demanded precise patterns. If you were running a 10 yard out it better be 10 and not 11 because he was throwing it to the 10 yard mark. I think Brady is even more demanding. 3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: There's no denying the kid makes plays no other quarterback can make. I've altered that from few because that rope he threw in the second half was insane as well as the long TD run. Just don't see it from anyone else. There's also no denying that he threw several errant passes that you don't see from the top QB's. This is likely to be a sentimental day here at TBD with Kyle retiring and the offense lighting up the scoreboard, but we've got to keep things in perspective. If he can cut down on those errors, he's going to be a franchise QB. I was watching several games with playoff implications after the Bills game. Have to say I saw a lot of errant throws from a lot of guys. 3
Billsfan1972 Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I would say no. And I base that on living outside Indy and reading about Manning. Manning practiced a lot with his WRs and demanded precise patterns. If you were running a 10 yard out it better be 10 and not 11 because he was throwing it to the 10 yard mark. I think Brady is even more demanding. I was watching several games with playoff implications after the Bills game. Have to say I saw a lot of errant throws from a lot of guys. No. Only Allen throws bad passes. Get it right or don't bother posting.
oldmanfan Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 Just now, Billsfan1972 said: No. Only Allen throws bad passes. Get it right or don't bother posting. Silly me 1
K-9 Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: The Bills took their first possession of the 2nd half 80 yards for a TD with Allen making a couple of great throws and a huge run. So what did you see to make you think he was rattled at the start of the 2nd half? Allen was the opposite of rattled after the pick 6. He looked determined to atone for the mistake and he spent the entire second half doing just that. The ability to shrug off adversity may be the most important quality in a QB. I remember a Monday night game vs. the Bengals when Kelly threw three, count em, THREE interceptions in the first quarter and then proceeded to throw five TDS the rest of the way. You can’t coach mental toughness and I suspect Allen has it. How would Peterman have responded, I wonder.
CincyBillsFan Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Allen was the opposite of rattled after the pick 6. He looked determined to atone for the mistake and he spent the entire second half doing just that. The ability to shrug off adversity may be the most important quality in a QB. I remember a Monday night game vs. the Bengals when Kelly threw three, count em, THREE interceptions in the first quarter and then proceeded to throw five TDS the rest of the way. You can’t coach mental toughness and I suspect Allen has it. How would Peterman have responded, I wonder. Wow, that Kelly game was the one I thought of to. Living in Cincinnati we had a big MNF party and it was crammed with Bengal's fans. Man that 1st quarter was nuts. Then Kelly & Lofton started to hook up and I got to live the old saying "he who laughs last, laughs best". I wonder how many of the naysayers about Allen understand just how big his 2nd half performance was in light of the pick 6 he threw right before the end of the 1st half? You're right that you can't coach mental toughness and this kid has it by the boat load. 1
DuckyBoys Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 Kids got some stones on him. Gonna be a long off season waiting to see how they upgrade the talent around him and his jump in year 2. 1
Doc Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: The Bills took their first possession of the 2nd half 80 yards for a TD with Allen making a couple of great throws and a huge run. So what did you see to make you think he was rattled at the start of the 2nd half? That was my sense. He had 3 bad passes on that drive. But he more than made up for it.
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