IDBillzFan Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 The change in culture doesn't nessecarily jusitfy his actions, what I was trying to point out is that todays America is not the same as it was 25 years ago. People like Ron Artest are everywhere. You believe he should be held to a higher standard because he is paid a lot of money to do his job. Fine, fair enough. In reality the fans are his boss. They pay his paycheck and dictate NBA policy regarding things like what happenend in Detroit. Ron Artest was not suspended because the NBA thought he was wrong in his actions, but rather they answer to their fans and their fans as a whole were insulted by what happened. Well why are they insulted? Fans were at the root of the whole situation to begin with. Yeah sure, a cup of beer in and of itself isn't a big deal, but the next thing you know some pyscho is going to kill a performer while they are performing. Oh nevermind, that already happened in December. Fans can not cross the line that was crossed in Detroit that night. To hold Ron Artest soley responsible or even as the main root of the problem is just not a correct line of thinking. 288528[/snapback] I will agree, without question, he was not alone in fault. But while it sounds nice to say the fan is his boss, it's just not the case because the paying fan can not have him fired, can not tell him what to do, where to be and when to do it. That falls on the Pacers, as well as the commissioner, and everyone fell on their face for the sake of the dollar. When Artest comes back, the NBA will be a zoo...and when he goes back to Detriot, the zoo will take on epic proportions. Massive advertising dollars will be spent. Ticket prices will skyrocket. And once again America will have someone they love to hate so much, they'll pay him money to have him show up. Pacers, Pistons, Artest, Sterns and the NBA all get what they want...not to mention a considerable dip in respectability.
BF_in_Indiana Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 I will agree, without question, he was not alone in fault. But while it sounds nice to say the fan is his boss, it's just not the case because the paying fan can not have him fired, can not tell him what to do, where to be and when to do it. That falls on the Pacers, as well as the commissioner, and everyone fell on their face for the sake of the dollar. When Artest comes back, the NBA will be a zoo...and when he goes back to Detriot, the zoo will take on epic proportions. Massive advertising dollars will be spent. Ticket prices will skyrocket. And once again America will have someone they love to hate so much, they'll pay him money to have him show up. Pacers, Pistons, Artest, Sterns and the NBA all get what they want...not to mention a considerable dip in respectability. 288580[/snapback] Agreed 100 percent.
justnzane Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 Ok I am an athlete at the college level. When any athlete sees the threat of being attack by fans, they think of monica seles and others that have been attacked by fans in the past. On field security is rather mediocre for basketball, baseball, and a lot of other sports, which means the athelte in many cases is better off defending and retaliating against the fans, or at least hiding. In basketball, there is no hiding from fan attacks, where baseball players can hide from pissed off fans throwing crap on the field by going to the dugouts. So what i am getting at is that artest would have probably been attacked by other fans if he did not go into the stands himself and take out the guy next to idiot who threw crap at him, while still getting clubbed in the head by that idiot
BF_in_Indiana Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 Ok I am an athlete at the college level. When any athlete sees the threat of being attack by fans, they think of monica seles and others that have been attacked by fans in the past. On field security is rather mediocre for basketball, baseball, and a lot of other sports, which means the athelte in many cases is better off defending and retaliating against the fans, or at least hiding. In basketball, there is no hiding from fan attacks, where baseball players can hide from pissed off fans throwing crap on the field by going to the dugouts. So what i am getting at is that artest would have probably been attacked by other fans if he did not go into the stands himself and take out the guy next to idiot who threw crap at him, while still getting clubbed in the head by that idiot 288684[/snapback] Very well said.
IDBillzFan Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 Ok I am an athlete at the college level. When any athlete sees the threat of being attack by fans, they think of monica seles and others that have been attacked by fans in the past. On field security is rather mediocre for basketball, baseball, and a lot of other sports, which means the athelte in many cases is better off defending and retaliating against the fans, or at least hiding. In basketball, there is no hiding from fan attacks, where baseball players can hide from pissed off fans throwing crap on the field by going to the dugouts. So what i am getting at is that artest would have probably been attacked by other fans if he did not go into the stands himself and take out the guy next to idiot who threw crap at him, while still getting clubbed in the head by that idiot 288684[/snapback] Tell me again why the fans were riled up in the first place? You make it sound like the fans were walking into the Coliseum in Rome looking for blood. Who was that lying on the scorer's table again? The only thing missing from Artest at that moment was a pacifier and his pink binkie. He could have walked over to their bench and that would have been that. He could have hung around a few security guards if he was really concerned. But what did he do? He pulled a Rick Flair BS move and acted like a baby. Oh, but the players need to worry about the fans? Great. Let's get rid of the fans. That way the players can just play without fear of injury. Fear of the fans? Jeez, man, you have to do better than that. Or ask Lance Armstrong what it was like riding up the L'Alpe D'Huez. Fans were a rat's asshair away from him, throwing beer on him, calling him names...and did he go after anyone? No. He moved on to victory. But I guess it's different for people like Artest because he's so misunderstood. In the meantime, if you're in any career at all where you're not willing to accept the dangers of it, then I suggest you buy a Good Humor truck and change careers.
justnzane Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 Tell me again why the fans were riled up in the first place? You make it sound like the fans were walking into the Coliseum in Rome looking for blood. Who was that lying on the scorer's table again? The only thing missing from Artest at that moment was a pacifier and his pink binkie. He could have walked over to their bench and that would have been that. He could have hung around a few security guards if he was really concerned. But what did he do? He pulled a Rick Flair BS move and acted like a baby. Oh, but the players need to worry about the fans? Great. Let's get rid of the fans. That way the players can just play without fear of injury. Fear of the fans? Jeez, man, you have to do better than that. Or ask Lance Armstrong what it was like riding up the L'Alpe D'Huez. Fans were a rat's asshair away from him, throwing beer on him, calling him names...and did he go after anyone? No. He moved on to victory. But I guess it's different for people like Artest because he's so misunderstood. In the meantime, if you're in any career at all where you're not willing to accept the dangers of it, then I suggest you buy a Good Humor truck and change careers. 288691[/snapback] Wow. Lets see, what artest did that is similar to your beloved former cancer patient is that he attempted to avoid the confrontation. The fact of the matter is that Lance had a bunch of other cyclists along side him through that crap, where artest was by himself on the scorers table. If he was on the bench, the some other idiot would have probably went after him as those rabid Piston fans were about to riot anyway. If that game did not blow up like it, i bet the fans would have been beating the hell out of each other like they were this past weekend
Tcali Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 Yeah...that Artest. He's a real victim. 288131[/snapback] St. Ronald of Artesta
IDBillzFan Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 Wow. Lets see, what artest did that is similar to your beloved former cancer patient is that he attempted to avoid the confrontation. The fact of the matter is that Lance had a bunch of other cyclists along side him through that crap, where artest was by himself on the scorers table. If he was on the bench, the some other idiot would have probably went after him as those rabid Piston fans were about to riot anyway. If that game did not blow up like it, i bet the fans would have been beating the hell out of each other like they were this past weekend 288695[/snapback] You're defending a thug like Artest but taking shots at a surviving cancer patient simply because other cyclists were near him? Okay. Whatever. Bottom line: Artest should have restrained himself. Plain and simple. If you think playing WWF by lying so disrespectfully on the scorer's table was 'avoiding the confrontation,' then there is no way myself or anyone else will be able to help you see what a lowlife, self-absorbed piece of garbage he is. I would hate like hell to have been at that game with my 10-year-old son. Exactly how would I explain that behavior to him? "See, son, that's why I wanted you to come to watch the NBA. Because a 6'7" 246 pound professional athlete will leave the game he's paid to play, come into the stands and kick somebody's ass. And he should be able to do that, son, because playing in front of fans is very, very dangerous and if he doesn't kick a fan's ass every so often, he might get hurt himself." It's like listening to Miami fans defend Bryan Cox and his finger-flipping at The Ralph because fans can be so mean sometimes, and poor Bryan Cox just shouldn't be put through that.
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Wow. Lets see, what artest did that is similar to your beloved former cancer patient is that he attempted to avoid the confrontation. The fact of the matter is that Lance had a bunch of other cyclists along side him through that crap, where artest was by himself on the scorers table. If he was on the bench, the some other idiot would have probably went after him as those rabid Piston fans were about to riot anyway. If that game did not blow up like it, i bet the fans would have been beating the hell out of each other like they were this past weekend 288695[/snapback] So let them! There is no need for Artest to get innvolved. Turn the other check and walk away. What Artest did was NOT "Live Strong"... Rather the opposite, he "Lives Weak." Very well said LA.
BF_in_Indiana Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 A couple of points LA. 1. Ron Artest did NOT incite those fans. Ben Wallace incited them with his choolyard thug antics. 2. As it was pointed out, if Ron Artest had went to the bench and sat down by himself the same thing would have happened, it probably would have just been another person throwing the beer. 3. Ron Artest doesn't have the best attitude in the world. That's been established.
Alaska Darin Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Ok I am an athlete at the college level. When any athlete sees the threat of being attack by fans, they think of monica seles and others that have been attacked by fans in the past. On field security is rather mediocre for basketball, baseball, and a lot of other sports, which means the athelte in many cases is better off defending and retaliating against the fans, or at least hiding. In basketball, there is no hiding from fan attacks, where baseball players can hide from pissed off fans throwing crap on the field by going to the dugouts. So what i am getting at is that artest would have probably been attacked by other fans if he did not go into the stands himself and take out the guy next to idiot who threw crap at him, while still getting clubbed in the head by that idiot 288684[/snapback] Really? It's now smart to fight spectators on the road? Sure it is.
R. Rich Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Speaking of the Pistons, did anyone hear about this? Pretty messed up, isn't it?
rockpile Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 BF_in_Indiana,Mar 28 2005, 11:54 AM 1. Ron Artest did NOT incite those fans. Ben Wallace incited them with his choolyard thug antics. Lying on the scorer's table was like pouring gas on a fire - he was taunting the fans. Yes, Wallace started it but Artest kept it going. 2. As it was pointed out, if Ron Artest had went to the bench and sat down by himself the same thing would have happened, it probably would have just been another person throwing the beer. And SECURITY could have collected the ass-wipe fans as they threw beers. 3. Ron Artest doesn't have the best attitude in the world. That's been established. No argument.
BF_in_Indiana Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Speaking of the Pistons, did anyone hear about this? Pretty messed up, isn't it? 288986[/snapback] Yeah Ron wasn't there so they thought they would fight each other. Only in Detroit.
IDBillzFan Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 A couple of points LA. 1. Ron Artest did NOT incite those fans. Ben Wallace incited them with his choolyard thug antics. Artest should not have plopped his disrespectful self on the scorers' table. It was a childish display which only made things worse and you know it. He should have been the bigger person. 2. As it was pointed out, if Ron Artest had went to the bench and sat down by himself the same thing would have happened, it probably would have just been another person throwing the beer.The moment you use a words like 'probably would have,' then you're argument carries no more weight. You have no idea what 'probably would have' happened. And we'll never know because, again, instead of being the bigger person, he decided to be the bigger baby. 3. Ron Artest doesn't have the best attitude in the world. That's been established. 288953[/snapback] Not only does he not have the best attitude in the world, when it comes to athletes, he clearly is has one of the worst. He should have been banned for life...period.
BF_in_Indiana Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 And SECURITY could have collected the ass-wipe fans as they threw beers. No argument. 289040[/snapback] SECURITY wasn't even moving towards those guys when Ron jumped off the scorers table. They were just standing there looking the other way. Watch the tape again.
IDBillzFan Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 SECURITY wasn't even moving towards those guys when Ron jumped off the scorers table. They were just standing there looking the other way. Watch the tape again. 289045[/snapback] If you watch the tape again, will you see this recollection? Almost at the same time, a fan threw a plastic cup of beer on Artest. That set Artest off. He raced into the stands and started swinging. The first person he hit was Mike Ryan of Clarkston. "I have no idea," Ryan said of why Artest picked him. "He was on top of me, pummeling me and he said, "Did you do it? Did you do it?' And I said, 'No, man, no.' He kind of shoved me and went off on other people." Artest. He's such a victim in all of this.
BF_in_Indiana Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Artest should not have plopped his disrespectful self on the scorers' table. It was a childish display which only made things worse and you know it. He should have been the bigger person. The moment you use a words like 'probably would have,' then you're argument carries no more weight. You have no idea what 'probably would have' happened. And we'll never know because, again, instead of being the bigger person, he decided to be the bigger baby. Not only does he not have the best attitude in the world, when it comes to athletes, he clearly is has one of the worst. He should have been banned for life...period. 289044[/snapback] I have never said he should have layed on the table. That has nothing to do with the argument I've tried to make from the beginning. As far as the "probably would have" stuff, I guess you have a point, but I think they would have still hit him with beer or other objects. They are just trash up there in Detroit. They were punks when I went to the game in Indy. They just don't know when to keep to themselves. They remind me of Patriot fans.
BF_in_Indiana Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 If you watch the tape again, will you see this recollection? Almost at the same time, a fan threw a plastic cup of beer on Artest. That set Artest off. He raced into the stands and started swinging. The first person he hit was Mike Ryan of Clarkston. "I have no idea," Ryan said of why Artest picked him. "He was on top of me, pummeling me and he said, "Did you do it? Did you do it?' And I said, 'No, man, no.' He kind of shoved me and went off on other people." Artest. He's such a victim in all of this. 289051[/snapback] What does him hitting the wrong guy have to do with what I was trying to point out? I was saying that security wasn't even paying attention to what happened. Nowhere did I state that Ron was a victim in that post.
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