billsfan1959 Posted December 26, 2018 Posted December 26, 2018 1 hour ago, reddogblitz said: Didn't they make all those trades and dump all those guys in order to have everything they need to build a champion? Yes, they traded all those guys to acquire the means (draft picks for 2018 and 2019, and cap space for 2019) to build a championship caliber team. Now we need to see what they do with those draft picks and cap space in 2019. If they do well, then they are on their way to building the team we all want. If they do not do well, we will be starting over again in a couple of years. We can only wait and see.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 26, 2018 Posted December 26, 2018 36 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: It is obvious what they were doing with cap room this season, and they obviously were willing to take a strategic setback in order to build a more sound financial situation rolling forward. Having said that, there is also no doubt that they thought it would go substantially better than it did this year. They also thought Peterman would be a serviceable starter while Allen learned and watched from the sideline. This season is not about a 100% tank, or a 100% planned rebuild with everything going according to plan. The truth lies in the middle. They will emerge from this season, overall, looking bad IMO and McBeane's fate will rest in their ability to fix this #*$& show in this coming offseason. But this isn't correct. Why do people on the board keep throwing this false statement out there? It was widely reported and also confirmed by McD in a press conference that the "plan" going into the 3rd preseason game was to start ALLEN week 1. That was when there was 3 QBs still here. They had their hand forced a little bit when Allen and the offense got overwhelmed the 3rd game, but the intention was to start Allen NOT Peterman. So ultimately, they didn't start Peterman because they felt he was a good starter, they started Peterman to sit Allen a little longer to make sure he was ready and he was ALWAYS going to start at some point early in the season. But fans here keep spinning this as if McD decided Peterman was a franchise QB and turned the franchise over to him. And the only reason we kept him over AJM was because no one offered us an asset for Peterman, and the Raiders foolishly offered us a 5th and they took it considering they were going to cut one of the two anyway and NP outplayed AJM anyway in preseason. And no coach ever goes out on Sundays and tries to tank. McD is going to try and win every single game, no matter how good the roster is or isnt. They knew this was going to be a rebuilding season, and both Beane and McD said that. And our teams biggest struggles were mostly with NP and DA, so injuries contributed heavily to several of those really bad weeks. I respect your opinion, but I cant see how any can look at McD and Beane and think they look bad. They broke the 17 year drought with a below average roster. They got rid of bad contracts or players who didn't fit the future plans. They drafted very well grabbing impactful starters in Tre and Milano, managed to grab 2 first round picks without giving up any future picks to land our QB and MLB to anchor both sides of the ball, and found value still in the draft after in guys like Taron and Phillips who look promising themselves. Not to mention guys like Levi and Gaines who show potential too. They found a gem in UDFA and other teams practice squad players. They weren't afraid to cut bait on a trade that didn't work and cut KB to make way for the younger players. And most importantly, Beane fixed the cap a year earlier than he projected while also grabbing a few extra draft picks this year too. I mean how is anyone upset with this? Drafting well, clearing out cap space, adding extra picks, finding value in UDFA and PS players, etc...I am quite pleased with the direction of this team. We got a top D right now with a young QB that is exciting and there is a lot to be excited about.
Trogdor Posted December 26, 2018 Posted December 26, 2018 I keep seeing cap hell, but how much of that was self imposed? 2
reddogblitz Posted December 26, 2018 Posted December 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Well lucky for us then that next year is only year TWO of the 3 year plan. This will only be Beanes second draft. McD first year he was stuck with Rex and Whaleys roster. This was the first actual year of the rebuild where they tore out the pieces the were getting us no where and fixed the cap. Its amazing how out of touch some of you are with the realities and facts of this team. I disagree. Year 1 we did make the playoffs, but we also dumped a lot of talent and Whaley first round picks for draft picks. And we traded down out of 10 (which could have been Watson or Mahommes, but I digress). Sammy Darby Ragland Mr. Big Stuff That's rebuilding no matter how you slice it IMHO
papazoid Posted December 26, 2018 Posted December 26, 2018 On 12/24/2018 at 7:30 PM, PUNT750 said: I really can’t believe the 3 year re-build plan for the Bills will have much success in 2019. Regardless of 10 draft picks and $90 mil in cap space it doesn’t make sense. Realistically we need new, quality; O Lineman (3), WR (3), RB (2), LB (1), TE (1), DB (1), DL (1) That’s 12 total to be competitive!! We’re going to have to over-pay for quality, top tier free-agents to come to Buffalo. We all know the risks with drafts picks in their rookie seasons (Zay Jones, Teller, McCloud and even Edmunds). It just doesn’t happen. I love believing in the PROCESS but with a young, raw QB who is still unproven while trying to blend a plethora of new players into a competent NFL team seems unrealistic. It may sell tickets but not win a lot of games. GO BILLS! bills didn't over pay for Hyde & Poyer. tre devious, allen and Edmunds all contributed and played well in rookie season. last time I checked the bills haven't revealed their rebuild plans. clearing out the garbage contracts bodes well for future you take F/A and trades one deal at a time as they come. $100 mil under the cap fixes a lot of problems. no regime wins them all. fortunes change quickly in this league
Nextmanup Posted December 26, 2018 Posted December 26, 2018 17 minutes ago, Trogdor said: I keep seeing cap hell, but how much of that was self imposed? Almost all of it. 24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: But this isn't correct. Why do people on the board keep throwing this false statement out there? It was widely reported and also confirmed by McD in a press conference that the "plan" going into the 3rd preseason game was to start ALLEN week 1. That was when there was 3 QBs still here. They had their hand forced a little bit when Allen and the offense got overwhelmed the 3rd game, but the intention was to start Allen NOT Peterman. So ultimately, they didn't start Peterman because they felt he was a good starter, they started Peterman to sit Allen a little longer to make sure he was ready and he was ALWAYS going to start at some point early in the season. But fans here keep spinning this as if McD decided Peterman was a franchise QB and turned the franchise over to him. And the only reason we kept him over AJM was because no one offered us an asset for Peterman, and the Raiders foolishly offered us a 5th and they took it considering they were going to cut one of the two anyway and NP outplayed AJM anyway in preseason. And no coach ever goes out on Sundays and tries to tank. McD is going to try and win every single game, no matter how good the roster is or isnt. They knew this was going to be a rebuilding season, and both Beane and McD said that. And our teams biggest struggles were mostly with NP and DA, so injuries contributed heavily to several of those really bad weeks. I respect your opinion, but I cant see how any can look at McD and Beane and think they look bad. They broke the 17 year drought with a below average roster. They got rid of bad contracts or players who didn't fit the future plans. They drafted very well grabbing impactful starters in Tre and Milano, managed to grab 2 first round picks without giving up any future picks to land our QB and MLB to anchor both sides of the ball, and found value still in the draft after in guys like Taron and Phillips who look promising themselves. Not to mention guys like Levi and Gaines who show potential too. They found a gem in UDFA and other teams practice squad players. They weren't afraid to cut bait on a trade that didn't work and cut KB to make way for the younger players. And most importantly, Beane fixed the cap a year earlier than he projected while also grabbing a few extra draft picks this year too. I mean how is anyone upset with this? Drafting well, clearing out cap space, adding extra picks, finding value in UDFA and PS players, etc...I am quite pleased with the direction of this team. We got a top D right now with a young QB that is exciting and there is a lot to be excited about. So starting Peterman Week 1 was a last second adjustment when Allen's big pre-season audition went poorly? I disagree with that. If the plan was always to make Allen the starter, more would have been done to have a "mentor" on staff to guide him IMO. Obviously Peterman wasn't that guy and don't forget, they moved AJ off the team voluntarily. They also thought subtle tweaks to the O line would be sufficient, and they weren't. They had ample time to do something about the losses there and showed poor judgment. McBeane should be on the hot seat and had a poor year IMO. You're entitled to support them all you want. If they don't make quite a large series of successful key changes this off-season, and if Allen doesn't show steady improvement next year, I think they'll be gone. Look at Pegula's actions with the Sabres. He is not afraid to move people out the door when things aren't going according to plan. Ask Darcy Regier and Tim Murray what I'm talking about; they'll tell you. 3
Alphadawg7 Posted December 26, 2018 Posted December 26, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I disagree. Year 1 we did make the playoffs, but we also dumped a lot of talent and Whaley first round picks for draft picks. And we traded down out of 10 (which could have been Watson or Mahommes, but I digress). Sammy Darby Ragland Mr. Big Stuff That's rebuilding no matter how you slice it IMHO All of those were into the season already. Those were adjustments as they got to know the roster. Those were players being jettisoned, not adding building blocks to the future. This offseason was the real start to the rebuild where they had cleared out a lot of those players and started rebuilding. So I still see this as the first year of the rebuild. Year one they mostly inherited those guys outside the draft and they were sorting who wasnt part of the future. And while I get the remorse of Mahomes and Watson given they are further along (but also have more than double the time and experience in the NFL than Allen) I am personally sitting here with a lot of confidence in Allens future. I think his future is as bright as anyones in the NFL at this point, so I am not sweating the trade down...YET. If Allen doesn't get there then yeah, that trade down is gonna be a big mistake. But if Allen does get there, then I will be thrilled to have gotten both Tre and Allen through that process that also contributed to getting Edmunds too. 7 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Almost all of it. So starting Peterman Week 1 was a last second adjustment when Allen's big pre-season audition went poorly? I disagree with that. If the plan was always to make Allen the starter, more would have been done to have a "mentor" on staff to guide him IMO. Obviously Peterman wasn't that guy and don't forget, they moved AJ off the team voluntarily. They also thought subtle tweaks to the O line would be sufficient, and they weren't. They had ample time to do something about the losses there and showed poor judgment. McBeane should be on the hot seat and had a poor year IMO. You're entitled to support them all you want. If they don't make quite a large series of successful key changes this off-season, and if Allen doesn't show steady improvement next year, I think they'll be gone. Look at Pegula's actions with the Sabres. He is not afraid to move people out the door when things aren't going according to plan. Ask Darcy Regier and Tim Murray what I'm talking about; they'll tell you. No disrespect, you can disagree with it all you want...but it was widely reported and also confirmed by McD and Beane that going into the 3rd preseason game, the plan was to start Allen week 1. And they didn't have a lot to do in regards to the OL, we had a lot of cap issues this year to make room next year. And we had some young guys they expected to play better than they did on the OL bases on what they showed previously. Im quite happy at this stage with McBeane personally. I get you are not, and its fair to be skeptical and share a different opinion. I am just one that sees a lot more positives than negatives in what they have done to set up us for next year. Edited December 26, 2018 by Alphadawg7
Bill from NYC Posted December 26, 2018 Posted December 26, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Not to nitpick, but if you include Miller three starters were drafted in the last three years. Please, don't apologize for nitpicking. I appreciate it, and have been on this board for more than 20 years to discuss the Bills. Actually, Miller was drafted in 2015, so that would really be 4 years. To go a step further, in 2014 the Bills actually drafted 3 blockers. The problem was that they all sucked. I get teased all the time about my preference for Alabama players and I deserve it. The thing is, I watch all of their games and have for years. I posted on TSW that Cyrus Kouandjio was a terrible pick. It hurt me to do so because he was a great kid at Alabama but he was the 4th or perhaps even 5th best blocker on that Alabama team, and this was well before his incident. John C will vouch for me if he sees this post. He was surprised lol. Historically, the Bills neglect the OL. They traded away Glenn. That was bad but Jason Peters?????? Imo he is a first ballot hall of famer player. They passed on all world blockers to draft Leodis McKelvin. The Bills skipped right past great QBs and blockers in order to draft RBs and dbs, and that includes this regime as you well know. In any event yes, the Bills have used some picks on blockers. However, none were first round picks and many of them were awful. They focus on DBs, and have since Levy. It has never worked and never will. Thanks once again for the dialogue.
oldmanfan Posted December 26, 2018 Posted December 26, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Please, don't apologize for nitpicking. I appreciate it, and have been on this board for more than 20 years to discuss the Bills. Actually, Miller was drafted in 2015, so that would really be 4 years. To go a step further, in 2014 the Bills actually drafted 3 blockers. The problem was that they all sucked. I get teased all the time about my preference for Alabama players and I deserve it. The thing is, I watch all of their games and have for years. I posted on TSW that Cyrus Kouandjio was a terrible pick. It hurt me to do so because he was a great kid at Alabama but he was the 4th or perhaps even 5th best blocker on that Alabama team, and this was well before his incident. John C will vouch for me if he sees this post. He was surprised lol. Historically, the Bills neglect the OL. They traded away Glenn. That was bad but Jason Peters?????? Imo he is a first ballot hall of famer player. They passed on all world blockers to draft Leodis McKelvin. The Bills skipped right past great QBs and blockers in order to draft RBs and dbs, and that includes this regime as you well know. In any event yes, the Bills have used some picks on blockers. However, none were first round picks and many of them were awful. They focus on DBs, and have since Levy. It has never worked and never will. Thanks once again for the dialogue. I agree wholeheartedly they have to focus on the lines, especially on offense. I think I would focus on finding a couple guys in FA, particularly a quality C if they see one. It takes a while for young guys to learn the position and Allen could really use a real pro at C to help with blocking calls, etc. Maybe the guy from Denver. But if they also see a plug in guy first round at either OT spot I'd take him. I'm betting they go for a pass rusher in round 1 because this draft is talent heavy there. And I'd be Ok seeing that as well. I see a long future for Allen, but that's assuming a good O line. Football is still won or lost in the trenches from my perspective. 1
John from Riverside Posted December 27, 2018 Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Trogdor said: I keep seeing cap hell, but how much of that was self imposed? Does it matter? its a rebuild and we had players that did not fit
Trogdor Posted December 27, 2018 Posted December 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Does it matter? its a rebuild and we had players that did not fit It does matter when you could stay competitive and move on when the contracts came with less of a hit. It's not like they really got anything important from the contracts they shed. You can't use the cap excuse when they caused it. 1
oldmanfan Posted December 27, 2018 Posted December 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, Trogdor said: It does matter when you could stay competitive and move on when the contracts came with less of a hit. It's not like they really got anything important from the contracts they shed. You can't use the cap excuse when they caused it. Of course you can. They elected to rip the band aid off quickly rather than stretch it out. They were clear on that to Terry and everyone. They had players they didn't want. Good bye.
DuckyBoys Posted December 27, 2018 Posted December 27, 2018 We'll see, I like the past few drafts but am skeptical about them getting the right free agents after over paying for Star, Trent, Corey Coleman, trading for KB, mr halftime I'm retired Vonta. They have to spend that cap money wisely and not land more over paid under achievers . A couple more of those Star type deals and all that cap space gets eaten up and we get stuck with overpaid mediocrity for several years. Honestly I'd like Clay gone, Shady gone unless he agrees to serious restructure. DiMarco bye bye. Star/Trent Murphy are 20 mill next year, ugghh
Aussie Joe Posted December 27, 2018 Posted December 27, 2018 Star’s deal is essentially for another two more years at $11m per year... It’s probably twice what he is worth but at least they can move on after that when when it’s time to start paying White, Milano and Dawkins..
PUNT750 Posted December 27, 2018 Author Posted December 27, 2018 7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Well lucky for us then that next year is only year TWO of the 3 year plan. This will only be Beanes second draft. McD first year he was stuck with Rex and Whaleys roster. This was the first actual year of the rebuild where they tore out the pieces the were getting us no where and fixed the cap. Its amazing how out of touch some of you are with the realities and facts of this team. What do you think 2017 was??? Jettisoning Watkins, Dareus, Wood, Preston Brown and more for draft picks & salary caps savings wasn't part of a REBUILD?? 1
Trogdor Posted December 27, 2018 Posted December 27, 2018 4 hours ago, papazoid said: bills didn't over pay for Hyde & Poyer. tre devious, allen and Edmunds all contributed and played well in rookie season. last time I checked the bills haven't revealed their rebuild plans. clearing out the garbage contracts bodes well for future you take F/A and trades one deal at a time as they come. $100 mil under the cap fixes a lot of problems. no regime wins them all. fortunes change quickly in this league Hyde and Poyer were typical Whaley finds. Hyde especially was used as a hybrid safety/corner, so he probably flew under a lot of teams radar. He came from a very bad pass defense too. I like Edmunds, but I think his future is OLB and that leaves a big hole in the middle. White is getting picked on here at the end of the season, but can you imagine him and Darby? What idiot would trade him for a third string slot receiver? 1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said: Star’s deal is essentially for another two more years at $11m per year... It’s probably twice what he is worth but at least they can move on after that when when it’s time to start paying White, Milano and Dawkins.. Hope they pass on Dawkins or move him to RT. He isn't nearly as good as Glenn. They need to draft a stud who can actually recover. 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Of course you can. They elected to rip the band aid off quickly rather than stretch it out. They were clear on that to Terry and everyone. They had players they didn't want. Good bye. That's not a good thing. I'm not sure it takes much to convince Terry either. You still can't blame Whaley for the cap when you decide to jettison the talent and incur the penalties of an Overforf contract. Glenn most of all could've been huge for this current team. 1
oldmanfan Posted December 27, 2018 Posted December 27, 2018 40 minutes ago, Trogdor said: Hyde and Poyer were typical Whaley finds. Hyde especially was used as a hybrid safety/corner, so he probably flew under a lot of teams radar. He came from a very bad pass defense too. I like Edmunds, but I think his future is OLB and that leaves a big hole in the middle. White is getting picked on here at the end of the season, but can you imagine him and Darby? What idiot would trade him for a third string slot receiver? Hope they pass on Dawkins or move him to RT. He isn't nearly as good as Glenn. They need to draft a stud who can actually recover. That's not a good thing. I'm not sure it takes much to convince Terry either. You still can't blame Whaley for the cap when you decide to jettison the talent and incur the penalties of an Overforf contract. Glenn most of all could've been huge for this current team. Used Glenn to get Allen. Everyone hollers they have to draft a QB, they do so, then it's how you should've concentrated on I line.
Dr.Sack Posted December 27, 2018 Posted December 27, 2018 Me neither unless Allen is able to make a huge year 2 leap or our OL does what NE’s did to us this past Sunday.
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