Again people..... This is the first year of a REBUILD

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, greenyellowred said:

 

The point is the Bills will dominate next year. You can expect a wining record just like the Rams did in Goff's second year. You need to lighten up and enjoy the process.

I am hopeful of that too.  Hope the Bills have a fantastic offseason with great FA acquisitions and a stellar draft.  Then on to TC where there is an undisputed leader at the QB position instead of a 3-headed monster and that should set us up to be a solid team for 2018.  
 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to my dear Bills Fans.

 

Go Bills

[Rc2catch]

I will weigh in for a couple points I’ve seen. 

Allen and accuracy issues don’t worry me too much. I’m no professional but I’ve seen him trying to be smarter with his throws and check downs. They weren’t pretty but at least someone is showing him in the film room his chances at check downs and touch passes and he’s trying to adjust. 

You can have a TEAM who plays together and can help hide some accuracy issues. 

Mike Vick in Atlanta comes to mind as he could chuck it 50 yards on a dime and run like a maniac yet the guy couldn’t hit a 5 yard crossing route to save his life. He was terrible in short yardage accuracy. Luckily for him Alge Crumpler saved his behind a lot. 

What I have seen with Allen is the ability to takeover a game at times and being able to carry a team. He seems good at getting the team organized and to the line and having the play called and not getting delay of game penalties. I think the TEAM can have some success with his as a quarterback if given some playmakers. 

I see a lot of chatter about a true #1 receiver. 

In my opinion that don’t matter, in today’s NFL you just need playmakers. KC and the Rams don’t have a true #1 yet they have lethal passing attacks at times. It’s all scheme and matchups. Julio Jones and Hopkins are great but they don’t grow on trees and they also see 15 targets a game to get those numbers and I think in Jones case it hurts the falcons Matt Ryan forces throws to him non stop when other guys have to be open. 

 

As for our “rebuild” status and those calling Allen and Edmonds busts it’s still too early on. 

Lots of talk of next year next year. 

The rebuild is never complete. For anyone. 

It’s a constant shuffle of talent in this league and those who make playoff runs yearly are hitting on the talent they add. 

We have some money and draft capital to add some talent to important positions this offseason. 

This regime has proven time and time again they want guys who work harder and are about the team. That’s the mentality they want and they won’t settle for anything less. 

Next year I see the team being competitive. That’s my only expectation. Not super bowl favorites or nothing crazy. Just a hard team to beat who hopefully can get hot at the right times and make a playoff run. 

I like McDermott and I like what he wants to do. I just don’t think we’ve been able to see what they want to do yet. 

Anyone hoping/looking to see the chiefs and a lethal air attack I think will always hate McDermott cause that is not who they want to be. 

You can have success in this league, right now.. Running the ball effectively, working the play action and controlling the clock playing a stout defense. That’s been a recipe longer than a large portion of this board has been alive and guess what? It still works. 

With a run game, and some playmakers on offense this team could win now with the rag tag talent. Add in some hungry playmakers and competitive gamers and they can make some noise. 

Give me a Christian McCaffrey/Darren Sproles hybrid type runner/receiver and a desean Jackson/John brown speedy receiver to pair with a reliable hand Jared cook type tight end and some talent on the offensive line and this team is ready to win games now. 

Youre never gonna be all pro at every position. Stop looking to fill 12 holes. Fill 5 important ones and it’s a successful offseason. Other players will step up none of us expect to 

[Elite Poster]

7 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I've been saying this for a while now, but I'm losing confidence in both Josh Allen and Edmunds. Neither of them has progressed, despite claims to the contrary. Allen has the worst accuracy of any Bills QB that I've ever seen and I've been a fan since 1960. Edmunds appears to have the necessary physical assets, but is making absolutely no progress at all. In fact, their performance levels have slightly declined since opening day.

 

On top of that, Zay Jones will probably not be a #1 or even #2 WR and Dawkins showed no improvement in his sophomore campaign. Phillips and T Johnson showed some promise, but they aren't the future of this team -- Allen and Edmunds are.

 

With Allen's problems, I think it will be difficult for the Bills to attract top tier talent this offseason. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

 

Beane's 1st draft didn't go very well, so I have to hope he can do much better this next time around, but 2 1st round busts in 1 year doesn't give me much confidence in him.

 

Well, they'll have plenty of ammo this offseason, so let's hope they learn from their mistakes and do much better this time around.

 

Rex 9-7???

 

8-8, my mistake.

[Big Gun]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

A couple of different reasons

 

Because in all honesty.....you watch the games and the balls SHOULD be caught......the balls are often right on receivers.....he is not throwing to them late..he is not throwing too far behind them.....they are in places where NFL receivers SHOULD make those catches......how many catches should be touchdowns this year are not to Kelvin Benjamin.......right where a NFL receiver should be able to make that play

 

Because his ball velocity is hard to handle.....and I do NOT want him to slow it down.....the ball velocity he is using is allowing him to fit the ball into tight windows...it is allowing him to put the ball anywhere on the field and have a chance to make a play after the catch it.....I want our receivers to ADJUST to him instead

 

And last but not least.....Josh Allen is a downfield thrower.....and the farther the throw...the more the percentage of catch goes down BUT  Josh has once again been putting those balls in positions where a NFL receiver should catch it.....a PLAY MAKER should catch it.   I dont care about the sun.....that was a VERY catchable ball Josh through to our speed guy on this past Sunday and if he catch that....he probably scores

This, plus i've seen Allen become better at wasting a down by throwing it out of bounds a handful of times per game.

 

I think Allen will be a stud and am not worried one bit about his comp %, there are alot of factors that play into that and bad WR is the top factor.

[TigerJ]

The defense needs some tweaking, and to find some productive youth to replace our two defensive patriarchs (Kyle Williams and Lorenzo Alexander), but is not in bad shape otherwise./  The offense possibly has a long term answer at QB, and not much else.  That's where Beane has his work cut out for him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's a good question, though all you'll get are guesses, positive, negative and maybe a few more realistic ones.

 

I did some research a few years back on successful rebuilds. Plenty of rebuilds are not successful, and so far we just don't know which will be the case here. 

 

But I looked at successful rebuilds going back 30 years or so and basically found that the lion's share of successful rebuilds took four years or more. The average was around 4.3 years if I remember correctly. Very few became obviously successful in three years. Bill Walsh was one of those glorious exceptions, though, winning an SB in his third year after 2-14 and 6-10 seasons. So it is theoretically possible, but unlikely. And the ones that did become really good teams in their third year tended to have brought in their QB before their first year. 

 

I know people don't want to hear this, but even with some real improvement next year, becoming a top ten team just isn't very likely so early.

 

Thurman, could you share more about the rebuilds you've looked at, not just in the last 30 years but

 

1) since unrestricted free agency in 1992?

2) and especially, since the rookie wage scale was implemented in 2011?

 

'Cuz it seems to me there is a big element of "that was Then, this is Now" in how teams have to manage their players and try to improve before and after those two milestones.

 

Thanks

[HomeskillitMoorman]

On 12/24/2018 at 2:31 PM, H2o said:

Again with all of the p***ing and moaning threads all over I just wanted to remind everyone this is really the first year of a rebuild. It's all this player sucks, we whiffed on this person or that person, we should have done this, we should have done that, this coach, that coach, the GM sucks, fire someone, fire everyone, it makes this board hard to read anymore. We lost 2 good OL'man and traded away another for whatever reasons they had. We have a rookie QB without much help, but has still basically been the entire offense this year. We have a rag-tag group of WR's who have not done much to help said rookie QB. No running game. A defense that isn't having the same good fortune as last year. You can post your QB ratings and think it proves something, blame coaching, who we signed, who we didn't sign, blame the GM, whatever. We have a young team at many key positions right now, a FA period with $90,000,000 to spend, and 10 draft picks coming up in 2019. If this was the end of next year I would understand, but it's not. I hope Santa brings you guys some Preparation H and a 3 pack of Puffs with lotion for Christmas. 

 

I hope someone has addressed this in the 10 pages that I didn't read all the way through...but no this is not the first year of the rebuild. We're 2 offseasons in now. 

 

Going into offseason #3, we still have a ton of holes, more than we should after 2 offseasons. I do like Allen so if he ends up being the real deal that would at least be the most important position on the field that they got right which is huge. But that doesn't change all the deficiencies we still have and I think that's a legitimate gripe. 

 

I'm willing to see what happens this offseason, but I think people like yourself have this idea that nothing can be assessed during a rebuild. I don't care about the record, I've said many times that it's not a big deal to me this season. I wanted progress. Being in a rebuild doesn't change the fact that the gameday coaching hasn't been very good. It also doesn't change that the pace of filling holes with quality players has also been relatively slower than it should be. 

 

Also, everyone has the draft and a lot of teams are going to have big money to spend this offseason. The question is going to be if we have the people in place to be better at acquiring quality players through those avenues and putting them in position to succeed better than everyone else can. I think having a franchise QB can mask some of that but if the goal is to be a perennial powerhouse, which is what I personally want, I think the doubts are warranted. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 12/24/2018 at 1:03 PM, nuklz2594 said:

we have been rebuilding for 20 years.  

 

Man I hate this comment which is spewed all the time around here.  

 

Stop.  This regime has been together one year.  What happened the previous 2 decades has literally zero relevancy.  This regime is building THEIR team.  Who cares about anything before them.  Its utterly pointless to keep wallowing in that self pity and negativity as if THIS team has been struggling.  THIS team under McD has made the playoffs 1 out of 2 years.  THIS regime went out and got a QB to try and build around.  THIS regime has cleared the cap out to bring in better pieces to build a contender.  THIS regime got rid of many past mistakes.  

 

Get over the past people, its irrelevant.  THIS is the FIRST dedicated year to the rebuild.  And the team is moving a good direction with a defense good enough for the playoffs and a young QB to build around.  

[HomeskillitMoorman]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The entire premise that the Bills "needed" to rebuild to "get out of cap jail" is excuse making for the new regime. 

 

They didnt need to do any of those things. The inexperienced owners obviously hired a coach who convinced them otherwise. 

 

I expected them to struggle this year with hopeful improvements towards the end of the season.

 

I haven't seen it. The Patriots game was a good barometer of where they are. As a result, they got their asses handed to them by a sleep walking Patriots team. Looked like the same old Bills to me. Sloppy play and mistakes from every unit, our younger players outside of two or three guys are mostly underwhelming. Not confident the offensive woes can be fixed in one offseason. 

 

I agree with some of that and disagree with some of it as well. 

 

I did think a rebuild was necessary. I didn't think the team as constructed was properly built to make a championship run, especially given that some of our best players were older. For me, no matter where you are, the end game should be to have built a perennial Superbowl contender. And I was glad they continued on the path of a rebuild after they went 9-7 with a 1st round playoff exit. While it was a fun moment when it happened, I didn't think it changed anything as far as looking at what they really were.

 

What amazes me is that people say they agree with this, but also use it as a reason for why McBeane should get extra time for this process. I've heard so many people say the playoffs "bought" them an extra year or two. Why? It was a 9-7 one and done season. The team was mediocre and it was basically exactly where this team had been treading the last few years. For me it's still the same process with the same timeline, and yes, I do think they're behind. This team still has a lot of holes and deficiencies after 2 offseasons, and it's concerning.

 

That's what made the Pats game tough to watch. They basically did sleepwalk through that and it was still no contest. And they're not even that good this season. The front 7 was totally helpless too. I love Milano but he wouldn't have single-handedly changed that, especially not the way our d-line got pushed around. 

 

We have a longer way to go than we should after 2 offseasons and the problems with coaching, player development, and player acquisition are definitely visible. I like some of what I've seen out of Allen so that still goes a long way, but if the goal is a perennial powerhouse we are definitely behind. 

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The entire premise that the Bills "needed" to rebuild to "get out of cap jail" is excuse making for the new regime. 

 

They didnt need to do any of those things. The inexperienced owners obviously hired a coach who convinced them otherwise. 

 

I expected them to struggle this year with hopeful improvements towards the end of the season.

 

I haven't seen it. The Patriots game was a good barometer of where they are. As a result, they got their asses handed to them by a sleep walking Patriots team. Looked like the same old Bills to me. Sloppy play and mistakes from every unit, our younger players outside of two or three guys are mostly underwhelming. Not confident the offensive woes can be fixed in one offseason. 

Trust the process was a phrase we stole from the 76ers.  Their GM always said this while they were the worst team In the nba for 5 years.  

 

3 years is a long time in the nfl.  And I’d be more patient with SM if I say something unique or inspiring about this team.  This is Jauron ball.  Now if Allen is better than JP or Trent, SM will be in great shape.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

8-8, my mistake.

 

I think the point is a valid one: Marrone coached the team to a 9-7 record and Rex to an 8-8 record (with a couple of close games that could have swung the other way - Iggles 20-23 loss comes to mind, the famed Jax EJM London game where we had the lead with 5:27 left in the 4th and the D folded their tent for 7 to 31-34), both in seasons where 9-7 wasn't good enough for the last wildcard slot.

 

We had a team that was good enough to win at least as often as not with often poor or marginal QB play.  We had gone from being a destination you couldn't pay FA enough to come to, to a destination FA were more willing to sign.

 

We needed a QB.  Was the total roster churn 1) really needed?  2) the best plan? 3) necessary to emerge from "cap jail"?

 

I've kind of made various points in other past threads, but one example of the math that says "No" is:

-Watkins 5th year option $13k for 2018

-Benjamin 5th year option $9k for 2018 + Corey Coleman guaranteed salary $3.5M = $12.5M

Watkins contributing was not a sure thing, but limited as his contributions were to the Rams and to KC this year, he still racked up 387 more yards than the Bills got from Benjamin and Coleman over the last 2 years.   Or, we could have made more of a push to re-sign Woods and Goodwin - Woods cap hit was $7M in 2017 and Goodwin $3.5M.  That's $10.5M, and less than the money we spent this year (in "cap hell") on  Benjamin and Coleman.  So much for "no money".

 

The bottom line that the "rebuild!  only the 2nd year! cap jail!" needs to address and hasn't, to my knowledge, is this:  A rebuild is only going to succeed, in any amount of time, if the people in charge make better player personnel decisions and bring in better, more effective players than the ones they let walk in FA or trade.

 

So far, the best that can be said is that McDermott and Beane have a very mixed record here, and it's clearly NOT as limited by cap as some here would have us believe (see above).

[Wayne Cubed]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the point is a valid one: Marrone coached the team to a 9-7 record and Rex to an 8-8 record (with a couple of close games that could have swung the other way - Iggles 20-23 loss comes to mind, the famed Jax EJM London game where we had the lead with 5:27 left in the 4th and the D folded their tent for 7 to 31-34), both in seasons where 9-7 wasn't good enough for the last wildcard slot.

 

We had a team that was good enough to win at least as often as not with often poor or marginal QB play.  We had gone from being a destination you couldn't pay FA enough to come to, to a destination FA were more willing to sign.

 

We needed a QB.  Was the total roster churn 1) really needed?  2) the best plan? 3) necessary to emerge from "cap jail"?

 

I've kind of made various points in other past threads, but one example of the math that says "No" is:

-Watkins 5th year option $13k for 2018

-Benjamin 5th year option $9k for 2018 + Corey Coleman guaranteed salary $3.5M = $12.5M

Watkins contributing was not a sure thing, but limited as his contributions were to the Rams and to KC this year, he still racked up 387 more yards than the Bills got from Benjamin and Coleman over the last 2 years.   Or, we could have made more of a push to re-sign Woods and Goodwin - Woods cap hit was $7M in 2017 and Goodwin $3.5M.  That's $10.5M, and less than the money we spent this year (in "cap hell") on  Benjamin and Coleman.  So much for "no money".

 

The bottom line that the "rebuild!  only the 2nd year! cap jail!" needs to address and hasn't, to my knowledge, is this:  A rebuild is only going to succeed, in any amount of time, if the people in charge make better player personnel decisions and bring in better, more effective players than the ones they let walk in FA or trade.

 

So far, the best that can be said is that McDermott and Beane have a very mixed record here, and it's clearly NOT as limited by cap as some here would have us believe (see above).

 

That's exactly where I come down on the situation. Fans love to point at Watkins and say how badly he has preformed for the Rams/Chiegs but the reality is he's done better than what McD/Beane brought in to replace him and would have cost the same price, they had the rights to him until the end of this season. And he would fit this speed WR game they are now trying to employ. Instead McD/Beane decided they needed a big body possession WR, who they saw all those years in Carolina. Well actually they thought an oft injured WR from Philly would be enough and moving up to draft the wrong WR in the 2nd.

 

It was a poor and failed decision, that much can't be argued.

 

It terms of offensive talent, I'm not sure they have shown they can evaluate that side of the ball, so what makes anyone think they can fix that side of the ball with FA and this draft. They need a WR1 and WR2. Foster is a WR3 for me at this point and McKenzie is a WR4. Might as well keep Jones around as he's cheap and can be WR5. I'd look for a trade for a WR1 because one isn't coming available in FA and try again to draft a WR2, as I'm not sure there is a WR1 in this draft.

 

And I think Allen has done a good job considering the situation and has improved, in areas, it has to make you wonder if they have correctly evaluated him.