Leslie Frazier has never been a good DC

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

It's getting old hearing the TOP 5 defense regurgitated non sense..top 5 in ypg..bottom of the league in stats that matter like PPG, TURNOVERS,SACKS etc

 

...riddle me this....2018 Bills defense is ranked #1 or #2........Bears 1985 defense was ranked #1.........so are they comparable?......5-10 and scheduling tee times for January versus 15-1 and the Lombardi......sound similar to me......

[hondo in seattle]

17 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....the #1 or #2 ranking based on yards is misleading.....gashed for 273 on the ground yesterday, the third or fourth time given up >200 yards......point differential is -130....there are other coaching priorities to be addressed first.....putting aside the 5-10 record because that is more on the dynamic duo of McClappy & Dabumble's offensive (HIGHLY) prowess.....would like to see Frazier be more aggressive along with the late, great Jim Johnson's disciple....as much as I hate the guy and don't even want to spew his name, Airhorn Greggy's Browns' D is "get after it"......

 

The stats really aren't that misleading.  We're #2 in yards allowed because we've been 'gashed' less than other teams.  Our D had a bad day against the Pats.   Every team has bad days.  Other teams have had more bad days than us and that's why they're below us in the defensive stats.  

 

Point differential is a blended O/D stat and our popgun offensive isn't helping that number.  The O is not producing points, not holding onto the ball, and not winning the battle of field position.  All those things put stress on the D and effect point differential and points-allowed stats.  

 

Our D isn't great.  But it is good.  

[Billever76]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

There's rightful criticism of a coordinator whose talent laden squad has come up empty when the chips are down.   A top 5 DC rarely gets play calling duties stripped from him.

 

Daboll's OC experience can only be described as the perfect confluence of landing in spots where the offensive personnel is not NFL worthy.

Frazier has had play calling duties stripped of him everywhere he has been as a DC..want to know the common complaint of fans where he has been?..NO adjustments is one,can't sack the QB or get consistent pressure and his defenses tend to have 2 or more blowout losses every year

Just now, hondo in seattle said:

 

The stats really aren't that misleading.  We're #2 in yards allowed because we've been 'gashed' less than other teams.  Our D had a bad day against the Pats.   Every team has bad days.  Other teams have had more bad days than us and that's why they're below us in the defensive stats.  

 

Point differential is a blended O/D stat and our popgun offensive isn't helping that number.  The O is not producing points, not holding onto the ball, and not winning the battle of field position.  All those things put stress on the D and effect point differential and points-allowed stats.  

 

Our D isn't great.  But it is good.  

We are #1 or # 2 in ypg bc of the field position we have gave opposing teams all year long (worst in league)..ppg is what matters and we are *****

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, GG said:

 

There's rightful criticism of a coordinator whose talent laden squad has come up empty when the chips are down.   A top 5 DC rarely gets play calling duties stripped from him.

 

Daboll's OC experience can only be described as the perfect confluence of landing in spots where the offensive personnel is not NFL worthy.

Or maybe Daboll sucks as an OC and only gets hired to be an OC by bad nfl teams.  

[Billever76]

Riddle me this..if Frazier is someone you want to hang our hat on and potentially think we will win anything meaningful with then answer me this...at halftime when it was obvious Brady wasn't himself and was hurting why wouldn't Frazier adjust to the Patriots misdirection jet sweeps,off tackle runs and such?..where was a run blitz?..where where our lbers?..oh yeah they are off in la la Land preventing that vaunted Pat's passing attack while the ran it down our throats...forget throwing a ***** at Brady I'd like to throw one at Frazier for having zero answer to what was beating his defense at will all game long...NOW that's a damn good defensive coordinator lmao

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Frazier has had play calling duties stripped of him everywhere he has been as a DC..want to know the common complaint of fans where he has been?..NO adjustments is one,can't sack the QB or get consistent pressure and his defenses tend to have 2 or more blowout losses every year

We are #1 or # 2 in ypg bc of the field position we have gave opposing teams all year long (worst in league)..ppg is what matters and we are *****

This is such a weird crusade.  You are more mad about our defense than our 31st ranked offense, which consistently puts us in bad spots?  Didn’t our D get two turnovers in NE territory?  

 

Weird flex but ok.

[Billever76]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Or maybe Daboll sucks as an OC and only gets hired to be an OC by bad nfl teams.  

Frazier and Daboll both are belove average/poor coordinators..it looks to me we have the same problem we always have had...cheap retread coaching and a rookie HC who was eager to get his shot..what do they have in common?..they come cheap!

[GG]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Or maybe Daboll sucks as an OC and only gets hired to be an OC by bad nfl teams.  

 

Funny how a guy who apparently sucks was on Belichick's OC short list if McDaniels took the job in Indy.

[ghostwriter]

Just now, Billever76 said:

Frazier and Daboll both are belove average/poor coordinators..it looks to me we have the same problem we always have had...cheap retread coaching and a rookie HC who was eager to get his shot..what do they have in common?..they come cheap!

Actually McD is getting paid well, Terry Pegula is a goddamn Saint as far as I'm concerned.

[Billever76]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is such a weird crusade.  You are more mad about our defense than our 31st ranked offense, which consistently puts us in bad spots?  Didn’t our D get two turnovers in NE territory?  

 

Weird flex but ok.

Our offense is highly void of talent our defense not so much..we have a great secondary,average dline and average lber....our offense is poor all across..Frazier has more to work with and isn't doing much better.

8 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Funny how a guy who apparently sucks was on Belichick's OC short list if McDaniels took the job in Indy.

Give me anything you have besides hearsay of what Daboll has ever done as an NFL coordinator to prove he is anything but what his production says he is!!??

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is such a weird crusade.  You are more mad about our defense than our 31st ranked offense, which consistently puts us in bad spots?  Didn’t our D get two turnovers in NE territory?  

 

Weird flex but ok.

I'm worried about both our offense and our defense let alone our special teams....we are a mess all across the board...I'm just saying we have more issues that need fixed other just offense..and I'm only calling out the defense bc it's the best unit on our team yet I feel they are not utilized to our players strengths and being handicapped by an outdated scheme by a retread coordinator

Edited December 24, 2018 by Billever76

[Bockeye]

57 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Frazier is a better DC than Daboll is an OC. Change my mind. 

Our #1 WR is an UNDRAFTED ROOKIE.  Enough said. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Or maybe Daboll sucks as an OC and only gets hired to be an OC by bad nfl teams.  

 

 

...interesting to review his resume'.....he was OC for the 2011 Fins under Sparano who was fired in favor of Bowles.....6-10 record and gone after one year....victim of lousy personnel?....lacking in teaching/developmental abilities?....victim of circumstance with incoming HC Philbin who wanted Sherman as OC?.....next stop is 2012 with KC and Crennel as HC....2-14 record.....and gone after one year....victim of lousy personnel?....lacking in teaching/developmental abilities?....victim of circumstance with incoming HC Reid who wanted Pederson as OC?....so two OC stints each lasting a year?...victim of circumstance as in a "new HC wants HIS own guys"?.....if he has redeeming qualities as an OC, particularly as a teacher and developer, do you keep him?.....or was he a dual victim of circumstance because Sherman and Pederson were far superior?.....

[Steptide]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Frazier is a better DC than Daboll is an OC. Change my mind. 

Fraziers talented players > dabolls talented players 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Steptide

[GG]

5 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Our offense is highly void of talent our defense not so much..we have a great secondary,average dline and average lber....our offense is poor all across..Frazier has more to work with and isn't doing much better.

Give me anything you have besides hearsay of what Daboll has ever done as an NFL coordinator to prove he is anything but what his production says he is!!??

 

I'll hold off judging an NFL OC whose leading talents were Matt Cassell, Brady Quinn, Matt Moore and Colt McCoy.

 

Judging this season is solely based on whether he placed his players in a position to succeed.  It's hard to argue the question of whether the Bills' offense suffered far more from lack of execution rather than piss poor design.

[Billever76]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I'll hold off judging an NFL OC whose leading talents were Matt Cassell, Brady Quinn, Matt Moore and Colt McCoy.

 

Judging this season is solely based on whether he placed his players in a position to succeed.  It's hard to argue the question of whether the Bills' offense suffered far more from lack of execution rather than piss poor design.

I will say Daboll did improve in spurts...but his predictable play calling..run run pass...his inability to find any semblance of a run game and some real head scratching play calls on 3rd and shorts all year long are red flags to me

[hondo in seattle]

9 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

It's getting old hearing the TOP 5 defense regurgitated non sense..top 5 in ypg..bottom of the league in stats that matter like PPG, TURNOVERS,SACKS etc

 

I'm uncertain about your knowledge of stats.  Yards-per-game is a meaningful - if imperfect - stat.   

 

We're #18 in points-per-game which, granted, is a more meaningful stat.  That puts us in the middle of the NFL, not at the "bottom" as you state. 

 

We're #1 in forced fumbles and # 8 in interceptions so I'm not sure why you say we're in the "bottom" of defensive turnovers.  

 

Defensively, besides yards per game, we do well in some other stats that matter...

 

#1 in forced fumbles

#1 in passing yards

#1 in yards per completion

#2 in yards per play

#3 in yards per drive

#3 in net yards per pass play

#6 in drive success rate (a FO metric)

#6 in passer rating

#8 in interceptions

#9 in passing TDs 

#10 in rush yards per attempt

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

All I know is that Jet sweep debacle yesterday was embarrassing. Hey Sean yell over to Leslie to drop a safety wide. Shaq is too slow to get out there and Tremaine just gets caught up in the wash. Belichick just ran wide all day. 

46 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Shutting down Brady whilst giving up 270+ yards rushing isn't a good accomplishment in any way, shape or form.

We didn't shut down Brady, they just chose to run wide all day. Leslie had no clue?

[Billever76]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

All I know is that Jet sweep debacle yesterday was embarrassing. Hey Sean yell over to Leslie to drop a safety wide. Shaq is too slow to get out there and Tremaine just gets caught up in the wash. Belichick just ran wide all day. 

We didn't shut down Brady, they just chose to run wide all day. Leslie had no clue?

Exactly..I just want any of Leslie Frazier supporters to show me one time his adjustments when his game plan isn't working?...just once?..and how many blowouts do we have since he has been our DC?

[hondo in seattle]

46 minutes ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

McDermott wanted guys like Star and Trent Murphy.  During the game he also made calls for the defensive line to drop back into pass protection instead of being aggressive.  McDermott is clueless on assessing talent levels.  When we needed offensive linemen Sean went defensive.  To the tune of our limited salary cap pushing it to thirty million and lowering our cap to ten million.  You know pretty soon he’s going to run out of scapegoats like his mentors. 

How do you know what McD "wanted"?  Wanting is a feeling that exists within a person.  Unless McD articulated his wants to you - and I suspect he didn't - I don't think you know what he wanted.  All you know - to a small degree - is what he did.  Coaches are rarely in the position of doing what they really want - which is fielding a team with Pro Bowlers at every position.  What we see on the field is what they've been able to do with the resources they got.  It's the negotiated compromise between aspiration and realism.  

 

And McD is clueless in assessing talent?  McD is the coach, not the GM.  In any case, if you are going to evaluate McD's performance, please share your qualification to make such extreme global remarks like "McDermott is clueless."  How many rings do you have?   

 

McD - like all coaches - has made mistakes but he's far from clueless.  The question that remains is if he's making smaller mistakes than other NFL HCs?  And is he counterbalancing his mistakes with enough good decisions to create a winning team?   These are questions worth arguing.   NFL coaches exist on a continuum.   None are perfect geniuses and none are entirely clueless.  They've all worked many years to improve their craft.  Some are more successful at this than others.  I'm not sure yet where to rank McD because this year he's been saddled with the lowest paid roster in the NFL.  It's hard to look good right now with these players.  

 

I do believe, though, that everything going on with the salary cap is purely intentional.  Beane has talked very openly about the need for clearing up cap space.  We have tons of cap space available in 2019 and 2020 because of Beane's cap management decisions.  Bean's roster moves hurt this year but give us a better future.  

 

[Billever76]

And in no way am I saying FRAZIER is the most pressing need to be addressed....In my opinion He will need replaced for this team to ever get over the hump...or we draft to his needs and have two dominant edge rushers in which case we have neither