Arizona Cardinals: HC Steve Wilks fired (potential add to Bills staff?)

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Nothing specific in the Patriots game comes to mind - was not really focusing on that one game in particular so sorry if that is where you thought that was going.

 

Against NE the Bills were up against a coach who knew what most of us on the Wall have known all year - that the Bills have been suspect at stopping the run, even when going with their run-stopping package in the red zone they have struggled to get it done. Belichick just decided to keep running the ball till the Bills could prove they could stop it. They couldn't.

 

That is personnel, lack of push from the d-line, execution - lack of fill and/or tackling from Edmunds, and a few times lack of discipline and contain on the edges.

 

My comment was more a sense of how Frazier has done over the course of the year and my thoughts around his interaction with McDermott and why McDermott may want to go with a DC he has worked with before and may mesh with better.

Yeah sorry about that my post does not really go with your question. 

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Yeah sorry about that my post does not really go with your question. 

 

No worries - that game left a vomit taste in my mouth too.

[purple haze]

On 12/24/2018 at 1:15 PM, WideNine said:

 

I have felt for a while now that Frazier is a bit more laid back than McD's approach and his forte does not seem to be "in game" management of the "D".

 

In that, I simply mean that it seems to take a while or discussion over half-time before he makes the adjustments that the D needs to make - sometimes the net effect is that our team is already in a hole by the time he figures out how to stop the other team from digging the hole any deeper.

 

Outside of that, he is a good team guy and usually his players play hard for him. Still not sure yesterday if I was seeing a defense mailing-it-in or simply put so off their game plan by their inability to stop the run that it made the whole effort seem ugly - granted they did get a few turnovers.

Sometimes the adjustment is the players have to execute what they are supposed to execute.  No coach is going to junk a week's worth of study and preparation before halftime.  Dudes have to win their match ups, fill the gaps they're supposed to and complete tackles.  It's not always the scheme.  Bills weren't doing the basics in New England.

[CLTbills]

On 12/24/2018 at 10:32 AM, Rc2catch said:

Not to play the race card but only way I see anyone even interviewing Frazier is over the Rooney rule. Maybe he brings more leadership than defensive coordinator skills but if we’re basing it off of what he’s done here, with this defense I wouldn’t think that warrants a head coach gig 

We have the number 2 overall defense in the NFL.

 

Why are you saying that " if we’re basing it off of what he’s done here, with this defense I wouldn’t think that warrants a head coach gig"?

 

Just curious.

 

 

[Captain Hindsight]

On 12/24/2018 at 10:32 AM, Rc2catch said:

Not to play the race card but only way I see anyone even interviewing Frazier is over the Rooney rule. Maybe he brings more leadership than defensive coordinator skills but if we’re basing it off of what he’s done here, with this defense I wouldn’t think that warrants a head coach gig 

Number one rated defense in a bunch of categories on a team with 50 million in dead cap? 

 

I'd listen to him

[CLTbills]

1 minute ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Number one rated defense in a bunch of categories on a team with 50 million in dead cap? 

 

I'd listen to him

It's funny, he said "not to play the race card" and essentially that he hasn't done anything to earn a HC look, when he absolutely has.

[Captain Hindsight]

On 12/24/2018 at 8:41 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....certainly agree....at the same time, this is what bugs me about McDermott being a disciple of the legendary great DC Jim Johnson that we do not see................

 

..."Widely regarded as one of the best defensive coordinators in the National Football League (NFL), Johnson was especially known for being a master architect of blitzes, disguising them skillfully and keeping offenses constantly off balance..."

So was Rex Ryan 

14 hours ago, mannc said:

When a coach has shown that he is not up to the job, it’s dumb to keep him around another year for the sake of continuity.  For example, although I supported the hire initially, I felt there was no reason to give Rex a second season in Buffalo.  

 

After Sunday, I’m starting to feel that way about giving McDermott a third season.  I don’t think there’s any way he’ll ever win a game against Belichick unless the Pats are resting half their team.  He’s in over his head.

If Robert Foster catches the long ball he lost in the sun and Croom doesnt fumble in the redzone that game is tied in the 4th. House money missed a FG too. 

 

For a team with so little depth and injured all over the place, I thought they gave NE a game

[mannc]

8 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

So was Rex Ryan 

If Robert Foster catches the long ball he lost in the sun and Croom doesnt fumble in the redzone that game is tied in the 4th. House money missed a FG too. 

 

For a team with so little depth and injured all over the place, I thought they gave NE a game

No one sets the bar lower than Bills’ fans.

[Rc2catch]

1 hour ago, CLTbills said:

We have the number 2 overall defense in the NFL.

 

Why are you saying that " if we’re basing it off of what he’s done here, with this defense I wouldn’t think that warrants a head coach gig"?

 

Just curious.

 

 

Look at his head coaching record for starters.

And this defense while good is misleading because of the “rank” 

There is rarely pressure on the quarterback, soft zones that have been destroyed all season long with mid range easy passing attacks. The stats may get skewed over the pathetic offense for some of the season and teams letting up in the blowout wins. 

I’m not bashing the guy at all I just don’t see where he’s done such an amazing job here he’d be a hot head coach candidate 

[T master]

IF Frazier decides to take a different gig at the end of the year & they bring WIlks in i believe Kyle will retire the only way he stays is if Frazier stays ...

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, CLTbills said:

We have the number 2 overall defense in the NFL.

 

Why are you saying that " if we’re basing it off of what he’s done here, with this defense I wouldn’t think that warrants a head coach gig"?

 

Just curious.

 

 

 

Being a good HC IMO is more about "who you know" and your ability to pull together a viable staff. Leslie has been around the league long enough and should have those kinds of contacts. Just a matter of convincing owners you are a good fit for the role after that.

 

Not sure why, but I think Leslie could do the job. He supposedly turned down the Colts HC position, saying that it was not a good role... they are not doing too terribly this year. He did spend time with the Vikings as an interim HC, and they seemed better prepared and he did settle things down and got a team that was spiraling out of control to 3-3.

 

Some folks got rankled because I said that he may not be the best sideline coach, but in fairness I think he puts the players where they need to be to be successful if they are capable of executing the scheme he has come up with - sometimes they are not. I feel there are times he is a bit too conservative in a defense that should feature the blitz more often (especially against rookie QB's), but being an HC is a different skill set and I cannot say that he would not be an improvement over some of the guys out there now serving as HCs.

[freddyjj]

On 12/24/2018 at 6:29 PM, John from Riverside said:

What D scheme does Wilkes run?  We need to stop flipping it every 2 years

Wilks runs the same scheme we run now - McDermott's Carolina D.

I would be in favor of pursuing him as DC and make Frazier Asst HC if need be - but let Wilks run D.  McD won't have to make play calls if Wilks is running the D

[YoloinOhio]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Bills secondary coach John Butler gets some looks for open DC positions. He’s been a DC in the past in college  has done a nice job with our young CBs 

Edited December 26, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[WideNine]

12 hours ago, purple haze said:

Sometimes the adjustment is the players have to execute what they are supposed to execute.  No coach is going to junk a week's worth of study and preparation before halftime.  Dudes have to win their match ups, fill the gaps they're supposed to and complete tackles.  It's not always the scheme.  Bills weren't doing the basics in New England.

 

Wont argue with you. There is nothing more frustrating for a coach than to put your player in position to make the play and they whiff on a weak arm tackle or have bad technique.

 

Can't say that does not happen with the Bills. 

 

That being said, when I talk about in game changes I am not talking about a complete overhaul of your game plan, it is more about making some tweaks in alignment or personnel to adjust to what the other team is doing, or how well your starters are executing the game plan. I am fully aware that there are times you cannot do a damn thing because you have what you have. Usually the drop in talent is a bit less pronounced the closer you get to pro-level talent, but the gaps in player abilities are also under a microscope and more readily exploited by opposing teams.

 

Seeing what we saw of the Bills, if I were game-planning against the Bills I would use some misdirection runs, counters, that isolate Edmunds as he still bites on play action and misdirects and struggles to recover and be in position with good technique and leverage. I would also isolate runs on the edges against defensive alignments where I believe Wallace would have to come up in run support because, coverage ability aside, the kid hurts the eyes when he "tries" to make a tackle.

 

If we see that, then Frazier sees that too. The question is, how does he prepare his starters to respond if Miami has not mailed it in and tries to take advantage of what they saw in the NE tape?

 

[SoTier]

On 12/25/2018 at 10:59 PM, John from Riverside said:

I think that McD has a very undertalented team that is gonna make it very hard for him to compete against one of the all time greats......in the EXTREMELY limited times he has even had a chance to coach against him.

 

We cant run the ball against anyone even BB

BB has a extremely good record against rookie QBs

 

Come on man.....the patriots have 10 wins for a reason

 

Who's fault is it that the team is "undertalented"????   It's McDermott who was in charge of personnel decisions since some time before the 2017 draft, so the reason the team is so lacking in NFL talent is squarely on him.  He ran the 2017 draft.  He decided that he didn't need/want Watkins or Dareus or Taylor or Brown or Glenn.  He decided to pass on Patrick Mahomes and DeShaun Watson and he had to had have Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds so much that he traded up for them while players like JuJu Smith-Schuster, Leighton Vander Esche, and Darius Leonard were all available when the Bills original trade spot came up.  Aside from Tre White and Matt Milano, none of the 2017 draft class have been NFL starting caliber players by the end of their second year.  The only reason that Jones and Dawkins are starting for the Bills is because the Bills do not have NFL caliber talent on offense except for RB (McCoy and Ivory), TE (Clay), and QB (Allen).   While Allen has looked promising as a rookie, the rest of the 2018 draft class so far has been unimpressive, including the much-touted Edmunds.

 

The team's lack of talent, which is squarely McDermott's fault for a string of poor personnel decisions, simply obscures McDermott's incompetence.

First and foremost, he  doesn't recognize the importance of natural talent and is unwilling to accommodate it (as in the cases of Watkins and Dareus, and possibly Incognito).  He also rigidly attempts to fit square pegs in round holes.  Both Dawkins and Edmunds have struggled because they may not be physically suited to play the positions McDermott wants them to play.  The entire debacle with the blocking schemes for the OL in 2017 and the entire Nathan Peterman saga were both examples of McDermott's philosophy over reality.  Training and hard work can not overcome all physical and/or mental limitations.

Second, McDermott's teams have appeared to be too unprepared and too undisciplined too often over the last two seasons.  They have been blown out much too often, and in several games, the final score doesn't reflect how badly the team was out played from the opening kickoff.  It has come out "flat" on numerous occasions.

Third, the handling of the QB situation in 2018 should get both Beane and McDermott fired.  Why is a WR coach "coaching" a supposed future franchise QB?  Why the hell does Matt Barkley merit being given a two year extension to "mentor" Allen?  Allen needs a real QB coach not a confident.  The Bills need a solid backup QB not a street FA turned backup QB/pseudo-coach!  Then there's the whole stupid Peterman and Anderson comedy act.

 

But, hey, John, keep those convenient excuses for McDermott (and his henchman Beane) coming, although you might want to come up with some new ones for 2019 when your boys continue their pursuit of making the Bills even more irrelevant than they've been for the last two decades.

[GunnerBill]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 12:28 AM, mannc said:

When a coach has shown that he is not up to the job, it’s dumb to keep him around another year for the sake of continuity.  For example, although I supported the hire initially, I felt there was no reason to give Rex a second season in Buffalo.  

 

After Sunday, I’m starting to feel that way about giving McDermott a third season.  I don’t think there’s any way he’ll ever win a game against Belichick unless the Pats are resting half their team.  He’s in over his head.

 

See I was there with you on Rex (although actually I never liked the hire). I'd have fired him after the 1st season because he had a really talented roster and majorly underperformed.

 

I am not there yet on McDermott. I think this was a terrible roster this year. It has about 6 or 7 good pieces on defense, a talented but still developing rookie QB, a league average left tackle and not much else. I predicted 5-11 or 6-10 and he has finished right around where I think he should have with this roster. The question I have is how will he perform with a talented roster.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I was there with you on Rex (although actually I never liked the hire). I'd have fired him after the 1st season because he had a really talented roster and majorly underperformed.

 

I am not there yet on McDermott. I think this was a terrible roster this year. It has about 6 or 7 good pieces on defense, a talented but still developing rookie QB, a league average left tackle and not much else. I predicted 5-11 or 6-10 and he has finished right around where I think he should have with this roster. The question I have is how will he perform with a talented roster.

I don’t strongly disagree.  But i believe McDermott shares a significant part of the blame for the week roster, and i just haven’t seen any evidence that the guy is anything more than a defensive coordinator who got promoted beyond his abilities.  

 

I don’t see anything smart or innovative about his approach and I see very little, other than his rhetoric and hand-clapping, that separates him from the previous 6 or 7 crappy HC hires this franchise has had to endure.  That was the most beatable NE team I’ve seen in 20 years and McDermott just wasn’t up to the task; in fact, it wasn’t even a competitive game.  If McDermott were fired on Monday, do you think he’d get another chance with a different organization?  I certainly don’t.

Edited December 28, 2018 by mannc

[Rochesterfan]

On 12/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Though I watched maybe one Arizona game this year, my understanding is their defense was actually pretty good. Just what i heard though. 

 

Sucks they aren’t giving him a little more time. 

 

The defense definitely had it moments where it dominated and I think they have a chance if given time, but I think they were surprised to get Rosen and now want a offensive guy to work with the young QB.  

 

I do not think that was really the plan, but now they are adjusting.  

 

It is sucks for that staff.

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don’t strongly disagree.  But i believe McDermott shares a significant part of the blame for the week roster, and i just haven’t seen any evidence that the guy is anything more than a defensive coordinator who got promoted beyond his abilities.  

 

I don’t see anything smart or innovative about his approach and I see very little, other than his rhetoric and hand-clapping, that separates him from the previous 6 or 7 crappy HC hires this franchise has had to endure.  That was the most beatable NE team I’ve seen in 20 years and McDermott just wasn’t up to the task; in fact, it wasn’t even a competitive game.  If McDermott were fired on Monday, do you think he’d get another chance with a different organization?  I certainly don’t.

 

Yes, I do. Around the league getting that Bills team last year to 9-7 is seen even more favourably than it is in Buffalo. I have a friend (a Bears fan) who thinks McDermott should be on the coach of the year shortlist this year for getting this Bills roster to 5 wins. We just have so little talent. As for that was the most beatable NE team.... I agree.... but this is the worst Bills roster since 2010 and it might even be worse than that team.

 

EDIT: I should say mannc - I agree that McDermott is partly culpable for the tear down of the roster. He has a hand in that definitely. This offseason is huge for both him and Beane.

Edited December 28, 2018 by GunnerBill

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Who's fault is it that the team is "undertalented"????   It's McDermott who was in charge of personnel decisions since some time before the 2017 draft, so the reason the team is so lacking in NFL talent is squarely on him.  He ran the 2017 draft.  He decided that he didn't need/want Watkins or Dareus or Taylor or Brown or Glenn.  He decided to pass on Patrick Mahomes and DeShaun Watson and he had to had have Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds so much that he traded up for them while players like JuJu Smith-Schuster, Leighton Vander Esche, and Darius Leonard were all available when the Bills original trade spot came up.  Aside from Tre White and Matt Milano, none of the 2017 draft class have been NFL starting caliber players by the end of their second year.  The only reason that Jones and Dawkins are starting for the Bills is because the Bills do not have NFL caliber talent on offense except for RB (McCoy and Ivory), TE (Clay), and QB (Allen).   While Allen has looked promising as a rookie, the rest of the 2018 draft class so far has been unimpressive, including the much-touted Edmunds.

 

The team's lack of talent, which is squarely McDermott's fault for a string of poor personnel decisions, simply obscures McDermott's incompetence.

First and foremost, he  doesn't recognize the importance of natural talent and is unwilling to accommodate it (as in the cases of Watkins and Dareus, and possibly Incognito).  He also rigidly attempts to fit square pegs in round holes.  Both Dawkins and Edmunds have struggled because they may not be physically suited to play the positions McDermott wants them to play.  The entire debacle with the blocking schemes for the OL in 2017 and the entire Nathan Peterman saga were both examples of McDermott's philosophy over reality.  Training and hard work can not overcome all physical and/or mental limitations.

Second, McDermott's teams have appeared to be too unprepared and too undisciplined too often over the last two seasons.  They have been blown out much too often, and in several games, the final score doesn't reflect how badly the team was out played from the opening kickoff.  It has come out "flat" on numerous occasions.

Third, the handling of the QB situation in 2018 should get both Beane and McDermott fired.  Why is a WR coach "coaching" a supposed future franchise QB?  Why the hell does Matt Barkley merit being given a two year extension to "mentor" Allen?  Allen needs a real QB coach not a confident.  The Bills need a solid backup QB not a street FA turned backup QB/pseudo-coach!  Then there's the whole stupid Peterman and Anderson comedy act.

 

But, hey, John, keep those convenient excuses for McDermott (and his henchman Beane) coming, although you might want to come up with some new ones for 2019 when your boys continue their pursuit of making the Bills even more irrelevant than they've been for the last two decades.

 

 

I totally disagree about the roster.

 

The roster is squarely on the previous GM that overpayed for guys and then gave stupid contracts.  The decisions by McDermott and Beane were made to begin cleaning up the mess - getting rid of underperforming players on larger contracts - Like MD.  Using assets that they did not see here long term (Watkins) to get other assets.

 

Yes the lack of talent was because of decisions by this regime, but were made to clear up previous decisions that were poorly made.

 

The rest of the post is mostly hot garbage - great have them draft Mahomes two years ago - what do you think he looks like in a Bills uniform.  He was raw and needed time to sit - do you think under TT he learns what he learned with Alex Smith having a career year.  Do you think that without all of the talent that KC was getting for years for Smith that Mahomes would be successful throwing to KB, Jones, and the injured Clay.  Also how would he have looked starting in the middle of his first season in a Dennison offense rather than getting to sit and learn under a Reid offense.

 

My feeling is we would be sitting here talking about a bust at QB and when do we move on.

 

I have the same issue with JuJu and Vander Esche.  Both of them are fits as pieces on their current team.  Is JuJu significantly better without Brown, the TEs, and experienced QB getting him the ball in Pittsburgh.  Does he have just pedestrian numbers with TT and the motley collection of QBs throwing to him and are we questioning why we did not draft Jones because he ends up on a team like LA or Pittsburgh.  Vander Esche is a typical MLB and I think would be a good fit, but I understand the Edmunds pick.  They are looking for more of a coverage deep LB and Edmunds fits that better than Vander Esche.