Again in 5 minutes of a game I see catches no Bills have made this year

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Do you really think that any of EJ's NFL games even came close to Allen's best games that we've seen?   Do you not see Allen's game improving week over week? I do, but sometimes it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back.  Personally, I wasn't big on the Allen pick at first, but I've seen flashes from this kid that I NEVER saw out of EJ Manuel, and that changed my mind, and he's making a lot of progress imho.  

 

 

Carolina - comeback win, almost 300 yards, against the Nfl’s #2 defense

 

beat the defending champs that year

 

left the field with a lead against NE

 

had 250 yards passing and 3 tds against the Jets

 

1) I think EJ was better than he was given credit for

 

2) Allen is a lot closer to EJ than some people want to admit

 

3) I ignore a lot of EJ’s red flags and made excuses for them.  I feel people are doing the same thing with Allen

 

4) and like EJ, I want Allen to be the guy.  I also am sick of all the excuses too.  

 

Winners find solutions.  Losers make excuses.

35 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Jackson looked HORRIBLE in his last bowl game against an SEC team where half his OL was hurt.  His Heisman year, they had legit talent around him. 

 

Watson had high 4 / 5* star talent all over the place at Clemson. Same with Mayfield.  

 

Mahomes played in the air raid Big XII.  I’m a Syracuse fan. We run that offense.  Eric Dungey throws for 300+ per game but he’s not an NFL QB.  

 

Regardless, those guys are all good/great NFL QBs.   Just pointing out the difference between Allen/Wyoming and those dudes situations. 

 

As for Allen, I believe he needs to get better at taking easy yards and develop more touch/accuracy in the short passing game.  That being said, I honestly struggle to see how anyone who actually watches our games, isn’t excited to see Allen with more talent around him next year.  

 

You don’t have to be sold on him being elite, but the guy has improved a lot in a year where most said he should sit and learn due to being the most raw QB in this draft and he’s flashed some serious ability while consistently having to pick up, after being let down by, his offense.  

 

My bigger point is while college success guarantees nothing, you should experience it.  IMO, top 10 picks should have dominate games.  Allen never really had that.  

 

Imo, we are hoping he will be better in the nfl than he was in college.  That seems super risky. 

[WideNine]

4 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Croom is barely any better. He has zero instincts. Yesterday’s fumble was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. 

 

Yeah, there was one poster blaming the coaching staff for that... and I could not let it slide. Sure McD and Daboll call some head-scratchers, but I can just about guarantee there was not a coach on the Bills sideline that was not yelling, "Get the "F" down!" to Croom. 

 

Absolutely no reason to not take what the defense already gave you, give the ball to your team on the 5, and allow someone else to punch it in. The hero stuff is for idiots, especially when anyone playing the game should have been aware that NE had been trying to strip/punch the ball out all game long - like they are coached to do.

 

Get your damn knee, or elbow down and take the yards.

 

Not that it would have changed the end of the game, but it would have made it more bearable to watch to see that long completion turn into something meaningful instead of Croom finding a Billsy way to sna*ch defeat from the jaws of victory on a play - all of us are sick of watching Bills teams that beat themselves.

 

(the bad word filter does not take into account legit context)

Edited December 24, 2018 by WideNine

[billsfan1959]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Carolina - comeback win, almost 300 yards, against the Nfl’s #2 defense

 

beat the defending champs that year

 

left the field with a lead against NE

 

had 250 yards passing and 3 tds against the Jets

 

1) I think EJ was better than he was given credit for

 

2) Allen is a lot closer to EJ than some people want to admit

 

3) I ignore a lot of EJ’s red flags and made excuses for them.  I feel people are doing the same thing with Allen

 

4) and like EJ, I want Allen to be the guy.  I also am sick of all the excuses too.  

 

Winners find solutions.  Losers make excuses.

My bigger point is while college success guarantees nothing, you should experience it.  IMO, top 10 picks should have dominate games.  Allen never really had that.  

 

Imo, we are hoping he will be better in the nfl than he was in college.  That seems super risky. 

EJ Manuel wasn't very good. If he was, he would still be playing in the NFL. He's not. Honest question: If you were so wrong in your assessment of EJ Manuel, what makes you believe you are so right in your assessment of Josh Allen?

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

EJ Manuel wasn't very good. If he was, he would still be playing in the NFL. He's not. Honest question: If you were so wrong in your assessment of EJ Manuel, what makes you believe you are so right in your assessment of Josh Allen?

Clearly, the fact Jeff Driskel, Tom Savage, and Nate Peterman are in the nfl clearly proves that.  

 

And even by that silly logic, shouldn’t our highest drafted qb ever not have worse passing numbers across the board than a guy out of the nfl?  

Edited December 24, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Clearly, the fact Jeff Driskel, Tom Savage, and Nate Peterman are in the nfl clearly proves that.  

I'd say that speaks volumes about EJ Manuel

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Clearly, the fact Jeff Driskel, Tom Savage, and Nate Peterman are in the nfl clearly proves that.  

 

And even by that silly logic, shouldn’t our highest drafted qb ever not have worse passing numbers across the board than a guy out of the nfl?  

You seem a bit obsessed with Josh Allen and EJ Manuel comparisons. They are completely different QBs with different skill sets, different personalities, who played on different teams, with different players around them, under different coaching staffs, and under completely different circumstances. There is no relevance between the two. How well Josh Allen does in comparison to what EJ Manuel did means nothing at all. Talk about silly logic.

[C.Biscuit97]

9 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I'd say that speaks volumes about EJ Manuel

You seem a bit obsessed with Josh Allen and EJ Manuel comparisons. They are completely different QBs with different skill sets, different personalities, who played on different teams, with different players around them, under different coaching staffs, and under completely different circumstances. There is no relevance between the two. How well Josh Allen does in comparison to what EJ Manuel did means nothing at all. Talk about silly logic.

You’re right.  It’s a bad idea to compare the most recent 1st round pick qbs who have very similar size and similar question marks.

 

and you’re right about EJ.  Clearly, Jon Griden has demonstrated what an excellent decision marker he is this year.  

[billsfan1959]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re right.  It’s a bad idea to compare the most recent 1st round pick qbs who have very similar size and similar question marks.

 

and you’re right about EJ.  Clearly, Jon Griden has demonstrated what an excellent decision marker he is this year.  

You are right, it is a bad idea

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

You are right, it is a bad idea

Because it scares you haha!

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because it scares you haha!

Not really. In the grand scheme of things, how much or how little success any given person has playing a game is far down the list of things that scare me. I have no idea how Josh Allen will turn out. He might be the franchise player this team has been searching for or he may end up out of the league in 4-5 years. Only time will tell. What I do know is that it is nonsensical to think you can derive anything meaningful about how successful Josh Allen might be from how his rookie season compares to EJ Manuel's rookie season. 

[nedboy7]

2 hours ago, Magox said:

Most rational fans and observers understand that Rome wasnt built in a day.  Beane has had one off season and draft to improve the team and he inherited one of the worst salary cap strapped organizations in the league and now we are one of the best positioned ones.

 

This is the year with 10 draft choices and what will most likely be 100 million in cap space to address the offense.  If this team doesnt look legit by the end of next year then I will agree with you until then any other opinion on the matter I consider to be tremendously uninformed 

 

The team clearly regressed this season. They had a chance to address the WR and Oline. They sort of did. It did not work and has really slowed Allen’s progress. This is not just a salary cap issue. The decision making has been sub par.  Let’s give them one more year as you say. 

[billsredneck1]

5 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Croom is barely any better. He has zero instincts. Yesterday’s fumble was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. 

that fumble was sheer stupidity. he's all wrapped up.....secure the damn ball!  he made good yardage, and an ok 2nd effort but should have called it quits right there.

squirming and twisting and trying to be a hero....welp...all for nothing.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

That’s the thing though... was Josh really “bad”

yesterday?   I think he was off, but I don’t know about bad. 

 

When you look back, you realize that if he had even average receiving talent around him, he probably has another 100-150 yards passing and 2 TD’s.   

 

Thats also while asking him to overcome average at best pass pro and zero run blocking from his OL with WR’s that were constantly owned by the Pats physical press coverage.  

 

 

 

Yes he was. And it doesn't make someone any less of a fan for admitting that. 

[Augie]

5 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Croom is barely any better. He has zero instincts. Yesterday’s fumble was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. 

 

Croom seems more athletic, but that’s not the first time he’s given up the ball trying to get an extra 6 inches. UGH! 

[Thriftygamer83]

Josh didn’t have a bad day he played very well and McDermott got outcoached by Belicheck but finally he got a touchdown is still 0-4 against him.  People say this and that about how great McDermott is and was in danger of getting axed in Carolina; Reid already realized he wasn’t going to adjust his 4-3 to anything exotic like June had done.  Which meant no mixtures of 4-4, 4-6, and or 3-6 you can complain about Frazier not adjusting but look at McDermott and honestly tell me with linemen dropping back into pass protection is he riding coat tails again?  I’m for exotic blitzes and keeping the offense honest.  

Edited December 24, 2018 by Thriftygamer83

[SCBills]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes he was. And it doesn't make someone any less of a fan for admitting that. 

 

It doesn’t make you any less of a fan, it just makes you wrong.  

 

Bad would imply he was the issue with our offense.  Far from it...

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by SCBills

[Tenhigh]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Carolina - comeback win, almost 300 yards, against the Nfl’s #2 defense

 

beat the defending champs that year

 

left the field with a lead against NE

 

had 250 yards passing and 3 tds against the Jets

 

1) I think EJ was better than he was given credit for

 

2) Allen is a lot closer to EJ than some people want to admit

 

3) I ignore a lot of EJ’s red flags and made excuses for them.  I feel people are doing the same thing with Allen

 

4) and like EJ, I want Allen to be the guy.  I also am sick of all the excuses too.  

 

Winners find solutions.  Losers make excuses.

My bigger point is while college success guarantees nothing, you should experience it.  IMO, top 10 picks should have dominate games.  Allen never really had that.  

 

Imo, we are hoping he will be better in the nfl than he was in college.  That seems super risky. 

But to actually watch those 2 side by side, to me it's not even close.  I feel like this is more about not putting your self out there for Allen like you did for EJ than it is objectively watching Allen.  But that's like, my opinion, man.

[Lurker]

Oh, sorry.  I thought this was a thread about how the Pats DBs were better at catching the ball than our WRs....

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

If Logan Thomas' fingertips extend in the opposite direction of all other human beings and end at his palms, then, yes, it was off his fingertips. If not, it was a ball he should have come down with.

 

Thank you. I tried to come up with a response to that insanity but nothing will beat this. I genuinely don't think some people watch other games. The catch that Croom made last week was one of the top 3 Bills catches this year and for most other offenses it is a standard catch made once or twice a week.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

See my qualification above. Address the other difficulty and velocity issues. Those are real things that manifested on that play. 

 

Only Bills receivers have this problem. Case in point, Mahomes throws with about as much velocity as Allen and his receivers catch the ball with no issues, including off target throws.

 

Enter former Bills receiver Kelvin Benjamin:

 

 

Yeah the ball has some velocity on it. But there is no question he should make that catch.

 

So no, Benjamin wasn't having trouble catching Josh Allen passes. He actually just sucks. If Zay Jones went to Kansas City he wouldn't suddenly learn to win contested catches. He just sucks. Much like all of our receivers and tight ends. Foster is the only one to show any semblance of consistent catch ability and he is far from being a reliable target at this point.

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Wilson completed 73% of his passes his last year in college.

 

Yeah, when he transferred to Wisconsin. His first 3 years at NC State he was 54.5%, 59.3%, and 58.4%. He didn't magically become 15% more accurate, he transferred to a better team. That actually proves the point that completion percentage does not equal accuracy. Or are you saying that if he had stayed at NC State his senior year he wouldn't have become an accurate QB?

[hemma]

3 hours ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

 I’m for exotic blitzes and keeping the offense honest; McDermott is intellectually inferior to Coaches like Lynn, Reich, Belicheck, and Reid.    

 

I’m not sure I’d include Reid in that list.

He picked through our dumpster and pulled out a Kelvin Benjamin.

I bet KC fans are pretty chesty over that move.