Again in 5 minutes of a game I see catches no Bills have made this year

[Fixxxer]

I would cut Croom and Logan Thomas and for the Phins game, I would elevate the two PS TEs, Towbridge and Carter.  See what they can do.

[Magox]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Allen is still learning and has much to improve on, and yesterday wasn't a great day for him. However,  he did make some good throws that could have made a difference in the game:

11:08 1st Qtr: 11 yard pass to Mckenzie on 3rd and 5. On target and dropped. Ended the drive.

6:41   1st Qtr: 47 yard pass to Foster. On target and room to run to the endzone. Lost in the sun (are you f'n kidding me?)

12:32 2nd Qtr: 4 yard pass to McKenzie on 3rd and 3. McKenzie couldn't even get a half a yard of separation on this route. On target, right in his hands. No catch, drive ended.

10:21 2nd Qtr: 23 yard pass to Thomas. On target. No catch at the goal line.

6:57 3rd Qtr: Flare pass to Ford at the LOS with room to run. On target. No catch

 

I chose those 5 passes because every single one of them was on target and completely catchable by even the lowest NFL satandards. Those drops were the difference between two drives ending or continuing, 1 TD in the game or 2 (maybe 3) TDS, 217 yds passing or 300 + yds passing, and a 49% completion percentage or a 61% completion percentage.

 

This is not to make excuses for Allen. Heaven knows he made some poor decisions and poor throws. However, it just feels like he gets far less help (or even luck) than he should when he does make good decisions and does make good throws.

 

Not only those passes but he had another pass on a third down to foster one on one vs Gilmore in the endzone where Foster got his fingers on.  Foster mistimed his jump on that one.  It would have been a great play by Foster but could have been made.

 

There was another play in the endzone where the ball was close to foster and McKenzie and McKenzie was in position and the defender jumped and knocked McKenzie out of position that should have been a pass interference.

 

Then there was another 3rd down play that was perfectly thrown by Allen that the defender made a good play on.  No separation from Mckenzie.

 

Then the fumble by Croom.  Allen made nice passes to get them to the 5.

 

Misplay after misplay after misplay.

 

 

[Thriftygamer83]

32 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Star is overpaid but decent.  

 

Murphy is wildly meh.  I think I read somewhere that we have an easy out on his contract without much dead cap?...  not sure if anyone can verify but I really hope that’s the case. 

Four million and eight million which isn’t to bad but it’s the little things which add up.  

[Livinginthepast]

The receiving corps has baffled me this year. You had KB and Clay who were supposedly A1 talent continually show us a lack of skill, effort and commitment. Zay has been better than expected but seeing that his expectations after last year were so poor that isn't something to celebrate. Foster has been a pleasant surprise but he isn't not an elite level receiver. None of the group has made any amazing grabs, contested catches or most importantly clutch receptions when it was most necessary. The pass that was lost in the sun in the first Q yesterday says it all.  In short we have no money players anything like what the OP mentioned.  

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Not only those passes but he had another pass on a third down to foster one on one vs Gilmore in the endzone where Foster got his fingers on.  Foster mistimed his jump on that one.  It would have been a great play by Foster but could have been made.

 

There was another play in the endzone where the ball was close to foster and McKenzie and McKenzie was in position and the defender jumped and knocked McKenzie out of position that should have been a pass interference.

 

Then there was another 3rd down play that was perfectly thrown by Allen that the defender made a good play on.  No separation from Mckenzie.

 

Then the fumble by Croom.  Allen made nice passes to get them to the 5.

 

Misplay after misplay after misplay.

 

 

Agreed. I cannot wait for (hopefully) a drastic upgrade of talent this off season...

[Kirby Jackson]

30 minutes ago, Gray Beard said:

I see a lot of speed and big play guys, but I also see a lot of check downs to tight ends and running backs. The Patriots routinely destroy opponents with short passes.  The Bills don’t seem to have check down options that are reliable. It may also be caused by Josh Allen throwing check down passes too hard to be caught. Is that a Josh Allen problem, or a receiver problem?

Kenny Golladay won a ton of 50/50 balls when Detroit played the Bills. It’s that kind of big receiver that the Bills need.  Benjamin was supposed to be that guy, but it didn’t work out. 

Part of the reason that it didn’t work with Benjamin (and Funchess has the same problem) is that teams have gone to bigger corners to counteract the big receivers. That “he’s open when he’s not” doesn’t really exist anymore. The big guys that succeed all have speed (sub 4.5). The ones that don’t can’t separate. The other receivers that succeed have elite speed. You need to make chunk plays. It’s too hard to consistently win needing 12 play drives IMO. The most explosive offenses are the best teams (and that list no longer includes the Pats). 

31 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Hopkins is more of a possession guy actually.  He wins with technique, route running, and the strongest hands maybe ever.

Fair

[Thriftygamer83]

2 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

The receiving corps has baffled me this year. You had KB and Clay who were supposedly A1 talent continually show us a lack of skill, effort and commitment. Zay has been better than expected but seeing that his expectations after last year were so poor that isn't something to celebrate. Foster has been a pleasant surprise but he isn't not an elite level receiver. None of the group has made any amazing grabs, contested catches or most importantly clutch receptions when it was most necessary. The pass that was lost in the sun in the first Q yesterday says it all.  In short we have no money players anything like what the OP mentioned.  

Foster and Zay play like small receivers with no aggression at all.  Clutch catches pass right through their fingers.  Where only they can get it can remover the Jets game and commentators were basically saying that’s his level of clutch that he will never be capable of living up too and then replayed his drop against the Panthers last year.  Jones doesn’t live up to expectations because he’s never really been anything to expect.  As for Foster it’s more of the same and it shows.  Allen is surrounded by talentless hacks and Daboll with Castillo have been neglected.  So, Daboll calls great plays and find clutch targets and the clutch guys like Zay who have never lived up to draft status (5th or 6th rounder IMHO) have been lazy in improving their game personally.  

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Not only those passes but he had another pass on a third down to foster one on one vs Gilmore in the endzone where Foster got his fingers on.  Foster mistimed his jump on that one.  It would have been a great play by Foster but could have been made.

 

There was another play in the endzone where the ball was close to foster and McKenzie and McKenzie was in position and the defender jumped and knocked McKenzie out of position that should have been a pass interference.

 

Then there was another 3rd down play that was perfectly thrown by Allen that the defender made a good play on.  No separation from Mckenzie.

 

Then the fumble by Croom.  Allen made nice passes to get them to the 5.

 

Misplay after misplay after misplay.

 

 

And lets not forget that drop by Thomas of a perfectly thrown ball at the goal line.  Taken together this is way to many drops and missed opportunities by our receivers.

 

As an aside if forced to grade Allen I would say he was between a C+ & B- yesterday.  Those 2 INT's were bad and he needs to get that out of his system.  So like a lot of us who support Allen on 2BD we are fully aware that he has a lot of work to do.  But put just average NFL skill players around Allen and IMO he would have more TD's then INT's this season and he would already have a 300 yard game and the Bills would have 2 - 3 more wins. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Josh played badly yesterday. Other QBs play badly sometimes too. Josh played really well last week. It is possible to think all of the below:

- the offensive talent on this team is sub NFL standard;

- Josh was bad yesterday;

- Josh can be a good Quarterback. 

 

People act as though these are somehow three distinct mutually exclusive positions. 

Preach

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. He is only in the team for his skills in the bedroom. 

 

Harsh.  I thought he showed flashes.  But yesterday was a debacle for sure.  Again, I feel it shows our guys are poorly coached.

[CommonCents]

15 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Everyone at our party was screaming hold on to the ball as soon as he caught it.  Everyone knew he was gonna fumble

Same. I don’t understand how you can make it to the NFL level and have no idea what’s happening around you. Did the guy think he was tanking defenders for a ride into the end zone? Did he forget how to fall down? Wrap up the ball and go down.

 

This needs to be coached into these guys? At this level? Wow. I hope they cut him today. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

Great so Zay and Foster play fast, don’t have hands, and don’t use their body frames to get better separation.  Which means that unlike Kelvin Benjamin they won’t eat themselves out of the league they will just be cap eaters and non-factors.  Thinking we need an offensive quality assessment Coach to find better ROI for receivers and tight ends.  

 

Doesnt Beane have a team of scouts whose job that’s supposed to be?

[clearwater cadet]

Thomas makes that catch Allen looks like a franchise Guy, he miss it and Allen a bust?  Many times the Wr's make the Qb. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

Just now, CommonCents said:

Same. I don’t understand how you can make it to the NFL level and have no idea what’s happening around you. Did the guy think he was tanking defenders for a ride into the end zone? Did he forget how to fall down? Wrap up the ball and go down.

 

This needs to be coached into these guys? At this level? Wow. I hope they cut him today. 

Lol I don't think that would go over very well at Christmas dinner at the pegula house.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Well, you said they’re small...I’m just saying they’re not.  

 

Also, feel free to criticize next year if we have the same issues.   As of now, they’ve willingly neglected offense to gear up for this offseason to build around Allen.  

 

The 2019 offseason is massive for this organization.  

 

‘Why are people so accepting of this narrative?  We’ve spent money on offense.  We’ve brought in players.  Our choices have been bad.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Don't even think that is a tough catch. That was a perfectly thrown ball. He didn't even get his hands on it it went straight through them. 

 

How Logan Thomas has spent three years on an NFL roster as a Tight End is a genuine mystery to me. He is absolutely and totally useless. He isn't even Arena League standard, NFL Europe standard..... XFL standard.... he is rubbish. Pure trash. 

That is an extremely tough catch. Come on! It wasn't a bad throw because Thomas was blanketed,  and that's the only place you can put it (alert: I am not blaming Allen). But that's a pass that's usually not caught. Coverage is huge too in that sort of situation. Give some credit to the defender, who was in position to swat at it in the unlikely the event he made that very difficult catch. 

[Thriftygamer83]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Doesnt Beane have a team of scouts whose job that’s supposed to be?

Zay is a Whaley hold over from his last draft class.  After year two it’s time to move on from Zay as for Foster give him another year for year two.  

[Magox]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

‘Why are people so accepting of this narrative?  We’ve spent money on offense.  We’ve brought in players.  Our choices have been bad.

Because that has largely been the case.  Aside from Benjamin who we all thought was a good trade who else did Beane put serious draft capital towards?  The only person I can think of is Allen and from my perspective that's going to be a homerun.

 

Who else?  Ivory? Deon Thompson?  5th rounder Teller? Bodine? Newhouse?  These are all stop gap players with the possible exception of Teller.

 

The meaningful FA acquisitions last year were both on the defensive side.  Their draft picks were mainly defensive.

 

That narrative is more than just a narrative, it is backed up by their actions.  

Edited December 24, 2018 by Magox

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Thriftygamer83 said:

Zay is a Whaley hold over from his last draft class.  After year two it’s time to move on from Zay as for Foster give him another year for year two.  

 

Mcdermott was making the picks.  Zay was the guy his WR coach wanted. 

 

Beane brought in Boldin, Benjamin, and Corey Coleman.  Drafted rRayRay over Equanimious St Brown.  Their player e v a l. on O is suspect.

[SCBills]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

‘Why are people so accepting of this narrative?  We’ve spent money on offense.  We’ve brought in players.  Our choices have been bad.

 

Who?..  midseason acquisition of KB when we were surprisingly in playoff contention last year?  

 

Chris Ivory?  Russell Bodine? 

 

QB’s - They took a while but found a solid backup and locked him down.  

 

WR’s - We’ve invested exactly one 2nd Round Pick as any legitimate capital to this position so far.  Through a revolving door of Corey Coleman, Terrelle Pryor, Isaiah McKenzie, Robert Foster etc, they’ve managed to find a useful 4/5 gadget player and a 2/3 WR. 

 

OL - We have one 2nd Round Pick and a 5th Round Pick as any draft capital.  The rest are just guys here to get us through this season. 

 

Theyve brought in bodies, obviously.   They haven’t exactly invested much....yet. 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by SCBills

[simpleman]

It is so endemic to the Bills in particular that I find it hard to understand how the blame does not fall on the arsonists that are responsible for this dumpster fire, McBeane and the coaching staff.

 

They are the ones that assembled this team, and they coached this team. The lack of effort, the lack of concentration, the lack of discipline, and the ridiculous abundance of non contact penalties. The lack of basic football skills and essentials on not just offense side, but also the bad tackling skills, bad technique and mechanics on the defensive side.

 

They are the ones that created the cap hell we are in this year, and everyone will praise them next year when it is relieved. Meanwhile we are paying huge cap sums for a large number of decent players who are now playing on other teams. We still have a special teams coach that should have been fired way back in the Marrone era.

 

Sadly we are not even getting what little we are paying for in talent due to poor selection, poor preparation and poor coaching. There is an alarming lack of discipline and that extra effort that makes the difference between being over- achievers and just getting by. This team may be built to be choir boys off the field , but on the field they are more like the 3 Stooges.

 

McBeane , the front office and the coaching staff are ultimately responsible. Not just the players.

 

Okay let the excuses, the sugar coating,  and the spin begin!

Edited December 24, 2018 by simpleman