Shaw66 Posted December 23, 2018 Posted December 23, 2018 Until the Bills can beat the Patriots, they aren’t going to win the AFC East. It’s been the reality for years, and nothing’s changed after the Pats’ 24-12 over the Bills on Sunday. Not that the Bills were going to win anything this season. It was a game we’ve all seen before. Pats coming at the Bills with a different look, and another different look, and another. It’s the Belichick way. It leads to confusion, which caused a timeout by Allen early in the first half. It leads to big plays against the Bills, like the jet-sweep runs. It leads to three and outs. This game looked like a lot of Bills-Pats games lately. The Pats always seem to be in control, but they don’t pull away. The game stays close, and in the third quarter it often looks like somehow the Bills could win. But the Pats ARE in control, and the Bills DON’T win. Characteristic of many Bills losses to New England is the turnover at an important part of the game. Who wasn’t screaming at Croom to go down and to hold on to the ball after his 24-yard reception took the ball down to the Patriots’ six-yard line? It was SO obvious. Take the gain, go down and avoid the gang tackle. A touchdown makes it a one-score game, and notwithstanding the Patriots impressive running game, the Bills would have been in a football game. Instead, the Pats put together a long drive, flip field position, get a three and out and get a field goal to put the Bills into a hole they couldn’t dig out of. It’s not just the Patriots that bring out Bills’ mistakes. It’s been happening all season. Penalties particularly. Part of Sean McDermott’s process has to be to develop a team that plays mistake-free football, to the greatest extent possible. Two years into the process, mistake-free isn’t how anyone would describe the Bills. It’s not a question of talent – it’s training, practice. ANY tight end in the league is trained to hold onto the ball; it isn’t about talent. Whatever McDermott is doing to teach that lesson isn’t working. He needs to work on his process. The game was pretty much over after the fumble. I had several reactions to the game: It was interesting to listen to Trent Green and Bruce Ariens critique Josh Allen. It was like two pros sitting in the family room, making observations to one another that most of us don’t see. Floating the ball on his first interception, and then again on the second interception to the other side. Not taking the easy checkdown to McCoy. Throwing to Foster in tight coverage by McCourty. Actually, I think they were wrong about that. They said it was a bad matchup. Well, you’ve got Gilmore on the other side, and that’s by definition a bad matchup. So you’re down to your third best receiver, and on the Bills, the third best receiver is also by definition a bad matchup. Allen made an excellent throw, and it’s one of those throws where you ask your receiver to make a play. Foster just didn’t make it. On the other hand, the announcers didn’t know anything about the Bills, or they didn’t bother to say anything about them. Nothing about Edmunds, a couple sentences about Lorenzo, nothing about the offensive line, nothing about the Bills’ safeties. There’s a lot to say about this team, and they didn’t bother to say it. What didn’t they say? Well, they actually said very little about Josh Allen. This season has been all about the Bills quarterback, and even with the problems Allen had against the Patriots, he looked like a star in the making. His arm is amazing. His pocket presence is great; he made a mistake, was nearly sacked in the end zone, and then made a miraculous play to avoid the safety. Very few QBs escape to make that play. Everything that I see from Allen that is good is very good. He’s calm, he understands a lot of what’s going on out there, he throws the ball beautifully. The things that I see that aren’t so good are the things that he should learn with experience: his desire to go downfield on every play, his failure to put air under some balls and to put too much under others. He’s seeing and learning every week. Now he’s seen Belichick and that defense. Some of what Allen needs is time throwing to his receivers. Too many plays where either Allen or the receiver misreads the defense. Of course, he also could use a better receiver or two. What’s up with McKenzie? Carted off the field for the second week in a row, and for the second week in a row he returned to play some more. Gotta give Belichick credit for figuring out how to run on the Bills. The Bills have to have better answers. The Pats don’t have a dominant offensive line, and the Bills’ defensive line, although not what you’d call stout, hasn’t given up yardage like that all season. Something needs to be fixed, and the something probably is some of the players on the front seven. Losing Milano certainly is part of the problem – he made a difference on the field every week until his injury. It was a pleasure to watch a game without a lot of penalty calls. Of course, pass interference in the end zone might have made the game different. Foster or McKenzie (who was it?) clearly was making a play on the ball and got pushed away. Two rules I’d like to see changed that won’t be: One is that a fumble into the end zone and then out of bounds is a turnover. That’s just wrong. If I fumble out of bounds at the one, I keep the ball. If I fumble it one yard deep into the end zone and then out of bounds, I lose the ball? Why? The other is the rule that the ball carrier has to touch the ground to be down. Edelman was tackled, clearly tackled. He was off his feet and on top of two defenders who were off their feet and on the ground. Gravity had done it’s job, and he was as down as he could be. If the ball carrier is off his feet by contact and is lying on players who also are off their feet and on the ground, the ball carrier should be ruled down. The Bills certainly are looking toward 2019. Charles Clay was inactive for the Pats game. He may be less mobile than Croom, but he’s certainly a better player than Logan Thomas. Just maybe not better for this coach and this team. It’s a good bet that Clay won’t be in Buffalo next season. Not that I’m in favor of tanking at all, but one more loss could give the Bills a spot near the top of the 2019 draft. The Bills will be a lot better in 2019 than 2018, because they are going to load up on talent. Every little bit helps, and drafting fifth in the first three rounds would be better than tenth. Still, there’s nothing better than a Bills win, and we owe the Dolphins a loss. GO BILLS!!! The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team. 5 4
Beast Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) If you fumble at the 1 and it does out of bounds a yard deep into the endzone, touchback. That is the way it should be just the same as if the ball carrier fumbles at his own 1 and the ball goes backwards and out of the endzone it is a safety. Or the center snaps it over the punters head and out of the endzone or a blocked punt out of the endzone. Either way, change of possession and the ball goes to the 20 yard line. The rule is fine. The other rule is also fine because he wasn’t touching the ground. In essence, he broke the tackle. If the Bills player had him secured he wouldn’t have scored. Edited December 24, 2018 by Binghamton Beast
Shaw66 Posted December 24, 2018 Author Posted December 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: If you fumble at the 1 and it does out of bounds a yard deep into the endzone, touchback. That is the way it should be just the same as if the ball carrier fumbles at his own 1 and the ball goes backwards and out of the endzone it is a safety. Or the center snaps it over the punters head and out of the endzone or a blocked punt out of the endzone. Either way, change of possession and the ball goes to the 20 yard line. The rule is fine. The other rule is also fine because he wasn’t touching the ground. In essence, he broke the tackle. If the Bills player had him secured he wouldn’t have scored. Fumbling it out of your own end zone is like running it out of your end zone. It's like getting tackled. Fumbling into the other end zone is different. As for the other rule, you just stated the rule. I know the rule. I think the rule should be different. The guy was tackled, his progress was stopped, he was lying on guys who were lying on the ground. He should be down.
ILBillsfan Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 It was Gilmore in coverage on those passes they where saying bad choices. Mentioned that pats in single coverage and rookie WR vs Gilmore is a bad choice to go after when there was other options to go to. Did not hear them say vs Mcourty The most annoying thing was the pats putting everyone w 7 yrds of the LOS and not one audible or game adjustment to attack the middle of the field. The one that stood out was when he tried to hit McKEnzie on a 3rd and two and it was incomplete very tight coverage and on the other side of the field it appeared to be the WR's doing a rub in/out move on the corner and the WR came open. im not sure who the WR was and its more than likely a trust issue with WR's right now with Josh or what works better in practice and getting him to read where the open spot in the defense better. Have to remind myself he is a very raw QB
Foxx Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Until the Bills can... ...GO BILLS!!! ... yeah, no. the end lines have always been different than the sidelines when it comes to fumbles. the same is true for tackles, unless you actually touch the ground, you are not down and have never been. can we stop trying the revisionist history thing now? Edited December 24, 2018 by Foxx
LABILLBACKER Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 All I know from watching the Bills this season is Josh Allen will be very good once they replace some of these scrubs around him. Shady & Clay are gone, cap or no cap. A complete OL overhaul will be required. Most of the wrs/te's will be replaced. Edmunds will be moved to the outside. And if Crossman and Castillo aren't upgraded that McB are fools. 3
Bring it Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 Gilmore vs a rookie is probably not the best matchup, but he has always struggled against small, quick fast receivers. I would take that shot next year for sure. Once Allen builds more chemistry with his guys! It’s all about next year and beyond!
row_33 Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 Football loves that player not being down, a college playoff final was decided on it a few years ago, it was the only big play of the game
billspro Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said: It was Gilmore in coverage on those passes they where saying bad choices. Mentioned that pats in single coverage and rookie WR vs Gilmore is a bad choice to go after when there was other options to go to. Did not hear them say vs Mcourty The most annoying thing was the pats putting everyone w 7 yrds of the LOS and not one audible or game adjustment to attack the middle of the field. The one that stood out was when he tried to hit McKEnzie on a 3rd and two and it was incomplete very tight coverage and on the other side of the field it appeared to be the WR's doing a rub in/out move on the corner and the WR came open. im not sure who the WR was and its more than likely a trust issue with WR's right now with Josh or what works better in practice and getting him to read where the open spot in the defense better. Have to remind myself he is a very raw QB I liked the Gilmore Foster matchup, I thought that was a good choice. Foster probably should have adjusted and scored there. 9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: All I know from watching the Bills this season is Josh Allen will be very good once they replace some of these scrubs around him. Shady & Clay are gone, cap or no cap. A complete OL overhaul will be required. Most of the wrs/te's will be replaced. Edmunds will be moved to the outside. And if Crossman and Castillo aren't upgraded that McB are fools. Thats pretty much what I take away from the game. It would also be nice to give Allen more than 3ypc from a RB at some point. Our running game is horrible without Allen running.
Foxx Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) Smith-Schuster wasn't down either just now. Edited December 24, 2018 by Foxx 1
Beast Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 Just now, Foxx said: Smith-Schuster wasn't down either just now. Yep. He hangs onto that ball and continues running...... The rule makes sense. 1
Foxx Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Yep. He hangs onto that ball and continues running...... The rule makes sense. we certainly do not need any more rules that require a judgement call. there are enough of those that can already change a game based upon nothing more than perception as opposed to a hard fact. Edited December 24, 2018 by Foxx 1
row_33 Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Foxx said: we certainly do not need any more rules that require a judgement call. there are enough of those that can already change a game based upon nothing more than perception instead of a hard fact. How about building a real team and stop crying about the refs 1 1
Shaw66 Posted December 24, 2018 Author Posted December 24, 2018 31 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Yep. He hangs onto that ball and continues running...... The rule makes sense. Yeah, I'd change the rule so smith schauster was down. Both calls were right - I just don't like the rule, in part because the tackler, like the Bills today, don't have any way to know if the ball carrier is down and if they can continue the play they run the risk, in today's game, of getting called for unnecessary roughness if he IS down. Whatever.
row_33 Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 Just now, Shaw66 said: Yeah, I'd change the rule so smith schauster was down. Both calls were right - I just don't like the rule, in part because the tackler, like the Bills today, don't have any way to know if the ball carrier is down and if they can continue the play they run the risk, in today's game, of getting called for unnecessary roughness if he IS down. Whatever. It only matters once a year
bigK14094 Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 How about throwing Foster the ball out of the sun....bad on Allen and Daboll. And, although the announcers did not call it, just stated their amazement, Edelman let a punt hit the ground after the fair catch signal....same p;roblem....ball coming out of the sun. Edelman was smart enough not to try to catch it.
Marv's Neighbor Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 We won't beat anybody without some tackling. Matt Milano was sorely missed today! 1
Comebackkid Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 i dont get why they dont call more come back routes. Gilmore was burned on the one and only one i seen all day. it buys the receiver some space and it puts the receiver in front of the cb rather than behind him. it was a frustrating game because regardless of how good the Bills play it seems like they go out of their way to make things harder than it should be. they dont play efficient football. 1
PUNT750 Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Until the Bills can beat the Patriots, they aren’t going to win the AFC East. It’s been the reality for years, and nothing’s changed after the Pats’ 24-12 over the Bills on Sunday. Not that the Bills were going to win anything this season. It was a game we’ve all seen before. Pats coming at the Bills with a different look, and another different look, and another. It’s the Belichick way. It leads to confusion, which caused a timeout by Allen early in the first half. It leads to big plays against the Bills, like the jet-sweep runs. It leads to three and outs. This game looked like a lot of Bills-Pats games lately. The Pats always seem to be in control, but they don’t pull away. The game stays close, and in the third quarter it often looks like somehow the Bills could win. But the Pats ARE in control, and the Bills DON’T win. Characteristic of many Bills losses to New England is the turnover at an important part of the game. Who wasn’t screaming at Croom to go down and to hold on to the ball after his 24-yard reception took the ball down to the Patriots’ six-yard line? It was SO obvious. Take the gain, go down and avoid the gang tackle. A touchdown makes it a one-score game, and notwithstanding the Patriots impressive running game, the Bills would have been in a football game. Instead, the Pats put together a long drive, flip field position, get a three and out and get a field goal to put the Bills into a hole they couldn’t dig out of. It’s not just the Patriots that bring out Bills’ mistakes. It’s been happening all season. Penalties particularly. Part of Sean McDermott’s process has to be to develop a team that plays mistake-free football, to the greatest extent possible. Two years into the process, mistake-free isn’t how anyone would describe the Bills. It’s not a question of talent – it’s training, practice. ANY tight end in the league is trained to hold onto the ball; it isn’t about talent. Whatever McDermott is doing to teach that lesson isn’t working. He needs to work on his process. The game was pretty much over after the fumble. I had several reactions to the game: It was interesting to listen to Trent Green and Bruce Ariens critique Josh Allen. It was like two pros sitting in the family room, making observations to one another that most of us don’t see. Floating the ball on his first interception, and then again on the second interception to the other side. Not taking the easy checkdown to McCoy. Throwing to Foster in tight coverage by McCourty. Actually, I think they were wrong about that. They said it was a bad matchup. Well, you’ve got Gilmore on the other side, and that’s by definition a bad matchup. So you’re down to your third best receiver, and on the Bills, the third best receiver is also by definition a bad matchup. Allen made an excellent throw, and it’s one of those throws where you ask your receiver to make a play. Foster just didn’t make it. On the other hand, the announcers didn’t know anything about the Bills, or they didn’t bother to say anything about them. Nothing about Edmunds, a couple sentences about Lorenzo, nothing about the offensive line, nothing about the Bills’ safeties. There’s a lot to say about this team, and they didn’t bother to say it. What didn’t they say? Well, they actually said very little about Josh Allen. This season has been all about the Bills quarterback, and even with the problems Allen had against the Patriots, he looked like a star in the making. His arm is amazing. His pocket presence is great; he made a mistake, was nearly sacked in the end zone, and then made a miraculous play to avoid the safety. Very few QBs escape to make that play. Everything that I see from Allen that is good is very good. He’s calm, he understands a lot of what’s going on out there, he throws the ball beautifully. The things that I see that aren’t so good are the things that he should learn with experience: his desire to go downfield on every play, his failure to put air under some balls and to put too much under others. He’s seeing and learning every week. Now he’s seen Belichick and that defense. Some of what Allen needs is time throwing to his receivers. Too many plays where either Allen or the receiver misreads the defense. Of course, he also could use a better receiver or two. What’s up with McKenzie? Carted off the field for the second week in a row, and for the second week in a row he returned to play some more. Gotta give Belichick credit for figuring out how to run on the Bills. The Bills have to have better answers. The Pats don’t have a dominant offensive line, and the Bills’ defensive line, although not what you’d call stout, hasn’t given up yardage like that all season. Something needs to be fixed, and the something probably is some of the players on the front seven. Losing Milano certainly is part of the problem – he made a difference on the field every week until his injury. It was a pleasure to watch a game without a lot of penalty calls. Of course, pass interference in the end zone might have made the game different. Foster or McKenzie (who was it?) clearly was making a play on the ball and got pushed away. Two rules I’d like to see changed that won’t be: One is that a fumble into the end zone and then out of bounds is a turnover. That’s just wrong. If I fumble out of bounds at the one, I keep the ball. If I fumble it one yard deep into the end zone and then out of bounds, I lose the ball? Why? The other is the rule that the ball carrier has to touch the ground to be down. Edelman was tackled, clearly tackled. He was off his feet and on top of two defenders who were off their feet and on the ground. Gravity had done it’s job, and he was as down as he could be. If the ball carrier is off his feet by contact and is lying on players who also are off their feet and on the ground, the ball carrier should be ruled down. The Bills certainly are looking toward 2019. Charles Clay was inactive for the Pats game. He may be less mobile than Croom, but he’s certainly a better player than Logan Thomas. Just maybe not better for this coach and this team. It’s a good bet that Clay won’t be in Buffalo next season. Not that I’m in favor of tanking at all, but one more loss could give the Bills a spot near the top of the 2019 draft. The Bills will be a lot better in 2019 than 2018, because they are going to load up on talent. Every little bit helps, and drafting fifth in the first three rounds would be better than tenth. Still, there’s nothing better than a Bills win, and we owe the Dolphins a loss. GO BILLS!!! The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team. Good review of the game. Why, oh Why after training camp, pre-season and now 15 games into the season doesn't the OL improve even a little bit? Why the same penalties over and over?
iinii Posted December 24, 2018 Posted December 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: Until the Bills can beat the Patriots, they aren’t going to win the AFC East. It’s been the reality for years, and nothing’s changed after the Pats’ 24-12 over the Bills on Sunday. Not that the Bills were going to win anything this season. It was a game we’ve all seen before. Pats coming at the Bills with a different look, and another different look, and another. It’s the Belichick way. It leads to confusion, which caused a timeout by Allen early in the first half. It leads to big plays against the Bills, like the jet-sweep runs. It leads to three and outs. This game looked like a lot of Bills-Pats games lately. The Pats always seem to be in control, but they don’t pull away. The game stays close, and in the third quarter it often looks like somehow the Bills could win. But the Pats ARE in control, and the Bills DON’T win. Characteristic of many Bills losses to New England is the turnover at an important part of the game. Who wasn’t screaming at Croom to go down and to hold on to the ball after his 24-yard reception took the ball down to the Patriots’ six-yard line? It was SO obvious. Take the gain, go down and avoid the gang tackle. A touchdown makes it a one-score game, and notwithstanding the Patriots impressive running game, the Bills would have been in a football game. Instead, the Pats put together a long drive, flip field position, get a three and out and get a field goal to put the Bills into a hole they couldn’t dig out of. It’s not just the Patriots that bring out Bills’ mistakes. It’s been happening all season. Penalties particularly. Part of Sean McDermott’s process has to be to develop a team that plays mistake-free football, to the greatest extent possible. Two years into the process, mistake-free isn’t how anyone would describe the Bills. It’s not a question of talent – it’s training, practice. ANY tight end in the league is trained to hold onto the ball; it isn’t about talent. Whatever McDermott is doing to teach that lesson isn’t working. He needs to work on his process. The game was pretty much over after the fumble. I had several reactions to the game: It was interesting to listen to Trent Green and Bruce Ariens critique Josh Allen. It was like two pros sitting in the family room, making observations to one another that most of us don’t see. Floating the ball on his first interception, and then again on the second interception to the other side. Not taking the easy checkdown to McCoy. Throwing to Foster in tight coverage by McCourty. Actually, I think they were wrong about that. They said it was a bad matchup. Well, you’ve got Gilmore on the other side, and that’s by definition a bad matchup. So you’re down to your third best receiver, and on the Bills, the third best receiver is also by definition a bad matchup. Allen made an excellent throw, and it’s one of those throws where you ask your receiver to make a play. Foster just didn’t make it. On the other hand, the announcers didn’t know anything about the Bills, or they didn’t bother to say anything about them. Nothing about Edmunds, a couple sentences about Lorenzo, nothing about the offensive line, nothing about the Bills’ safeties. There’s a lot to say about this team, and they didn’t bother to say it. What didn’t they say? Well, they actually said very little about Josh Allen. This season has been all about the Bills quarterback, and even with the problems Allen had against the Patriots, he looked like a star in the making. His arm is amazing. His pocket presence is great; he made a mistake, was nearly sacked in the end zone, and then made a miraculous play to avoid the safety. Very few QBs escape to make that play. Everything that I see from Allen that is good is very good. He’s calm, he understands a lot of what’s going on out there, he throws the ball beautifully. The things that I see that aren’t so good are the things that he should learn with experience: his desire to go downfield on every play, his failure to put air under some balls and to put too much under others. He’s seeing and learning every week. Now he’s seen Belichick and that defense. Some of what Allen needs is time throwing to his receivers. Too many plays where either Allen or the receiver misreads the defense. Of course, he also could use a better receiver or two. What’s up with McKenzie? Carted off the field for the second week in a row, and for the second week in a row he returned to play some more. Gotta give Belichick credit for figuring out how to run on the Bills. The Bills have to have better answers. The Pats don’t have a dominant offensive line, and the Bills’ defensive line, although not what you’d call stout, hasn’t given up yardage like that all season. Something needs to be fixed, and the something probably is some of the players on the front seven. Losing Milano certainly is part of the problem – he made a difference on the field every week until his injury. It was a pleasure to watch a game without a lot of penalty calls. Of course, pass interference in the end zone might have made the game different. Foster or McKenzie (who was it?) clearly was making a play on the ball and got pushed away. Two rules I’d like to see changed that won’t be: One is that a fumble into the end zone and then out of bounds is a turnover. That’s just wrong. If I fumble out of bounds at the one, I keep the ball. If I fumble it one yard deep into the end zone and then out of bounds, I lose the ball? Why? The other is the rule that the ball carrier has to touch the ground to be down. Edelman was tackled, clearly tackled. He was off his feet and on top of two defenders who were off their feet and on the ground. Gravity had done it’s job, and he was as down as he could be. If the ball carrier is off his feet by contact and is lying on players who also are off their feet and on the ground, the ball carrier should be ruled down. The Bills certainly are looking toward 2019. Charles Clay was inactive for the Pats game. He may be less mobile than Croom, but he’s certainly a better player than Logan Thomas. Just maybe not better for this coach and this team. It’s a good bet that Clay won’t be in Buffalo next season. Not that I’m in favor of tanking at all, but one more loss could give the Bills a spot near the top of the 2019 draft. The Bills will be a lot better in 2019 than 2018, because they are going to load up on talent. Every little bit helps, and drafting fifth in the first three rounds would be better than tenth. Still, there’s nothing better than a Bills win, and we owe the Dolphins a loss. GO BILLS!!! The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team. Well done!
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