Josh Gordon Stepping Away from Football in Advance of this Sunday's Game; Returned to the Reserve/Commissioner Suspended List Indefinitely

[freddyjj]

7 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Addiction is a medical condition caused by at least one choice. 

In this case, it seems to be many many poor choices on his part.

 

also, you don’t know he’s not a doctor... 

here is AMA and Center for Addiction stance

https://www.centeronaddiction.org/what-addiction/addiction-disease

 

Yes Victoria there is a Santa Claus

And addiction in all forms is a disease per the AMA

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by freddyjj
wrong link initially

[I'm Spartacus]

"so this guy is a total loser?",  "well, let me tell you the story of another loser".....

[Alphadawg7]

36 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Way to cherry pick to frame your "argument". I have like 8 other posts here that made my point entirely clear.

 

Point blank - I simply don't believe that his issue is as serious as some are making it, considering his history. You can choose to disagree and act like the subject matter expert as I'm sure you have multiple tabs open on the topic and are now an addiction expert. I personally believe that this guy just likes to smoke weed, got caught AGAIN, and is playing damage control.

 

I guess we'll see who's right soon enough. If TMZ snaps a pic of him clubbing or he joins a reality TV series within the year, I'm not going to shed a tear for him.

 

You know he battles alcoholism too right?  Some of these posts are dark (not singling you out, most my post is about the whole thread). Football is just a game, sometimes fans have trouble separating players from real life.  No one even bats an eye anymore when they take their own lives as a result of the beating they took to entertain people.

 

What is with our societies obsession with devaluing a person based on wealth or success?  People act like because they worked their tail off to get someplace people just dream of that they are no longer worthy of sympathy, compassion, or humanity.  They are the same people everyone else is, success doesn’t strip them to their right to be human and have problems too.  Money doesn’t change any of that yet so many people have this belief that life is so easy if you reach your goals and have money.  

 

Then again, no surprise really, this is the same country and league that turned a peaceful protest against civil right violations into something it’s not and made the protestor a villain and a monster (despite being a pillar of the community and giving millions to kids and charity before the protest) while looking the other way on animal murderers, child abusers, domestic violence, insider trading, being involved in a fatality, etc.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Bing Bong]

Sad. He's Cris Carter when drug rules are more strict, players are more scrutinized and never straightened up. He could be suspended (if not completely out) for a long time right?

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

here is AMA stance

https://nacchocommunique.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/harmful-substance-use-dependence-and-behavioural-addiction-addiction-2017-ama-position-statement.pdf

Yes Victoria there is a Santa Claus

And addiction in all forms is a disease per the AMA

 

 

 

Why is everyone so bad at reading around here? Look at what I said- I admitted it was a medical condition. 

 

From your link:

 

Quote

The AMA: Believes that substance dependence and behavioural addictions (SDBA) are serious health conditions, with high mortality and disability

 

Now look what I said: 

 

6 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Addiction is a medical condition caused by at least one choice. 

In this case, it seems to be many many poor choices on his part.

 

 

My meaning, which seemed clear to me, but I will clarify- is that in order for addiction to take place, there MUST be an initial choice to partake in the substance that causes addiction. (Unless force is involved, which seems like it would be a small number of actual addictions, but I do not know the statistics so I am welcome to being proven wrong.) 

 

I believe that there is a predisposition towards certain drugs or other addiction causing issues in many people- but in order for them to become addicted, they must chose to do that drug/substance in the first place. I have a friend who doesn't drink at all because he knows that there's a thick history in his family of addiction to alcohol and he doesn't want to take that chance. 

 

It is a choice in that regard, and the idea that there isn't a choice involved for a man who has all of the necessary rehabilitation devices available to him seems disingenuous to me. I understand that there is treatment and all forms of detailed rehab, but there really does come a point where someone just needs to want to get better. I don't know Josh Gordon, so I won't comment on that side of this or on his desire to get well, but I think it can be a crutch when we call it a disease and remove all personal responsibility.   

[BillsMafia13]

1 hour ago, Nelius said:

 

I've been stopping/starting when I need to for decades. Now that I have degrees and a career, I'm all about daily rides on the MJ train. I've also earned it. If I needed to stop tomorrow, I would, and could. The worst thing that happens after you stop is that your dreams become so vivid for a few weeks that you may roll out of bed. The horror!

 

 

Dude that happened to me too!  I had no idea that was going to happen and I legit thought I was losing my mind haha.  So glad im not the only one

[par73]

This has been going on since he entered the league. A lesser player would have been long gone by now.

[IDBillzFan]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Which NFL organization cares about players?  And which players care about their organizations?

 

Loyalty in professional sports is long gone.  It's all about the Benjamins (except Kelvin.  ***** him).

 

I'm not talking about organizations. I'm talking about culture. The culture at OBD...one of mutual respect, "lift and encourage," and faith...would help someone like Gordon get on a faster track than the culture in NE*, which, under Bellicheck*, is one of almost exclusively "what have you done for me lately?" and "We don't care about your demons if you can help us win."

 

That may be good for Ws, but as a culture is does nothing to help Gordon until he's made to step away, whether he likes it or not.

 

Again...just to  clarify...the comment I responded to was about culture that would "get him back on track." Not organizations.

[BillsMafia13]

1 hour ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/28/josh-gordon-interview-cleveland-browns-nfl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not solely weed and it wouldn't matter if it was. What someone is addicted to can be unimportant to the situation, usually it's just a crutch for other issues. Of course being addicted to gambling or videogames and ignoring family, burning bridges, etc is irresponsible, but it's most certainly not crap.

 

 

I've know multiple people that have committed suicide, even if from the outside it appeared they were living a good life. You never know what's going through someone's head. 

 

If someone is flushing down that much money and that big of an opportunity down the drain, they obviously have some deep seeded issues they're dealing with. Just reading briefly about his past, I'm sure it still weighs on him. It's like women who are sexually abused as kids, it ***** them up for their entire life. I imagine growing up, selling/doing drugs in 7th grade, carrying a gun, and not expecting to make it past early 20's creates some serious issues. 

 

All those scenarios are terrible and his situation is bad too. But your're creating a made up connection between weed and real addiction/ mental illness.  Most cant/shouldnt judge without being in their shoes, but bottom line he chose to smoke weed on top of everything else.   Fact is, right or wrong, he was busted for it over half a dozen times, and only weed to my knowledge. Quitting  should not be put in the same class as people with real issues, he made his choices now he has to live with them.

Not saying hes a bad person or anything but he's an adult who made those choices over an 8 year span.(Mic drop) Im out

Edited December 20, 2018 by BillsMafia13

[NoSaint]

56 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

From the football side, the Patriots did the right thing by bringing him in- low risk, high reward. 

Then, they seemingly shot themselves in the foot by increasing the risk and making him a focal part of their offens before he had proven himself. 

 

Good. Let them suffer.

 

They used him while he was there and will move on when he’s not. That they will have to settle moving forward was better than settling all year. It’s no different to them than if he popped an ACL. 

[colin]

this guy is an addict and the caterwauling usual suspects on this board act like Gordon is a baby with no agency or responsibility. 

 

Stop excusing this guy.  He is straight up a loser, he had the golden goose and he couldn't control himself (in the words of NWA, "he used to have a car, gold, diamond rings, but the cookie cookie crack took all of those things).

 

He either didn't do what he needed to do to get right, which makes him a loser for not trying, or he tried and failed, which by definition makes him a loser.

 

he was given a lot of chances, and he blew them all, how is he not a loser? 

[Magox]

There have been a few of these situations where there were multiple-time-offenders of NFL drug violations that relapsed this year.

 

Aside from Marcel D's drop off in production, the risk of him lapsing into his old habit's was what made Beane nervous about maintaining him.

 

I wish Josh Gordon luck and it should make it a bit easier now to defend them.  Patriots right now have got to be really worried about their playoff prospects.  

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

'Member when all those people said the Bills were stupid for not bringing him in?

 

I 'member.

 

I’d argue were we really better off rolling with benjamin? He’s gone too and cost a heck of a lot more. Or Coleman. Or kerley.

 

to move down 35-45 spots on day 3, id still say was fine with hindsight and missing the potential upside 

Edited December 20, 2018 by NoSaint

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I’d argue we’re we really better off rolling with benjamin? He’s gone too and cost a heck of a lot more. Or Coleman. Or kerley.

 

there to move down 60 spots on day 3, is still say it was fine with hindsight and missing the potential upside 

 

potential heh. potential to be out of the league permanently.

 

[Bing Bong]

29 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Why is everyone so bad at reading around here? Look at what I said- I admitted it was a medical condition. 

 

From your link:

 

 

Now look what I said: 

 

 

 

My meaning, which seemed clear to me, but I will clarify- is that in order for addiction to take place, there MUST be an initial choice to partake in the substance that causes addiction. (Unless force is involved, which seems like it would be a small number of actual addictions, but I do not know the statistics so I am welcome to being proven wrong.) 

 

I believe that there is a predisposition towards certain drugs or other addiction causing issues in many people- but in order for them to become addicted, they must chose to do that drug/substance in the first place. I have a friend who doesn't drink at all because he knows that there's a thick history in his family of addiction to alcohol and he doesn't want to take that chance. 

 

It is a choice in that regard, and the idea that there isn't a choice involved for a man who has all of the necessary rehabilitation devices available to him seems disingenuous to me. I understand that there is treatment and all forms of detailed rehab, but there really does come a point where someone just needs to want to get better. I don't know Josh Gordon, so I won't comment on that side of this or on his desire to get well, but I think it can be a crutch when we call it a disease and remove all personal responsibility.   

It's self medicating. Anxiety disorders, depression are what cause drug use. It's not the best decision to start doing a drug you are susceptible, but people that feel mentally off are more likely to experience something that gives them relief. Sometimes it starts with prescription drugs for the very problem you have. 

 

For many addiction is a symptom to underlying mental health. Which affects your decision making.. your desparation for a change. All that. It's not their addicts because they took a drug because they're predisposed to like it. Sometimes they're predisposed to seek anything other than sobriety because sobriety is so hard on them.

 

Ricky Williams and his crippling social anxiety disorder comes to mind. He knew marijuana would help for him. I don't think marijuana is particularly life threatening for people dependent on it, it certainly is for football, but Ricky made the choice to self medicate.

 

You make a good point but there are different types of addicts.. and I think you are narrowing on a certain subgroup.

Edited December 20, 2018 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[NoSaint]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

potential heh. potential to be out of the league permanently.

 

 

Thinking out loud I just edited that it’s trading a bottom 5th for top of 7th.... so 35-40ish draft slots on day 3? It’s possible they still get the exact guy they end up targeting AND got a starting WR for half a season on a contract for peanuts. Again, even in this worst case, was it really a loss for them? Erase all the upside and it’s not a terrible deal.

[freddyjj]

24 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Why is everyone so bad at reading around here? Look at what I said- I admitted it was a medical condition. 

 

From your link:

 

 

Now look what I said: 

 

 

 

My meaning, which seemed clear to me, but I will clarify- is that in order for addiction to take place, there MUST be an initial choice to partake in the substance that causes addiction. (Unless force is involved, which seems like it would be a small number of actual addictions, but I do not know the statistics so I am welcome to being proven wrong.) 

 

I believe that there is a predisposition towards certain drugs or other addiction causing issues in many people- but in order for them to become addicted, they must chose to do that drug/substance in the first place. I have a friend who doesn't drink at all because he knows that there's a thick history in his family of addiction to alcohol and he doesn't want to take that chance. 

 

It is a choice in that regard, and the idea that there isn't a choice involved for a man who has all of the necessary rehabilitation devices available to him seems disingenuous to me. I understand that there is treatment and all forms of detailed rehab, but there really does come a point where someone just needs to want to get better. I don't know Josh Gordon, so I won't comment on that side of this or on his desire to get well, but I think it can be a crutch when we call it a disease and remove all personal responsibility.   

It is not a medical condition. It is a disease.  Like cancer, diabetes etc there are genetic factors.  Not too many of us know our complete family history - might be a factor in Josh's history?  

 

So to follow your train of thought someone can pick up and use for the first time not knowing they are triggering a latent disease.

 

Thanks for the discussion points

[frostbitmic]

And this years new holiday show ... Martavis Bryant and Josh Gordon's green Christmas.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[freddyjj]

Why is everyone so sure it is weed.  Alcohol use has gotten guys suspended - Hal Garner and Robb Riddick on the Bills btw back in the day.