Police Standards Are A Problem

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

When I was 14 we used to rob the vending machine after football practice. I doubt a cop would have touched up a middle class white kid like me like that. 

 

When I was in Iraq my first deployment we used to hand out money to Haj. I don’t know why, I don’t remember. We’d meet head Hajies at the hand-Haj-money place. It’d be me (5’6”, 140 lbs) and a few other bro’s trying to manage hundreds of Hajies all pushing and shoving and trying to get their way up front. Frequently I’d have to grab Haj by the neck or give Haj a good stiff kicking. On a few occasions I had to utilize my Haji-be-good stick and give one of the savages a good smacking. But NEVER did I get that rough with Haj unless Haj deserved it. $1.25 candy bar ain’t worth that. That’s just a white trash cop who needs to be put in his place. 

 

That cop is a coward. That boy is a boy. Shame on him. And if the kids dad makes a thing of it with the cop — he’ll get a round of applause from me. 

You are making a correlation between two totally different situations.  The two situations you described have nothing to do with each other.  You don't come back stateside and think the two situations even compute.

 

Thank you for your service.  The situation there had absolutely no bearing on how we instill order here.

[TakeYouToTasker]

10 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

When I was 14 we used to rob the vending machine after football practice. I doubt a cop would have touched up a middle class white kid like me like that. 

 

When I was in Iraq my first deployment we used to hand out money to Haj. I don’t know why, I don’t remember. We’d meet head Hajies at the hand-Haj-money place. It’d be me (5’6”, 140 lbs) and a few other bro’s trying to manage hundreds of Hajies all pushing and shoving and trying to get their way up front. Frequently I’d have to grab Haj by the neck or give Haj a good stiff kicking. On a few occasions I had to utilize my Haji-be-good stick and give one of the savages a good smacking. But NEVER did I get that rough with Haj unless Haj deserved it. $1.25 candy bar ain’t worth that. That’s just a white trash cop who needs to be put in his place. 

 

That cop is a coward. That boy is a boy. Shame on him. And if the kids dad makes a thing of it with the cop — he’ll get a round of applause from me. 

 

You would have deserved to be roughed up if you had been confronted by a teacher about the theft, ignoring them; then confronted by the police officer, ignoring them as well.

 

The 14 year old needed a swift lesson in both respect and morality.

 

Great work on the race baiting and the rather irrelevant story, however.

 

[Alaska Darin]

You know what you don't see in the video?  Anything that led up to it.  It's very conveniently edited to make the cop look as bad as possible.

 

My father would have shook that cop's hand and then took me home and tore me up himself.    Which is why I have the sense today to know the right time to question authority and am courteous to a fault when it comes to manners.

 

That kid isn't a victim.  He's someone who has desperately needed an ass kicking...and probably will need a few more.  Save the "he could have been paralyzed" for whatever other victimization complex you have.  And I promise you...anyone who puts on a first responder uniform in the world today isn't a coward.  They know what they deal with every day and the average American has nary a clue.

[The_Dude]

Just now, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

You would have deserved to be roughed up if you had been confronted by a teacher about the theft, ignoring them; then confronted by the police officer, ignoring them as well.

 

The 14 year old needed a swift lesson in both respect and morality.

 

Great work on the race baiting and the rather irrelevant story, however.

 

 

If I wouldn't treat Haj like that, I don't expect an American citizen, boy, to be treated like that.

I did NOT observe anything of the sort in the video. That cop used excessive force on an American citizen. 

Did you do stupid things at 14? And an ass kicking by an adult and an "authority" figure is not a lesson in morality. The cop needs a lesson in morality.

Just now, Alaska Darin said:

You know what you don't see in the video?  Anything that led up to it.  It's very conveniently edited to make the cop look as bad as possible.

 

My father would have shook that cop's hand and then took me home and tore me up himself.    Which is why I have the sense today to know the right time to question authority and am courteous to a fault when it comes to manners.

 

That kid isn't a victim.  He's someone who has desperately needed an ass kicking...and probably will need a few more.

 

That part is true. 100%. I'd like to see what happened before.

8 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You are making a correlation between two totally different situations.  The two situations you described have nothing to do with each other.  You don't come back stateside and think the two situations even compute.

 

Thank you for your service.  The situation there had absolutely no bearing on how we instill order here.

 

Exactly. American children deserve to be treated better than filthy Haj. That's my point.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

If I wouldn't treat Haj like that, I don't expect an American citizen, boy, to be treated like that.

I did NOT observe anything of the sort in the video. That cop used excessive force on an American citizen. 

Did you do stupid things at 14? And an ass kicking by an adult and an "authority" figure is not a lesson in morality. The cop needs a lesson in morality.

 

That part is true. 100%. I'd like to see what happened before.

 

Exactly. American children deserve to be treated better than filthy Haj. That's my point.

Seek help man.

[shrader]

1 minute ago, Alaska Darin said:

You know what you don't see in the video?  Anything that led up to it.  It's very conveniently edited to make the cop look as bad as possible.

 

My father would have shook that cop's hand and then took me home and tore me up himself.    Which is why I have the sense today to know the right time to question authority and am courteous to a fault when it comes to manners.

 

That kid isn't a victim.  He's someone who has desperately needed an ass kicking...and probably will need a few more.

 

Hell, you don't even see the kid hit the ground.  But yes, let's completely condemn the entire police force across this country based on 3 seconds of limited video.

[Alaska Darin]

2 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

Exactly. American children deserve to be treated better than filthy Haj. That's my point.

Dude...get some counseling.

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Dude...get some counseling.

 

You can probably get some free counseling at your local mosque...

[TakeYouToTasker]

1 minute ago, The_Dude said:

If I wouldn't treat Haj like that, I don't expect an American citizen, boy, to be treated like that.

 

I'm of the belief that most of our societies ills are caused by poor parenting/lack of parenting, and a fundamental lack of respect for the rights of other people; and that many of these problems can be solved with a good ass beating when someone is still young enough to learn that if they behave poorly, they will justifiably get their ass kicked.

 

None of this is relevant in any way to anyone's experience as an occupying soldier.

 

I did NOT observe anything of the sort in the video. That cop used excessive force on an American citizen.

 

As was mentioned, and you address here:

 

"That part is true. 100%. I'd like to see what happened before."

 

That is my understanding of the lead-in to that encounter.  I also disagree that it was excessive force.

 

Did you do stupid things at 14? And an ass kicking by an adult and an "authority" figure is not a lesson in morality. The cop needs a lesson in morality.

 

I attended Catholic schools, and the punishment there was corporal.  The Brothers wouldn't hesitate to punch or throw a student for certain types of misbehavior, theft most certainly amongst them; and it was corrective.  It worked.

 

And there's nothing wrong with it.

 

Discipline is not the sole province of parents, especially in the absence of parents; or in situations which indicate parents have neglected to discipline.

 

 

[Sig1Hunter]

7 hours ago, The_Dude said:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/14-year-old-boy-choked-body-slammed-police-stealing-chocolate-school-vending-machine-scared-life-191740898.html

 

The problem with American cops is that they're uneducated, extremely aggressive in situations where they don't need to be, and cowardly in situations where they need to be aggressive.

Look at this fatass cop slam this boy. That boy weighs 120 lbs. In no way was that reaction necessary. The theft of a $1.25 candy bar does not give a cop the authority to hurt a child. What if that boy landed on his spine wrong and fatass Barney dealt that boy a life altering spinal injury?

Routinely I am disgusted by law enforcement in this country. Since cops "waited for SWAT" at Columbine I've known our law enforcement isn't up to snuff.

Further, what do we expect? We're paying these uneducated morons like they're uneducated morons. Part of that is the problem. I believe base salary for a cop ought be $80,000 a year. I promise, $80,000 a year with benefits will increase the talent acquisition. But, we need to start demanding educated cops. A 4-year degree should be the floor for that position. Most cops will disagree with me because they're largely uneducated which is why they're always doing retarded things.

This may really piss people off but it's the truth. I was an uneducated NCO in the Army. It was obvious that officers were superior soldiers to NCOs. Education is a thing and it helps. Because I was so aware of that gap, the first thing I did when I left the service was put my GI Bill to work.

Further, I have a HUGE problem with police hiring standards. Odds are if you're a cop, you lied to get your job. I submitted an application with a law enforcement agency when I left the service. I was clean as a whistle with a decorated military background. I was denied. Why? I admitted to the heinous crime of buying a dime bag of weed when I was 16. When I brought this up on social media I had 3 veteran friends, then cops, PM me and state 'bro, you gotta lie.' Whatever....It worked out for the best as that road block resulted in my making more money than a cop so I'm cool.

We need law enforcement. But we need them to be better, because fattymagoo slamming children is unacceptable. BUT -- ya gotta pay for it. If you offer $30,000 a year then your hiring standards can't be more than a GED, a pulse, and a lying applicant. And we've got plenty of them. 

Now, obviously there are a great and many wonderful police offers who are a credit to their profession who don't meet the standards I outlined. Grandfather them in, but for gods sake raise the standards, and for gods sake we gotta pay for it. It's a hard job, and they deserve better compensation. 

But the piece of ***** in this video deserves to be fired, and jail for assault of a minor. 

 

The broad brush you use to paint on your canvas of ignorance is amazingly disgusting. 

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, The_Dude said:

 

A 14 year old kid stealing a candy bar does not deserve to be put in a position where he could be paralyzed. That was unnecessary and excessive force. He’s a child. I saw him being assaulted and not resisting anything. By the time he turned around, he was being assaulted. Illegally. 

 

When you step outside of the bounds of society (laws) and resist those who have been duly sworn to uphold said bounds, you lose your right to civilized treatment. 

 

Speeding is a minor infraction. If, when a police cruiser lights up behind me for speeding, I ignore him and continue on in my action, I am 100% responsible for what happens when they put spike strips on the ground and my truck flips causing my paralysis. 

 

This is the Michael Brown ***** all over again. When you break the laws and resist the lawkeepers, you subject yourself to the lawkeepers action. 

 

It's also important to note that in the video, the kid admits that he was at first grabbed by a coach. A coach who is not in this video as best as I can see- Inference being that he was originally pulled away from his petty crime, and then returned. He's not a victim. 

 

 

Also, the comments of the article are pretty universally in line with my way of thinking. 

 

Quote

"I'm traumatized and can't sleep"... good lord... give me a break kid. 

Don't steal and have accountability for your actions. I saw nothing excessive about the incident. You broke the law and were dealt with. If I had broken the law in the same manner... I would have been dealt with in the same manner.

 

 

Quote

"She tells the news station that Asah was charged with theft and disorderly conduct." Ummm.... yes, ma'am.... when you take something that is NOT yours to take, then they call that, "theft". No ma'am, you don't get beaten for that offense- you get the beating for resisting arrest and not coming along peacefully- that's where the charge of disorderly conduct comes in. Of course, if your "little angel" had just left what was not his alone to begin with, none of this would have happened. Maybe he'll learn something from this that you obviously haven't taught him yet?

 

 

Quote

It's not " children" it's big teenagers. I work at school and I am smaller than many of our 6th graders, he's a 9th grader, I wouldn't attempt to physically stop him, but I wouldn't just let him steal either, so... police it is.
Parenting fixes a lot of issues

 

 

Quote

Where in the story says that, at least one of parents said "my child was wrong for taking the candy without paying".?

 

 

Quote

It is great that he was "scared for his life". Hopefully it also scared him enough that he will never steal again, because, after reading the story it seems the parent is not using this situation to teach the child to not steal. They are teaching him to blame others when you do something wrong. Here we are with the criminal is a victim scenario.

 

@The_Dude

 

This seems to be the most telling part of the article: "Police were reportedly called when teachers couldn’t stop the children."

 

This isn't a 14 year old kid walking down the street after stealing a candy bar. This is a riot so bad that the authority structure of the school couldn't handle it so they called the police.

 

In this light, taking down a kid who was more than physically capable of hurting the officers seems justified to me. 

[RaoulDuke79]

7 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

Yeah, it does. 

 

Go survey the KKK on their education level. 

Go survey congress.

[The_Dude]

1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

I'm of the belief that most of our societies ills are caused by poor parenting/lack of parenting, and a fundamental lack of respect for the rights of other people; and that many of these problems can be solved with a good ass beating when someone is still young enough to learn that if they behave poorly, they will justifiably get their ass kicked.

 

None of this is relevant in any way to anyone's experience as an occupying soldier.

 

 

 

 

As was mentioned, and you address here:

 

"That part is true. 100%. I'd like to see what happened before."

 

That is my understanding of the lead-in to that encounter.  I also disagree that it was excessive force.

 

 

 

I attended Catholic schools, and the punishment there was corporal.  The Brothers wouldn't hesitate to punch or throw a student for certain types of misbehavior, theft most certainly amongst them; and it was corrective.  It worked.

 

And there's nothing wrong with it.

 

Discipline is not the sole province of parents, especially in the absence of parents; or in situations which indicate parents have neglected to discipline.

 

 

 

I do not believe in hitting children. 

29 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

When you step outside of the bounds of society (laws) and resist those who have been duly sworn to uphold said bounds, you lose your right to civilized treatment. 

 

Speeding is a minor infraction. If, when a police cruiser lights up behind me for speeding, I ignore him and continue on in my action, I am 100% responsible for what happens when they put spike strips on the ground and my truck flips causing my paralysis. 

 

This is the Michael Brown ***** all over again. When you break the laws and resist the lawkeepers, you subject yourself to the lawkeepers action. 

 

It's also important to note that in the video, the kid admits that he was at first grabbed by a coach. A coach who is not in this video as best as I can see- Inference being that he was originally pulled away from his petty crime, and then returned. He's not a victim. 

 

 

Also, the comments of the article are pretty universally in line with my way of thinking. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@The_Dude

 

This seems to be the most telling part of the article: "Police were reportedly called when teachers couldn’t stop the children."

 

This isn't a 14 year old kid walking down the street after stealing a candy bar. This is a riot so bad that the authority structure of the school couldn't handle it so they called the police.

 

In this light, taking down a kid who was more than physically capable of hurting the officers seems justified to me. 

 

Michael Brown was a big boy, and I was never on his side. That was a big boy. Not a little boy.

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

I do not believe in hitting children. 

 

Michael Brown was a big boy, and I was never on his side. That was a big boy. Not a little boy.

 

What if it was a big child? 

 

What if the child was holding a knife? 

 

What if the child had just beat a woman and was holding her by the hair and kicking her? 

 

What if the child was holding a bomb? 

[The_Dude]

Just now, whatdrought said:

 

What if it was a big child? 

 

What if the child was holding a knife? 

 

What if the child had just beat a woman and was holding her by the hair and kicking her? 

 

What if the child was holding a bomb? 

 

But it wasn't.

Each situation is different. Each situation deserves to be handled differently. But I do know when it's a child that small, there is literally NO reason to use that much force. It's just not necessary. 

I believe in a responsible escalation of force. To an extent. 

[TakeYouToTasker]

8 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

I do not believe in hitting children.

 

I think that's a dopey approach to raising children, and often leads to situations where children don't understand that in life there can be immediate physical consequences to their actions.

 

You also don't get to dictate to the rest of the world how they will handle these sorts of situations, so it would behoove you to come to understand that they best way to raise your kids is to make them acutely aware that there are examples of poor behavior which will justifiably lead to them getting their ass kicked by a peer, a group of peers, or an authority figure.

 

So while you're free to do what you want with your own kids, you share the world with others whom will teach them hard lessons if you don't properly prepare them. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[The_Dude]

Just now, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

I think that's a dopey approach to raising children, and often leads to situations where children don't understand that in life there can be immediate physical consequences to their actions.

 

You also don't get to dictate to the rest of the world how they will handle these sorts of situations, so it would behoove you to come to understand that they best way to raise your kids is to make them acutely aware that there are examples of poor behavior which will justifiably lead to them getting their ass kicked by a peer, a group of peers, or an authority figure. 

 

Who's dictating to the world? 

You raise your kids how you want, leave others to raise theirs how they want. Otherwise you might be the dude getting your ass kicked. Just maybe. I've found one thing that all parents hate is being told how to parent their children. You probably shouldn't do it. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by The_Dude

[whatdrought]

7 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

But it wasn't.

Each situation is different. Each situation deserves to be handled differently. But I do know when it's a child that small, there is literally NO reason to use that much force. It's just not necessary. 

I believe in a responsible escalation of force. To an extent. 

 

I can agree with your last, and I think that it really depends on the context beyond what we've seen. 

 

I can say comfortably that that kid is no victim, and that I don't know whether or not if the officer was wrong. 

[TakeYouToTasker]

15 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

Who's dictating to the world? 

You raise your kids how you want, leave others to raise theirs how they want. Otherwise you might be the dude getting your ass kicked. Just maybe.

 

You're entitled to raise your kids however you want, with the understanding that you lose your individual authority to discipline them when they engage in poor behavior in public settings, such as theft, when you aren't around, or even if you are around and the problem isn't corrected.

 

Your prerogative to raise your child as you see fit does not extend to them being permitted to exhibit criminal behavior without physical corrective action being taken against them.  Not raising them in such a way that they have a deep understanding of this, and that their actions have consequences, is doing them an incredible disservice.

[The_Dude]

28 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

You're entitled to raise your kids however you want, with the understanding that you lose your individual authority to discipline them when they engage in poor behavior in public settings, such as theft, when you aren't around, or even if you are around and the problem isn't corrected.

 

Your prerogative to raise your child as you see fit does not extend to them being permitted to exhibit criminal behavior without physical corrective action being taken against them.  Not raising them in such a way that they have a deep understanding of this, and that their actions have consequences, is doing them an incredible disservice.

 

Hey, I’m the goddamn paterfamilias! I knows what I’m doins.