Police Standards Are A Problem

[The_Dude]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/14-year-old-boy-choked-body-slammed-police-stealing-chocolate-school-vending-machine-scared-life-191740898.html

 

The problem with American cops is that they're uneducated, extremely aggressive in situations where they don't need to be, and cowardly in situations where they need to be aggressive.

Look at this fatass cop slam this boy. That boy weighs 120 lbs. In no way was that reaction necessary. The theft of a $1.25 candy bar does not give a cop the authority to hurt a child. What if that boy landed on his spine wrong and fatass Barney dealt that boy a life altering spinal injury?

Routinely I am disgusted by law enforcement in this country. Since cops "waited for SWAT" at Columbine I've known our law enforcement isn't up to snuff.

Further, what do we expect? We're paying these uneducated morons like they're uneducated morons. Part of that is the problem. I believe base salary for a cop ought be $80,000 a year. I promise, $80,000 a year with benefits will increase the talent acquisition. But, we need to start demanding educated cops. A 4-year degree should be the floor for that position. Most cops will disagree with me because they're largely uneducated which is why they're always doing retarded things.

This may really piss people off but it's the truth. I was an uneducated NCO in the Army. It was obvious that officers were superior soldiers to NCOs. Education is a thing and it helps. Because I was so aware of that gap, the first thing I did when I left the service was put my GI Bill to work.

Further, I have a HUGE problem with police hiring standards. Odds are if you're a cop, you lied to get your job. I submitted an application with a law enforcement agency when I left the service. I was clean as a whistle with a decorated military background. I was denied. Why? I admitted to the heinous crime of buying a dime bag of weed when I was 16. When I brought this up on social media I had 3 veteran friends, then cops, PM me and state 'bro, you gotta lie.' Whatever....It worked out for the best as that road block resulted in my making more money than a cop so I'm cool.

We need law enforcement. But we need them to be better, because fattymagoo slamming children is unacceptable. BUT -- ya gotta pay for it. If you offer $30,000 a year then your hiring standards can't be more than a GED, a pulse, and a lying applicant. And we've got plenty of them. 

Now, obviously there are a great and many wonderful police offers who are a credit to their profession who don't meet the standards I outlined. Grandfather them in, but for gods sake raise the standards, and for gods sake we gotta pay for it. It's a hard job, and they deserve better compensation. 

But the piece of ***** in this video deserves to be fired, and jail for assault of a minor. 

 

[boyst]

 

Changing this to a classic country music thread.

[Greybeard]

     Being educated doesn't make anyone more or less of an ***hole.  

[The_Dude]

1 minute ago, Greybeard said:

     Being educated doesn't make anyone more or less of an ***hole.  

 

Yeah, it does. 

 

Go survey the KKK on their education level. 

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, Greybeard said:

     Being educated doesn't make anyone more or less of an ***hole.  

Yes, but you should know the difference between "heal" and "heel".

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I've noticed actually a few false dichotomies from both advocated and critics of police.

 

For advocates, the divide is that either you let the police do their job, or you let rampant lawlessness go free. If you listen to the most recent season of Serial, the head of Cleveland Police Officers union is asked, regarding the fatal shooting of a 12 year old with a BB gun (Tamir Rice) that zero mistakes were made and the only way to avoid fatal shooting of unarmed civilians is "we don't show up".

 

Zero amount of oversight is needed. Nothing needs to change, other than the public needs to hand over more money.

 

For critics, I've heard "There's no such thing as a good cop", in that there is no such thing as a good cop, because good cops allow for the existence of bad cops. Never mind the fact that they have zero ways to personally fix that.

 

I don't mean to go all Centrist here, but come on, there has to be a middle ground where we recognize that police ought to be better compensated for the risks they take, but that also with the increased authority and visibility, that they have to be held than a higher standard. When we see cases where you see police planting evidence when they think their body cams are off, or you see incidents where suspects are beaten to a bloody pulp, or a legal gun owner is shot and killed after informing the officer that he has his weapon in the car and the excuse is "I smelled the distinct odor or marijuana" or "I saw a bulge" and there are zero consequences, I don't understand how people don't see a need for higher standards and training.

15 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

     Being educated doesn't make anyone more or less of an ***hole.  

 

Maybe, but we have heard from a lot of vets from Iraq and Afghanistan that the rules of engagement were figuratively beat into them. Proper threat escalation and determination was a vital part of their everyday life.

 

Unless you are saying that the US is more dangerous than Iraq or Afghanistan, I have to imagine that we could take that training and apply it here.

[The_Dude]

36 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Yes, but you should know the difference between "heal" and "heel".

 

And I do. However, I don't proofread my stuff and even if I did I'd give myself a 75% chance of missing it. 

28 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

Maybe, but we have heard from a lot of vets from Iraq and Afghanistan that the rules of engagement were figuratively beat into them. Proper threat escalation and determination was a vital part of their everyday life.

 

Unless you are saying that the US is more dangerous than Iraq or Afghanistan, I have to imagine that we could take that training and apply it here.

 

 

No joke, I got a very mild slap on the wrist for shooting a car with non-lethal shotgun ammo on my 2nd deployment. (04-05)

 

My first deployment (03-04) was grand theft auto rules! Thems were the days. 

 

But yeah, they were soooo damn strict in 04-05, and during the Obama years you were supposed to let Haj kill you before firing a warning shot.

[B-Man]

87-12: Senate overwhelmingly passes criminal justice reform...

 

Bipartisan victory for Trump...

[3rdnlng]

18 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

And I do. However, I don't proofread my stuff and even if I did I'd give myself a 75% chance of missing it. 

 

 

 

Do you not see the irony here? On the one hand you claim an absolutism that being educated makes a person less of an asswhole while on the other hand making excuses for your own inabilities.

[The_Dude]

49 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Do you not see the irony here? On the one hand you claim an absolutism that being educated makes a person less of an asswhole while on the other hand making excuses for your own inabilities.

 

Was “asswhole” an attempt at humor? 

 

And thats not my point for this. That’s not my point. My point is that educated people are a higher caliber of people and that is what we need in law enforcement. 

 

It is not incorrect for me to state that cops are given more leniency in their actions than deployed soldiers. US citizens are treated in a way that soldiers can’t treat terrorists. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by The_Dude

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, The_Dude said:

 

Was “asswhole” an attempt at humor? 

 

And thats not my point for this. That’s not my point. My point is that educated people are a higher caliber of people and that is what we need in law enforcement. 

 

It is not incorrect for me to state that cops are given more leniency in their actions than deployed soldiers. US citizens are treated in a way that soldiers can’t treat terrorists. 

"Asswhole" is a way around the filter. You've missed my point completely.

[The_Dude]

1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said:

"Asswhole" is a way around the filter. You've missed my point completely.

 

I’ve long maintained that I do not / will not grammar check my ***** on a message board. I’m too busy to spend the time I do spend on here as it is. I don’t spell check / grammar check message board posts or emails to subordinates or when I’m the customer. Far too busy. 

[whatdrought]

41 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

And thats not my point for this. That’s not my point. My point is that educated people are a higher caliber of people and that is what we need in law enforcement. 

 

 

As someone with a 4 year degree, coming from a highly educated family, I can personally say that this is a crazy statement.

 

Education isn’t worth a thing in of itself. It’s a tool towards betterment, but it has no value if improperly applied.

 

I spent 2 semesters in a Criminal Justice program before my life went a different direction, and I can say wholeheartedly that if I had become a cop, that education would not have increased my skill at all. 

 

Also, the argument in the OP that cops need education, and most cops will disagree because they’re uneducated is ridiculous. 

 

I do agree that Cops are underpaid. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by whatdrought

[The_Dude]

11 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

 

As someone with a 4 year degree, coming from a highly educated family, I can personally say that this is a crazy statement.

 

Education isn’t worth a thing in of itself. It’s a tool towards betterment, but it has no value if improperly applied.

 

I spent 2 semesters in a Criminal Justice program before my life went a different direction, and I can say wholeheartedly that if I had become a cop, that education would not have increased my skill at all. 

 

Also, the argument in the OP that cops need education, and most cops will disagree because they’re uneducated is ridiculous. 

 

I do agree that Cops are underpaid. 

 

 

 

If at nothing else a 4-year degree will weed out a great deal of the lazy and stupid from achieving a “badge.” And by that alone it should be implemented. 

[whatdrought]

10 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

If at nothing else a 4-year degree will weed out a great deal of the lazy and stupid from achieving a “badge.” And by that alone it should be implemented. 

 

And at the same time, weed out a lot of good cops who either don’t have the ability to get a 4 year degree, or else don’t have the desire to spend 4 years in school to work a crappy job when they could get a 18 month trade cert. and get paid twice as much. (Though that does speak to your point about compensation for our police force)

 

 Again, my point is - education does not have value in of itself. I can easily find 100 highly educated people who can’t hold a candle to 100 uneducated people. School’s don’t teach brains. 

 

Im glad your experience with education was good for you, but I’d wager to gues that it was merely a key that unlocked your potential to be a decent person. It didn’t grant you that potential. That being said, that potential is unlocked through a billion different things for a billIon different people.

 

The problem (if there is one) is that the process of selecting officers and training officers is broken. And why wouldn’t it be- it’s a government program. 

 

Another huge issue that I have with this thread, is that, while it’s completely true that that cop didn’t need to act as aggressively as he did- the kid still earned it. When you resist the cops while in the midst of committing a crime, you subject yourself to intervention. Again, not defending this officer, but the fact that the Media is sitting down and treating this kid like he’s a victim and not addressing the fact that he broke the law and resisted the police, is one of the biggest problems in society. 

There is a whole generation that believes the cops can’t enforce laws and that if they do it’s racist or brutality. It’s ridiculous. I have absolutely no sympathy for this kid, regardless of his being 14. 

[Alaska Darin]

Officers are superior soldiers to NCOs?  Forgive me while I laugh uproariously.

 

Education in America today is indoctrination.  Very few public or private "education" entities "teach" people how to think critically anymore, which is why we see continued unabated escalations in almost every social situation.  Everyone is a victim and bears little or no responsibility for their actions/responses.

 

What we've lost in America is honor and integrity.  That's not an educational problem...it's a moral one.

[The_Dude]

4 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

And at the same time, weed out a lot of good cops who either don’t have the ability to get a 4 year degree, or else don’t have the desire to spend 4 years in school to work a crappy job when they could get a 18 month trade cert. and get paid twice as much. (Though that does speak to your point about compensation for our police force)

 

 Again, my point is - education does not have value in of itself. I can easily find 100 highly educated people who can’t hold a candle to 100 uneducated people. School’s don’t teach brains. 

 

Im glad your experience with education was good for you, but I’d wager to gues that it was merely a key that unlocked your potential to be a decent person. It didn’t grant you that potential. That being said, that potential is unlocked through a billion different things for a billIon different people.

 

The problem (if there is one) is that the process of selecting officers and training officers is broken. And why wouldn’t it be- it’s a government program. 

 

Another huge issue that I have with this thread, is that, while it’s completely true that that cop didn’t need to act as aggressively as he did- the kid still earned it. When you resist the cops while in the midst of committing a crime, you subject yourself to intervention. Again, not defending this officer, but the fact that the Media is sitting down and treating this kid like he’s a victim and not addressing the fact that he broke the law and resisted the police, is one of the biggest problems in society. 

There is a whole generation that believes the cops can’t enforce laws and that if they do it’s racist or brutality. It’s ridiculous. I have absolutely no sympathy for this kid, regardless of his being 14. 

 

As it currently stands, the basic requirements to kill American citizens are equal to that of a Walmart cashier. I advocate change and am not open to opposition of change but I am open to better ideas. I’ve thought it through and while my plan isn’t perfect it’s better than doing nothing. If you have a better plan please do share. 

[TakeYouToTasker]

3 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Education in America today is indoctrination.  Very few public or private "education" entities "teach" people how to think critically anymore, which is why we see continued unabated escalations in almost every social situation.  Everyone is a victim and bears little or no responsibility for their actions/responses.

 

What we've lost in America is honor and integrity.  That's not an educational problem...it's a moral one.

 

Well said.

[The_Dude]

2 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Officers are superior soldiers to NCOs?  Forgive me while I laugh uproariously.

 

Unequivocally. 

 

I personally had the worst Lt. ever commissioned. He was far and away the exception. The finest soldiers I served with were officers. That’s not to say there weren’t many fine NCOs. But a captain is far and away better than any E5/6. 

[whatdrought]

14 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

As it currently stands, the basic requirements to kill American citizens are equal to that of a Walmart cashier. I advocate change and am not open to opposition of change but I am open to better ideas. I’ve thought it through and while my plan isn’t perfect it’s better than doing nothing. If you have a better plan please do share. 

 

My problem with your plan is that it’s not only imperfect, but it doesn’t change anything. Getting a 4 year degree is very easy these days. All that does is build In another requirement that won’t actually solve the problem.

 

The real solution is to get politics out of police work. 

 

The problem is in the government officials that oversee judiciary. It’s the guy in Florida who was a little B word and didn’t go into the school and do his job of confronting the shooter. He got off without any issue, and was widely defended by politicians and media alike because they preferred their “guns kill people” narrative. 

 

I definitely don’t want to see police brutality anymore than anyone else - but I just don’t see educational standards as worth a whole lot.

 

16 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Officers are superior soldiers to NCOs?  Forgive me while I laugh uproariously.

 

Education in America today is indoctrination.  Very few public or private "education" entities "teach" people how to think critically anymore, which is why we see continued unabated escalations in almost every social situation.  Everyone is a victim and bears little or no responsibility for their actions/responses.

 

What we've lost in America is honor and integrity.  That's not an educational problem...it's a moral one.

 

This. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by whatdrought