13 dropped balls all season?????

[Shaw66]

45 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Doesnt matter. It’s 100% on Clay.  If you need the ball to hit you in the numbers to make a catch, you don’t belong in the NFL.  90+% of all completed passes could be “placed better”.  It’s such a ridiculous notion to think QBs need to hit a perfect throw each time.  

 

Sometimes I wonder if people watch football outside Bills games.  Rodgers, Brees, etc make a throw just like that one many times every week.  A catchable pass that “could have” been in an even easier spot to catch.  The difference is, their guys make the play.  

 

I mean you can literally pick a part 90+% of all completed passes, and maybe more, and say well it would have been easier to cacth if the ball was placed in this other exact spot.  There is just no excuse for Clay to drop that pass, not one.

 

Doesnt make Allen infalliable, every throw gets analayzed to see what could have been done better, and I’m sure Allen is looking to get that ball higher there in the future.  But it in no way excuses the drop, you absolutely have to cacth that pass, and Clays drop isn’t an anamoly, he’s made plenty.

You're 100% wrong.

 

There are only two things that 100% certain about that play, at least things that matter.  It's 100% certain that McDermott and Clay will both tell you that Clay should have caught it.  And it's 100% certain that both McDermott and Allen will tell you that Allen should have thrown it better.  

 

When these guys get graded on that play, and they do get graded, Clay will get high markets for his recognition and route running and low marks for his execution of the catch.  Allen will get high marks for handling the pocket, recognition and decent but not high marks for the throw.   Clay won't get an F- and Allen won't get an A+ on the play.   

 

If you want to place blame AND if blame has to be 100%, then Clay gets the blame, because his total grade certainly is lower than Allen's.   But these coaches are not about blame.  They're about improvement, and your dreaming if you think the coaches didn't tell Allen that he didn't completely meet his objective on that play.   Of course, they didn't have to tell him, because he already knew.  

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You're 100% wrong.

 

There are only two things that 100% certain about that play, at least things that matter.  It's 100% certain that McDermott and Clay will both tell you that Clay should have caught it.  And it's 100% certain that both McDermott and Allen will tell you that Allen should have thrown it better.  

 

When these guys get graded on that play, and they do get graded, Clay will get high markets for his recognition and route running and low marks for his execution of the catch.  Allen will get high marks for handling the pocket, recognition and decent but not high marks for the throw.   Clay won't get an F- and Allen won't get an A+ on the play.   

 

If you want to place blame AND if blame has to be 100%, then Clay gets the blame, because his total grade certainly is lower than Allen's.   But these coaches are not about blame.  They're about improvement, and your dreaming if you think the coaches didn't tell Allen that he didn't completely meet his objective on that play.   Of course, they didn't have to tell him, because he already knew.  

 

Wrong.  The ball was in a more than catchable location.  The failure to complete is 100% on Clay.  Of course Allen could have made it “easier” but that’s categorically not an excuse to justify a flat out drop.  

 

Again, you can literally pick apart the accuracy of about 90% of passes thrown and show how it could have been thrown better.  Brees, Rodgers, Brady, everyone makes throws that are as “off” as this one was every week that are complete because their guys make a play.  

 

Again, it’s not incorrect to say it could have been better placed.  But it’s categorically incorrect to excuse, validate, or justify Clay dropping that pass. And the vast majority of people putting that mostly on Allen are the same people who are already critical of him and looking for any sign of evidence to sell their negative, pessimistic, or doubtful outlook on Allen.  

 

Nobody is saying Allen can’t improve the ball location, but it’s ridiculous to blame the ball location (which wasn’t that bad) to validate yet another failure by Clay.  

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Wrong.  The ball was in a more than catchable location.  The failure to complete is 100% on Clay.  Of course Allen could have made it “easier” but that’s categorically not an excuse to justify a flat out drop.  

 

Again, you can literally pick apart the accuracy of about 90% of passes thrown and show how it could have been thrown better.  Brees, Rodgers, Brady, everyone makes throws that are as “off” as this one was every week that are complete because their guys make a play.  

 

Again, it’s not incorrect to say it could have been better placed.  But it’s categorically incorrect to excuse, validate, or justify Clay dropping that pass. And the vast majority of people putting that mostly on Allen are the same people who are already critical of him and looking for any sign of evidence to sell their negative, pessimistic, or doubtful outlook on Allen.  

 

Nobody is saying Allen can’t improve the ball location, but it’s ridiculous to blame the ball location (which wasn’t that bad) to validate yet another failure by Clay.  

Who is excusing, validating or justifying Clay's play?  No one, so far as I can tell.

 

Who's putting it mostly on Allen? Again, nobody.   

 

So your point seems to be that you want to argue with nobody.  

 

Are we to assume that you're okay with Allen's accuracy? Of you are, you're in the minority.  If you aren't, then despite your arguments, you agree with what several of us have been saying. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, cd1 said:

You can see by these takes that CLAY misjudged the balls velocity.

Perhaps THIS is what happens when old players don't have to practice!

JMO

 

That's actually a good point you and Jesseffer made.  You can see by the second screen shot that Clay is still looking to his left then it's "oh crap there it is" and he lunges for it.

And if Clay is being held out of practice during the week, he has not much chance to adjust to Allen's velocity during practice.

I wonder if that's a problem for Zay also - he had his best week with Barkley and has been poor since Allen came back.

 

6 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Clay probably could not track that ball as it was a bullet on a low trajectory and he has just cleared the defender and the ball is almost there.  Face it, having an arm like that means that Josh can beat the defense anywhere on the field but also means his intended targets get less time to track and adjust to the ball and will have more difficulty actually catching it.  Learning when it's not necessary to drill the ball to the target and instead it's better to lead the receiver into an open area with a touch pass that is easy to track and lands softly is a lesson that experience will teach.  I thought our receiving corps looked much better when catching Matt Barkley's soft tosses, for instance.

 

Also, we as fans tend to ignore a play the DB makes on the ball.  If a DB gets a pbu on a play, we shouldn't view it as a "drop."  Since we want the ball caught regardless of the circumstances, it tends to get recorded in our collective memories as another "*^%&$^%# dropped ball instead of "credit to the defender."

 

To be fair, a touch pass easy to track and landing softly would have landed in arms attached to a white and green jersey.  The adjustment can not be on one side, Allen's.  He has the ability to fire it in there and his targets have to learn to handle 'em.

I agree with your point about contested catches, but there again - the top WR make those catches anyway some of the time.  We don't have anyone on our roster who can make them at all.

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Again, it’s not incorrect to say it could have been better placed.  But it’s categorically incorrect to excuse, validate, or justify Clay dropping that pass. And the vast majority of people putting that mostly on Allen are the same people who are already critical of him and looking for any sign of evidence to sell their negative, pessimistic, or doubtful outlook on Allen. 

 

Who is putting it "mostly on Allen" and "ooking for any sign of evidence to sell their negative, pessimistic, or doubtful outlook on Allen" here?

 

It was a ball that could have been caught, that a number of WR and TE would have caught. 

 

But it's not a catch that would be scored as a dropped pass, nor regarded as a textbook example of "he should have caught that".  Even in the NFL game description it's listed as thrown wide of receiver.

[blacklabel]

19 hours ago, Idandria said:

So a pass is only good if it hits the player perfectly in stride in the numbers. 

 

Receivers arent paid well to make adjustments and do crazy things to come down with the ball, right? 

 

Josh has to make all perfect throws every single time? I say, how about a damn receiver make a great catch that he shouldn’t have made dammit. Like that ODB jr one handed circus catch. Instead we have Clay who can’t make a simple diving catch.

 

Yeah, this is what's up. I don't know if I've ever seen a season in which the receivers just aren't coming down with the ball the way these Bills receivers haven't been doing. For someone as big and (supposedly) as strong as KB, I've never seen more "drops after the catch" from someone. Guy can get his hands on the ball but like, every other pass he couldn't reel it all the way in. It'd get knocked out on his way to the ground, or the ground would knock it out. Zay has passes zipping through his hands and smacking him in the facemask. Clay looks like the most adjusting to a throw he can do is to move his hands maybe 6 or 8 inches outside his frame and that's it. 

 

The receivers they go after in free agency or the draft need to be guys who are really good at adjusting to oddly placed throws and coming down with contested catches. I know Allen can fire a pinpoint perfect pass when everything goes just right for him but that doesn't happen 100% of the time. Allen has that "area code" accuracy going on. He can get it within a receivers catch radius but it's not always gonna be right in the numbers. Receivers that play here are just gonna have to get used to that. I dunno, if I'm Terry Robiskie, maybe I find a way for the Juggs machine to fire "at random" so these guys get used to catching balls from a variety of catch points.

Edited December 19, 2018 by blacklabel

[PrimeTime101]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You're 100% wrong.

 

There are only two things that 100% certain about that play, at least things that matter.  It's 100% certain that McDermott and Clay will both tell you that Clay should have caught it.  And it's 100% certain that both McDermott and Allen will tell you that Allen should have thrown it better.  

 

When these guys get graded on that play, and they do get graded, Clay will get high markets for his recognition and route running and low marks for his execution of the catch.  Allen will get high marks for handling the pocket, recognition and decent but not high marks for the throw.   Clay won't get an F- and Allen won't get an A+ on the play.   

 

If you want to place blame AND if blame has to be 100%, then Clay gets the blame, because his total grade certainly is lower than Allen's.   But these coaches are not about blame.  They're about improvement, and your dreaming if you think the coaches didn't tell Allen that he didn't completely meet his objective on that play.   Of course, they didn't have to tell him, because he already knew.  

I am 100% certain that McD, Josh and Clay tell the fans what the fans want to hear. no more no less. he could of run back to the 10 yard line and caught a pass. Clay did a horrible job tracking it.

[row_33]

4 hours ago, VW82 said:

This is further proof that Josh hasn’t been as accurate as some of you think he’s been. We can all agree the number seems low right? That’s because there have been way more than 13 times this year where the ball touched a receivers hands but still fell incomplete. An objective party looked at all the passes and deemed a huge chunk we’re at least partly on the QB, which is what many of us have been saying. Yes our receivers should have come up with more catches. No these catchable imcompletes are not all their fault.

 

That doesn’t mean Allen sucks or he can’t improve or we’re all biased against. It’s just further evidence that he hasn’t been as consistently accurate as some of you are saying.

 

you have at least 4 straw men you are attacking there...

 

it's only a leisure-time cheering for a team that isn't very good...

[Freddie's Dead]

On 12/18/2018 at 8:00 PM, Billsfan1972 said:

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

 

Where do they find these stats?

 

I can't believe Zay hasn't alone dropped 13 balls this year.

 

To illustrate how bad the statistic is, ESPN did not call Allen's pass to Clay vs. NYJ over the middle a drop.....  

 

Still looking for a replay as he was wide open with room to run and it was a perfect pass and an easy catch.....

 

Heck Zay had two hit him in the hands too that game dropped. 

 

 

 

Kelvin Benjamin alone dropped 6 TD passes.  BS stat.

[Mr. WEO]

13 dropped balls all season?? That's nothing.

 

Allegedly, Peyton Manning dropped a pair of balls after every practice at Tennessee...