13 dropped balls all season?????

[downunderbill]

What I'm getting from this thread is that as long as Clay doesn't have to run too fast or extend his arms at all, he is exempt from catching a ball most decent high school players could make.

 

[Ol Dirty B]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I’m not saying it’s ESPN, just that they have the same level of reliability. If we have 13 drops this season, I am the Easter Bunny. (And since we’ve never met in person....there’s a decision to make!) 

 

Meh... it seems more like you don't like what the stats are so then you seem them not reliable.

42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I guess I get to raise my hand for the dunce cap?  I don't think it was well expressed, but if I understand the basic premise, the OP is saying that teams with great QB or even good QB have WR who make the QB look better, by routinely hauling in those high-degree-of-difficulty "catch that can't be made" catches. 

 

I mean, it's not a state secret that Aaron Rodgers completion % fell off 5 percentage points and his ypg dropped about 10% between 2014 and 2015 when he lost Jordy Nelson, showing an exceptional WR makes a difference even for a great QB.

We can't expect to have a roster full of ODB's but I would like to see one, and the rest better than they are now - hauling in say half of those "makeable but tough" throws.

 

Allen also needs to be better than he is now.

 

 

We've written 40,000 books about it?

 

Routinely making catches that can't be made is one of the worst sentences I've ever read. It makes absolutely no sense. 

 

What happened to Jordy after he left GB? You really think Jordy made Rodgers?

[jlgarsh]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

When they say we have had 13 drops, they lost ALL credibility. That’s just stupid stuff there. My Golden Retriever is more reliable. 

 

He probably has a better catch radius than KB too

[jr1]

[Jay_Fixit]

Nope.

[Doc Brown]

I know I screamed catch the effing ball more than 13 times.  Do they have a stat of % of 50/50 balls caught?

[Boatdrinks]

So, thirteen dropped passes by Bills WRs this season to date? I think we may be seeing the inherent bias of the one compiling these “stats”. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Oh wow, this makes me feel so much better about our WR’s! Cross that off the list of needs for Beane to jump on this off-season! ???‍♂️ (just think, someone got paid to produce this drivel...)

[Boatdrinks]

6 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Oh wow, this makes me feel so much better about our WR’s! Cross that off the list of needs for Beane to jump on this off-season! ???‍♂️ (just think, someone got paid to produce this drivel...)

Lol exactly. Someone’s idea of what constitutes a “ drop” is still only part of the equation. When a WR makes a somewhat more difficult catch on a ball that is slightly ( or more) off, it is simply thrown into the stat basket of a “ catch”. I have no data to back it up, but by my own eye it seems the Bills WR corps makes fewer of those types of catches than WRs on other teams do. 

[Thurman#1]

There have been some nice catches.

 

DiMarco's catch against San Diego with 13:48 left in the third quarter was a really nice catch. He's all alone running straight, completely uncovered and Allen put the ball over the wrong shoulder. DiMarco spun, jumped and fully extended but didn't get enough of his hands on the ball to control it but caught the loose ball anyway as he fell. A really nice catch. The replay showed how tough it was.

 

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think Croom's catch at the end of the Lions game is the only contested catch of the year. I would remember if there was another one. Foster has made some nice adjustments on the ball downfield, but Croom is the only player so far this year that actually won a catch against a defender in tight coverage. Meanwhile we're debating whether a pass that hit a wide open tight end in the hands was accurate enough. The standards here are crazy.

 

Your memory's letting you down a bit, Happy.

 

In the Charger's game the TD to Benjamin at the end was very contested, with one guy reaching for the ball and another drilling Benjamin as he brings the ball in.

 

Ah, I'd forgotten about the penalty on this one. 3rd quarter in Houston at 5:54, Benjamin highpoints a ball with a guy wrapped around him for a 44 yard gain, but there was an illegal formation penalty which nullified the gain.

 

Zay Jones against the Pats, 4th quarter 8:31, the Pats #1, Jones, arrives as the catch is being made and tries to rip it out unsuccessfully.

 

I'm sure there were more.

 

Not that I'm arguing that the Bills receivers are good enough. But they're not often getting put into situations where the plays are contested. Benjamin was, but this year for whatever reason he wasn't hanging on to the ball the few times it was contested. It was frustrating as hell to see that.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Thurman#1

[The Wiz]

2 hours ago, BillsSB2020 said:

We dissect this play around here like the freaking JFK assassination. The life of a Bills fan!

Well the failed first down did end up in Allen fumbling away the possession. 

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

At that speed it looks like Allen knocked him over with the ball.

That's normal speed so your theory holds water. 

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

 

 

I am always unsure if people who make this argument know how dumb they sound. So I guess now I’ll ask? 

 

What the Bills need is receivers to make catches they wouldn’t be expected to make? And if they had receivers make catches they weren’t expected to make, then our QB would be better? 

 

Or maybe, just say...Josh Allen really puts his receivers in tough positions. We can’t expect to have a roster for of ODB’s, but they have to be better than they are now...

 

 

 

No, what Bills fans want are receivers who make catches OTHER teams' fans expect them to make. Bills fans don't remember what that looks like, outside of some sporadic Sammy Watkins highlights (against KC, and that one-handed stab-and-gather in Detroit on the game-winning drive). 

 

I actually jump up when one of our receivers snatches the ball with two hands, away from his body. 

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

The pass to Clay was catchable, but it was, most definitely, not perfect...in fact, in real time, it appeared low and away...but with a little more effort, the catch could have been made.

 

So in other words, a drop.  Clay dropped it.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

5 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

KB alone had to have 13 drops 

In a half...numerous halves.

 

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

When they say we have had 13 drops, they lost ALL credibility. That’s just stupid stuff there. My Golden Retriever is more reliable. 

Only if the ball’s underinflated.

[WhyteDwarf]

7 hours ago, Mango said:

 

 

I mean, comparatively we can get an idea to other teams. Assuming the standard for a catchable ball remains the same, the stat has “some value” outside of frequency. 

 

It looks like we are right around average. 

 

Yep, which is why 50% completion is so concerning, it's not all dropped passes.

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So in other words, a drop.  Clay dropped it.  

If your definition of a drop is hitting the receiver in the hand, then yes...but I could also understand arguments the other way as well....and even if you decide to classify it as a drop, it still doesn’t change the fact that Allen’s throw was not as accurate as it could have been with a clean pocket and a wide open receiver...that should have been a 50 yard catch and run...and it’s throws like that that keep Allen hovering around 50% completions....if he can fix that in the offseason, sky is the limit with this kid.?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

If your definition of a drop is hitting the receiver in the hand, then yes...but I could also understand arguments the other way as well....and even if you decide to classify it as a drop, it still doesn’t change the fact that Allen’s throw was not as accurate as it could have been with a clean pocket and a wide open receiver...that should have been a 50 yard catch and run...and it’s throws like that that keep Allen hovering around 50% completions....if he can fix that in the offseason, sky is the limit with this kid.?

 

Do you ever tire of being wrong? You’re dead wrong on that pass. Any pass that hits a receiver in his hands is by definition accurate. Period, there’s nothing to debate here.

[JaCrispy]

28 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Do you ever tire of being wrong? You’re dead wrong on that pass. Any pass that hits a receiver in his hands is by definition accurate. Period, there’s nothing to debate here.

Sorry, but there is a difference between putting the ball on the receiver and area code accuracy...just because it touches a receiver does not make a pass accurate...otherwise EJ Manuel would have been one of the most accurate passers in NFL history. ?

 

And btw Joe, the graphic from behind the QB actually proves my point of the pass being low and away...so to answer your question, no- I don’t tire of being wrong...because I was right. ?

Edited December 19, 2018 by JaCrispy

[Billsfan1972]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I guess I get to raise my hand for the dunce cap?  I don't think it was well expressed, but if I understand the basic premise, the OP is saying that teams with great QB or even good QB have WR who make the QB look better, by routinely hauling in those high-degree-of-difficulty "catch that can't be made" catches. 

 

I mean, it's not a state secret that Aaron Rodgers completion % fell off 5 percentage points and his ypg dropped about 10% between 2014 and 2015 when he lost Jordy Nelson, showing an exceptional WR makes a difference even for a great QB.

We can't expect to have a roster full of ODB's but I would like to see one, and the rest better than they are now - hauling in say half of those "makeable but tough" throws.

 

Allen also needs to be better than he is now.

 

 

We've written 40,000 books about it?

Not at all what I was saying......  I just want to see receivers catch 50/50 balls, which is as per the name a catch that is made 50% of the time.  I want to see adjustments made on long balls (i.e. Clay vs. Miami), balls that hit them in their hands caught and less bobbles.

 

The last 3 weeks there has been terrible receiver play.

 

As per the top 100 catches....  Doubt they make the top 250.  The point there was that there hasn't been a "wow what a catch" moment all year.  

     

[oldmanfan]

33 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Sorry, but there is a difference between putting the ball on the receiver and area code accuracy...just because it touches a receiver does not make a pass accurate...otherwise EJ Manuel would have been one of the most accurate passers in NFL history. ?

 

And btw Joe, the graphic from behind the QB actually proves my point of the pass being low and away...so to answer your question, no- I don’t tire of being wrong...because I was right. ?

There is a difference between accuracy and precision.  You like so many confuse the two.