Thriftygamer83 Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, CincyBillsFan said: It's a bit wobbly but as you say hit him right in the hands, waits high and he didn't have to break stride. Frustrated with Zay and Clay being the rhyming option to give up on plays. I hope we find a good third or fifth rounder for them. 1
Augie Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Mango said: I mean, comparatively we can get an idea to other teams. Assuming the standard for a catchable ball remains the same, the stat has “some value” outside of frequency. It looks like we are right around average. When they say we have had 13 drops, they lost ALL credibility. That’s just stupid stuff there. Edited December 19, 2018 by Augie 3 1
CincyBillsFan Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Thriftygamer83 said: Frustrated with Zay and Clay being the rhyming option to give up on plays. I hope we find a good third or fifth rounder for them. I'm more frustrated with Clay because I see him adding no value to the passing game. I'm a bit more agnostic about Jones. I could see him suddenly not dropping passes and he is getting open. But most of all what I want to see our receivers starting to catch more of those 50/50 balls which they never seem able to do. 1
row_33 Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, JaCrispy said: The pass to Clay was catchable, but it was, most definitely, not perfect...in fact, in real time, it appeared low and away...but with a little more effort, the catch could have been made. You planning to mumble this bull crap for another 20 years? 1 2
Mango Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said: So do you think he put Clay in a tough position with that throw against the Jets? Or that he put Jones in a tough position with that second down throw over the middle that was dropped? In the NFL a great throw can be a QB getting he ball near the receiver and relying on the receiver to make a play. Every week I see guys making tough catches look routine. My guess is if espn were to pick out the 100 best catches of the year not a single Buffalo Bill catch would make the cut. NOT ONE. It’s a silly take and you’re making a total strawman argument. Of course their are very catchable balls. Dude come on. Of course Clay has made some drops. And Zay. The post says he wants receivers to catch balls that they shouldn’t catch. It’s an effing wild expectation. Just to strawman you back. The NFL is on pace to have over 16,000 passes thrown this regular season. Not making it into the top 100 catches, means that they aren’t in the top 99.5 percentile. 1
Inigo Montoya Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) I'm so glad Benjamin is finally gone. At times this year the only way KB caught the ball was when Allen threw it hard enough for the ball to get stuck in his rib cage. Edited December 19, 2018 by Inigo Montoya 3
MJS Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, Mango said: I am always unsure if people who make this argument know how dumb they sound. So I guess now I’ll ask? What the Bills need is receivers to make catches they wouldn’t be expected to make? And if they had receivers make catches they weren’t expected to make, then our QB would be better? Or maybe, just say...Josh Allen really puts his receivers in tough positions. We can’t expect to have a roster for of ODB’s, but they have to be better than they are now... Horrible take. Watch the freaking Bills games and you'll see terrible drops in all of them. Watch a real offense and you'll see receivers making contested catches, something you NEVER see from these receivers. 1 1
CincyBillsFan Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mango said: It’s a silly take and you’re making a total strawman argument. Of course their are very catchable balls. Dude come on. Of course Clay has made some drops. And Zay. The post says he wants receivers to catch balls that they shouldn’t catch. It’s an effing wild expectation. Just to strawman you back. The NFL is on pace to have over 16,000 passes thrown this regular season. Not making it into the top 100 catches, means that they aren’t in the top 99.5 percentile. I took his post to mean that Bills receivers have to make the catches that SEEM to be impossible. You know the ones that we see being made EVERY week all over the NFL and which are spotlighted on Sports Center. Like I've posted before the ONLY truly great catch I've seen of an Allen pass was DeMarco's catch on that poor wheel route throw Allen made. I just haven't seen a Bills WR or TE make an exceptional NFL caliber catch. Sure there have been a bunch of solid NFL level catches and a couple of very good ones, like the sideline catch by Foster against Miami. But truly spectacular catches? None so far. Just last week the Lions receiver made two such catches and they were game changers. Had we matched the Lions by making two equally spectacular catches we score at least one more TD. And Allen gave his receivers the opportunity to make game changing catches and they failed to take advantage. Oh and for the record that diving drop would have been a borderline spectacular 55 yard catch. That type of catch is routinely made in the NFL and college football and if you watch High School football you will see kids make that catch once in a while.
JaCrispy Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, row_33 said: You planning to mumble this bull crap for another 20 years? Actually, I’m hopeful Allen will be more accurate by then. ? Edited December 19, 2018 by JaCrispy 1
Nick the Greek Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, Mango said: I am always unsure if people who make this argument know how dumb they sound. So I guess now I’ll ask? What the Bills need is receivers to make catches they wouldn’t be expected to make? And if they had receivers make catches they weren’t expected to make, then our QB would be better? Or maybe, just say...Josh Allen really puts his receivers in tough positions. We can’t expect to have a roster for of ODB’s, but they have to be better than they are now... Our expectations for receivers are so pitifully low. Unless the QB throws a PERFECT pass, the receiver is excused to drop the pass. Hell, even if the throw is good, the pass still gets dropped 25% of the time. How about we get a receiver that catches like 80% of the balls thrown his was. They don’t have to be circus catches. Just someone reliable. We don’t have that.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232 Where do they find these stats? I can't believe Zay hasn't alone dropped 13 balls this year. To illustrate how bad the statistic is, ESPN did not call Allen's pass to Clay vs. NYJ over the middle a drop..... Still looking for a replay as he was wide open with room to run and it was a perfect pass and an easy catch..... Heck Zay had two hit him in the hands too that game dropped. It's worth remembering that the criteria for calling a ball a "drop" are far more restrictive than a ball a good NFL WR or TE will manage to adjust to and haul in 2 out of 3 times. 1
BillsSB2020 Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, The Wiz said: Not this best gif but best I could do. We dissect this play around here like the freaking JFK assassination. The life of a Bills fan! 1
formerlyofCtown Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, BlueandRed said: How many did he drop last year? Zay is what he is, hands of stone. Once we get some real talent in here, he should be demoted to the bench or slot at the best. He is like the Peterman of Wide Recievers. ? No Zay has had good starts Peterman has had none.
Warcodered Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, The Wiz said: Not this best gif but best I could do. At that speed it looks like Allen knocked him over with the ball. 4
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: I need a replay it looked as easy a catch as can be. It was about 8 yards past the LOS with him running in stride and no one near him. It was a drop in every sense of the word. Heck it could be a picture in the Dictionary under the word "Drop" from what I remember. Jets at Bills, 6:06 left in 1Q, 2&6 correct? I don't think it was an easy catch. Clay would have had to turn up the burners. OTOH, getting open is what he's paid to do, and it looks to me as though if Allen threw it to where Clay actually was, it would have gone to a guy with a white n green jersey. Here's a set of screen shots from the coach's film just after Allen throws. Ball looks to me as though it's thrown about 2-3 feet wide of what would make an easy catch for Clay. You can see Clay recognize this and lunge for it unsuccessfully. A TE worth his high salary makes that catch, but it's not a picture under the word "drop". 1 2
HappyDays Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 35 minutes ago, MJS said: Watch a real offense and you'll see receivers making contested catches, something you NEVER see from these receivers. I think Croom's catch at the end of the Lions game is the only contested catch of the year. I would remember if there was another one. Foster has made some nice adjustments on the ball downfield, but Croom is the only player so far this year that actually won a catch against a defender in tight coverage. Meanwhile we're debating whether a pass that hit a wide open tight end in the hands was accurate enough. The standards here are crazy. 1
without a drought Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 How many drops do they need to get Allen's completion percentage up to the proper level?
Thurman#1 Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said: That hit Clay tight in the hands. It was as close to a "perfect" pass as you're going to get with that throw or am I missing something? It hit him in his hands, waist high and slightly in front of him. If he catches that ball he doesn't break stride. Maybe I'm just seeing this through my Josh Allen colored glasses but those of you who thought the ball could be better placed I would be curious to know how? Watch the play again and check out in front of Clay. There's nobody there. He drilled it in when he should have put some touch on it and led him more. It was not perfect at all. But certainly catchable. 2
JaCrispy Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Jets at Bills, 6:06 left in 1Q, 2&6 correct? I don't think it was an easy catch. Clay would have had to turn up the burners. OTOH, getting open is what he's paid to do, and it looks to me as though if Allen threw it to where Clay actually was, it would have gone to a guy with a white n green jersey. Here's a set of screen shots from the coach's film just after Allen throws. Ball looks to me as though it's thrown about 2-3 feet wide of what would make an easy catch for Clay. You can see Clay recognize this and lunge for it unsuccessfully. A TE worth his high salary makes that catch, but it's not a picture under the word "drop". Exactly what I thought...low and away and far from a perfect throw... but with a little more effort on Clay’s part, the catch could have been made...great screen shot here.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Mango said: I am always unsure if people who make this argument know how dumb they sound. So I guess now I’ll ask? What the Bills need is receivers to make catches they wouldn’t be expected to make? And if they had receivers make catches they weren’t expected to make, then our QB would be better? Or maybe, just say...Josh Allen really puts his receivers in tough positions. We can’t expect to have a roster for of ODB’s, but they have to be better than they are now... I guess I get to raise my hand for the dunce cap? I don't think it was well expressed, but if I understand the basic premise, the OP is saying that teams with great QB or even good QB have WR who make the QB look better, by routinely hauling in those high-degree-of-difficulty "catch that can't be made" catches. I mean, it's not a state secret that Aaron Rodgers completion % fell off 5 percentage points and his ypg dropped about 10% between 2014 and 2015 when he lost Jordy Nelson, showing an exceptional WR makes a difference even for a great QB. We can't expect to have a roster full of ODB's but I would like to see one, and the rest better than they are now - hauling in say half of those "makeable but tough" throws. Allen also needs to be better than he is now. 26 minutes ago, BillsSB2020 said: We dissect this play around here like the freaking JFK assassination. The life of a Bills fan! We've written 40,000 books about it?
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