Royale with Cheese Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 I’m thinking someone needs a new hobby other than creating 2 usernames to argue against Allen... 1
WhyteDwarf Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Doc said: I don’t know. How do you feel knowing that you admitted that there were 4 drops? Whoa whoa whoa... I feel that with better talent at WR the drops should decrease, but they will never go away, and whatever that drop differential is, it's not enough to take a 52% passer to ~65% passer. Edited December 19, 2018 by WhyteDwarf 1
billsfan1959 Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I’m thinking someone needs a new hobby other than creating 2 usernames to argue against Allen... I actually responded once to him in this thread and immediately felt the shame and regret I typically feel whenever I do something I know I shouldn't do...
WideNine Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 I think the whole completion % thing has been beat to death, but I am pretty sure 26CB posted this clip at some point where Trent Dilfer talks about evaluating Allen. He also emphatically shares his disdain for the completion % stat when incorrectly used as a gauge for accuracy - for what it is worth from someone who played the game: 2
Doc Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, WhyteDwarf said: I feel that with better talent at WR the drops should decrease, but they will never go away, and whatever that drop differential is, it's not enough to take a 52% passer to ~65% passer. Well he had 4 dropped passes in that game (at least) so he was a 65.4% passer. Even if you say that 1 drop is acceptable, he's at 61.5%. Maybe some of the other passes get hauled-in with better receivers. I don't know. The point is he's not exactly working with great talent around him and blocking for him. So give him maybe until he has more talent around him and a year's worth of games under his belt. Edited December 19, 2018 by Doc
gjv001 Posted December 19, 2018 Posted December 19, 2018 14 hours ago, inaugural balls said: Wrong, wrong, wrong. If his comp % isn't 70% he's a failed pick. For it is this % that rules all. Like I said, go back to watching professional bowling.
RememberTheRockpile Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 On 12/18/2018 at 7:05 AM, WhyteDwarf said: Another one who didn't take physics in school. Thanks for raising your hand. Keep trolling on sparky.
Juice_32 Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 10 hours ago, WhyteDwarf said: Oh sure, I see some improvement, but he's still at 50%. If he's still at 50% next year at this time, that is a problem no? What if he's at 50% next year and we're 10-4? 1
stevestojan Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 My adjusted BAC is .02 since the guy sitting next to me at the bar has been drinking Long Islands. 1 1
Tcali Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 If people think that drafting WR talent or getting FA WR talent is going to completely solve Allen's QBing issues then they are being Billslike naive. Yes great WRs will help..But what really will help is if he throws more than 50% of his passes accurately. WRs--yes the great ones too--enjoy playing with a QB who they can rely on to consistently throw nice accurate catchable passes.. When its a 50/50m proposition like with Josh Allen---then its tough for the WRs to feel relaxed since they never know what kind of a pass they are gonna have to deal with or if they will even be noticed being wide open. I am optimistic that JA will keep improving. But to throw the blame on poor WRing alone is just not smart. Allen does great things(running) and makes some great throws....But he whiffs badly on some wide open receivers in critical times. Just because people mention his weaknesses doesnt make them haters.Its called be realistic. Its not all or even predominantly the fault of his WRs or O line.
thebandit27 Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Tcali said: If people think that drafting WR talent or getting FA WR talent is going to completely solve Allen's QBing issues then they are being Billslike naive. Yes great WRs will help..But what really will help is if he throws more than 50% of his passes accurately. WRs--yes the great ones too--enjoy playing with a QB who they can rely on to consistently throw nice accurate catchable passes.. When its a 50/50m proposition like with Josh Allen---then its tough for the WRs to feel relaxed since they never know what kind of a pass they are gonna have to deal with or if they will even be noticed being wide open. I am optimistic that JA will keep improving. But to throw the blame on poor WRing alone is just not smart. Allen does great things(running) and makes some great throws....But he whiffs badly on some wide open receivers in critical times. Just because people mention his weaknesses doesnt make them haters.Its called be realistic. Its not all or even predominantly the fault of his WRs or O line. Saying that he only throws half his passes accurately is not being realistic; its hyperbole.
John from Riverside Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 On 12/17/2018 at 9:55 AM, WhyteDwarf said: Yeah, that the rest of the team being trash is a crutch IMO. What would change things is a QB that wins games, then the "discussion" could progress. Take a lap
oldmanfan Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Saying that he only throws half his passes accurately is not being realistic; its hyperbole. 13 minutes ago, Tcali said: If people think that drafting WR talent or getting FA WR talent is going to completely solve Allen's QBing issues then they are being Billslike naive. Yes great WRs will help..But what really will help is if he throws more than 50% of his passes accurately. WRs--yes the great ones too--enjoy playing with a QB who they can rely on to consistently throw nice accurate catchable passes.. When its a 50/50m proposition like with Josh Allen---then its tough for the WRs to feel relaxed since they never know what kind of a pass they are gonna have to deal with or if they will even be noticed being wide open. I am optimistic that JA will keep improving. But to throw the blame on poor WRing alone is just not smart. Allen does great things(running) and makes some great throws....But he whiffs badly on some wide open receivers in critical times. Just because people mention his weaknesses doesnt make them haters.Its called be realistic. Its not all or even predominantly the fault of his WRs or O line. Another guy conflating accuracy with completions. Another guy who has no idea what accuracy really is and how it's actually measured. Allen has growth to do and things to work in. But when are these false analyses going to stop? 2
stinky finger Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 10 hours ago, gjv001 said: Like I said, go back to watching professional bowling. Hi - allow me to introduce myself. I'm sarcastic. 12 hours ago, WideNine said: I think the whole completion % thing has been beat to death, but I am pretty sure 26CB posted this clip at some point where Trent Dilfer talks about evaluating Allen. He also emphatically shares his disdain for the completion % stat when incorrectly used as a gauge for accuracy - for what it is worth from someone who played the game: This video gets me all chilly...
Mr. WEO Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 It's just ben announced that, adjusted for drops, throwaways and passes otherwise not caught, the league average adjusted completion percentage now = 100%
Patrick Duffy Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: It's just ben announced that, adjusted for drops, throwaways and passes otherwise not caught, the league average adjusted completion percentage now = 100% Was just about to post this. Saw it at the bottom of the screen on ESPN.
Thurman#1 Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) On 12/18/2018 at 2:16 AM, Rico said: The only stat that matters. Acceptable for a rookie QB. It doesn't apply to a rookie QB. Or any other QB. It's a team stat. How well the MLB plays or the field goal kicker kicks or the KR breaks a long return or fumbles has nothing to do with how well the QB is playing. It really is that simple. Wins are a team stat. Which is why the official name of the abbreviated "QB Record" is actually "Team record in games started by this QB (Regular season)". Coloring and italics mine, of course. If you want to know how well the QB is playing, you look at how well the QB is playing. The statistical measures are things like completion percentage, YPA, passer rating, attempts, completions, yards, TDs, INTs, sacks, running yards, and I'm sure you can think of a ton more. And no, they don't tell the whole story, but they're the best measure we have short of in-depth game film analysis of all his plays. Edited December 20, 2018 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 On 12/19/2018 at 7:23 AM, HappyDays said: I will take any WR in the league that is #4 or better on their roster over Zay Jones. If I'm remembering what I read correctly, Zay had 6 targets on Sunday and only caught 1 pass. He is useless. He is our #2 receiver and he is completely useless. McKenzie and Foster ARE being elevated by Allen, more than I think we give him credit for. No one in the league can elevate Zay, except for some timely pass interference calls. Targets includes stuff like being the guy in the neighborhood where the QB throws it away, not to mention just bad throws that go ten feet over his head. It's not a good measure of how well a receiver is doing, partly for the reasons above and partly because it's half on the QB. 1st Q 1:06 Allen throws to Zay's knees, catch, 11 yards 1st Q 00:26 Allen with a terrible throw, should never have been thrown and was underthrown besides, is intercepted on the sidelines as a defender undercuts the route four yards in front of Zay, but luckily he is ruled out of bounds on a call that was not clear at all. 2nd Q 00:13 Long bomb, 52 yards past LOS, on the left side, with Allen taking a long shot near the end of the half. The CB, Slay, is in front of Jones on the inside, preventing Jones from getting past. Jones steps on Slay's foot and they both lose their balance. Slay starts to fall but leans back to knock it away. Jones couldn't leap or fight well after stepping on the foot. The throw was a bit inside, as Slay had inside leverage. 3rd Q 8:22 Zay has half a step but isn't wide open. The safety is coming over but won't get there in time, as Jones is running towards the pylon. Allen overthrows him about 30 yards downfield. 4th Q 3:54 Zay coming over the middle sixteen yards deep. Ball is high, Zay leaps. Tough ball, thrown hard and high but though it was far from an easy catch (and it could have been, the CB was behind and nobody was anywhere in front of Jones, it could have been thrown with touch) it was catchable. 4th 13:47 A 17 yard comeback on the right near the sideline. Good throw, knocked away. Slay was behind Jones as Jones stopped and grabbed Jones, stopping him from coming back towards the ball. Should've been a penalty, IMHO. So Zay got his hands on two of them. Not six. Zay looks - to me - like a young guy showing improvement and promise but hiccups. Much like Allen, really. Both of them need to improve, both of them have a chance to do so with time.
KW95 - JA17 Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 Between an adjusted stat and this so called QB pressure stat, its amazing that more bills didn't make it to the ProBowl.
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