Buffalo picked the right Josh

[SCBills]

18 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said:

I wasn't happy with the draft, I wanted Darnold.  I was pissed when the Jets traded up past the Bills.

 

Rosen has always looked like a "point the finger at someone else" kinda guy.

 

Would you still rather have Darnold?  Not being antagonistic, im truly interested.   I think both Allen and Darnold have flashed a ton of potential, especially when you look at the talent they are surrounded with. 

 

I'd take Allen over Darnold (and Baker) tbh.  Allen has shown his floor isn't as low as some worried and his potential is legitimately "best QB in the NFL" level potential..  I don't think Darnold has that potential, even though I think he'll be a good one. 

 

This QB class looks like it could be one of the great ones if Allen/Baker/Darnold keep progressing.  Rosen, id be worried about if I was Arizona, and I'm not sure what to make of Lamar Jackson, but if he can stay healthy, more power to him.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

18 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Dude this is 4 weeks too late. Nobody's brought up Rosen as the better pick in forever.

 

I don't want to measure Allen by how much a bust Rosen might look. By this point I just want the right Josh to be good by the right Josh's standards.

That fact of nobody having brought up Rosen as the better pick in some time is noteworthy in and of itself though, right? Wasn't he the most "pro-ready" of the entire class? Shows just how much any of us could get up there and spout hot air before the draft also, and have just as much chance of being right, as the gifted analysts who are paid handsomely to do so...

[Jay_Fixit]

18 hours ago, Jasovon said:

I had Rosen as my top guy and Allen as my second. Rosen looks awful, yes he has no talent around him but Allen makes guys around him better.

Save for his patchwork o-line (that might even be a draw) Rosen has more talent around him.

 

I wish Allen had a Larry Fitzgerald and David Johnson.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

If they keep Wilks I think Rosen is destined to fail. The Cardinals face a filled buyers market with far better situations for WR and OL FA's to sign with including Buffalo. They need to find an incredibly hot and progressive name to save this ship before the kid is killed.

 

Sadly I agree and sadly I expect they will at least start 2019 with Wilkes as Head Coach. He is totally, utterly, inescapably, out of his depth. He should be fired.

[WhyteDwarf]

10 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Would you still rather have Darnold?  Not being antagonistic, im truly interested.   I think both Allen and Darnold have flashed a ton of potential, especially when you look at the talent they are surrounded with. 

 

I'd take Allen over Darnold (and Baker) tbh.  Allen has shown his floor isn't as low as some worried and his potential is legitimately "best QB in the NFL" level potential..  I don't think Darnold has that potential, even though I think he'll be a good one. 

 

This QB class looks like it could be one of the great ones if Allen/Baker/Darnold keep progressing.  Rosen, id be worried about if I was Arizona, and I'm not sure what to make of Lamar Jackson, but if he can stay healthy, more power to him.

 

I think we were both fooled and Mayfield was the right pick.  Browns actually picked the right guy this time, wow.  I just don't see how Allen has "best QB in the NFL potential" with his completion percentage.

 

I'm not sure as far as picking between Darnold and Allen at this point, neither has done enough to distance themselves from one the other.

Edited December 17, 2018 by WhyteDwarf

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sadly I agree and sadly I expect they will at least start 2019 with Wilkes as Head Coach. He is totally, utterly, inescapably, out of his depth. He should be fired.

 

I can almost hear the violins playing.

 

I shed no tears over Josh Rosen.

 

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I can almost hear the violins playing.

 

I shed no tears over Josh Rosen.

 

We should have drafted Nick Mullens. He’s the best or second best rookie QB.

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, WhyteDwarf said:

 

I think we were both fooled and Mayfield was the right pick.  Browns actually picked the right guy this time, wow.  I just don't see how Allen has "best QB in the NFL potential" with his completion percentage.

 

I'm not sure as far as picking between Darnold and Allen at this point, neither has done enough to distance themselves from one another.

 

I get the whole "completion percentage" thing, but that can easily be fixed by A) WR's catching passes they should catch and B) Allen learning to check down. 

 

Maybe he won't always be pinpoint in his accuracy but his arm talent and running ability more than makes up for that, imo. 

 

Baker is legit, but I'd like to see Allen & Darnold with weapons too.

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by SCBills

[Bing Bong]

37 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

That fact of nobody having brought up Rosen as the better pick in some time is noteworthy in and of itself though, right? Wasn't he the most "pro-ready" of the entire class? Shows just how much any of us could get up there and spout hot air before the draft also, and have just as much chance of being right, as the gifted analysts who are paid handsomely to do so...

Everybody keeps replying to my post saying "but that's kind of the point isn't it? Allen is better than Rosen and proved draft pundits wrong etc. etc. etc."

 

Yes! That is the point! That's why I posted it. I haven't cared about Rosen in a long time. It's nice that he's looking better than the other option we could have picked but I guess I'm not one to want to revisit the draft for the umpteenth time. Post Rosen boxscores every game etc. I thought it was apparent we got the right Josh and have mostly been on the same page with that for a LONG TIME. There's still room for improvement, the draft doesn't matter anymore (but we looked like we nailed it), Rosen sucking right now has no bearing on Allen improving. 

 

Then again I was never vested in the QB picks since I didn't know anything about the guys, other than liking Baker, in the first place. I just let it roll. Hardly participated in the nasty fights it seems like we got into post draft. So I'm not one to revisit draft disappointment or excitement because I was ambivalent until the rooks took the field:

 

Rosen is sucking so bad that Allen could be a lot worse and we'd still have the "right Josh". That's sort of my point. I don't want the bar to be as low as the (what looks like to be a) bust in Rosen we didn't pick.

Edited December 17, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[BarleyNY]

46 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

Are you saying Larry Fitzgerald isn't better than the WR we have on our roster? Johnson can't do ***** behind the Cards OL? He has 843 yards rushing, 7 TD, 408 catches for another 2 TD. Chrisitan Kirk was the leading WR for the Cards before being injured and being lost for the season, saying he ain't that good as a rookie had 43 rec, 590 yards and 3 TD, Saying "He aint that good" seems like you do zero research.

 

The Cards are last in the NFL in total rushing yards and YPC.  Larry Fitzgerald is 35.  The Cards have had a ton of injuries on their OL as well. Seems like your research wasn’t quite complete either.  I’m not getting into the Josh v. Josh thing right now because I haven’t watched Rosen and it’s pointless anyway.

 

Allen has impressed me with his athleticism and running ability as well as occasionally as a passer.  He’s been lacking as a pocket QB and passer too often though. He’s young and very raw so that’s not a surprise.  The potential certainly is there but he’s going to have to prove himself before I anoint him a FQB.  That’s going to take time (if it happens at all) so I’m not getting ahead of that process.  Also I’m not going to compare the two Joshs unless we’re talking about the Bills’ decision making.  Rosen really doesn’t matter at all where rating Allen is concerned except in that context.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Everybody keeps replying to my post saying "but that's kind of the point isn't it? Allen is better than Rosen and proved draft pundits wrong etc. etc. etc."

 

Yes! That is the point! That's why I posted it. I haven't cared about Rosen in a long time. It's nice that he's looking better than the other option we could have picked but I guess I'm not one to want to revisit the draft for the umpteenth time. Post Rosen boxscores every game etc. I thought it was apparent we got the right Josh and have mostly been on the same page with that for a LONG TIME. There's still room for improvement, the draft doesn't matter anymore (but we looked like we nailed it), Rosen sucking right now has no bearing on Allen improving. 

 

Then again I was never vested in the QB picks since I didn't know anything about the guys, other than liking Baker, in the first place. I just let it roll. Hardly participated in the nasty fights it seems like we got into post draft. So I'm not one to revisit draft disappointment or excitement because I was ambivalent until the rooks took the field:

 

Rosen is sucking so bad that Allen could be a lot worse and we'd still have the "right Josh". That's sort of my point. I don't want the bar to be as low as the (what looks like to be a) bust in Rosen we didn't pick.

Well said...but in other news while we're on the topic of letting negative things go, when is your current avatar title going to die a natural (or unnatural for that matter) death? Who wants to be continually reminded about that game almost 2 seasons ago now, and IIRC, you were thinking of doing that anyway if the Bills beat the Vikes earlier this year!  But do your thing man, I aint hating or anything, lol 

[BuffaloHokie13]

8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

We should have drafted Nick Mullens. He’s the best or second best rookie QB.

Not a rookie though.

[CincyBillsFan]

The continued obsession with Allen's completion percentage appears to be the last refuge of the anti-Allen brigade.  Though I've noted that it's subtly changed from "Allen is inaccurate" to "Allen's completion % is still at 50%".   Because anyone watching the games since he came back from injury show that Allen is clearly accurate enough on his throws. 

 

It's fair to say that those of us who had some concern about Allen's accuracy in making ALL of the NFL throws are resting easier now because he has demonstrated that he can make all the throws.  The issue now is how do we get to the point where the OFFENSE regularly completes 60% of its passes?  Now some of this is on Allen who as a rookie is still not entirely comfortable with taking the easy 6 yard pass play when there's a more difficult 15 yard completion to make.  But this will come with game reps and we've already seen signs that Allen is learning the value of "cheap passing" yards.  Once we have a couple more threats that can turn 5 yard dump offs into 20 yard gains I suspect he'll throw even more of these passes and you'll quickly see his % completion jump up to 60 - 65%!

 

But the key point here is that the 50% completion "issue" is no longer only Allen's problem.  It is a team offensive problem that can be fixed with a couple of upgrades on the line and in the skill positions.  The QB is no longer the main problem here. 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sadly I agree and sadly I expect they will at least start 2019 with Wilkes as Head Coach. He is totally, utterly, inescapably, out of his depth. He should be fired.

"With 7:04 left in a game few people were paying attention to on Sunday, the Cardinals pulled struggling rookie Josh Rosen in favor of veteran journeyman Mike Glennon. At that point the Falcons had outscored the Cardinals 40-7, outgained them 428-148 and outclassed them in every way. And as you might expect, that’ll lead to bigger questions in Arizona over the next two weeks. Here’s what I know: Arizona has looked ahead already to making changes to the offensive staff to try to spark Rosen’s development, in a way that neither coordinator Byron Leftwich nor his predecessor, Mike McCoy, could. Here’s what I think: Based on the churn of the NFL rumor mill, changes might include the head coach, Steve Wilks. Sending a coach packing after a single year is tough. But seven of the Cardinals’ 11 losses have come by double-digits, and a garbage-time touchdown drive engineered by Glennon was the only thing that saved Arizona from suffering its fourth 30-point loss of the year."

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/17/nfl-playoff-scenarios-browns-baker-mayfield-ravens-lamar-jackson-eagles-nick-foles-steelers-patriots

 

[SCBills]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The continued obsession with Allen's completion percentage appears to be the last refuge of the anti-Allen brigade.  Though I've noted that it's subtly changed from "Allen is inaccurate" to "Allen's completion % is still at 50%".   Because anyone watching the games since he came back from injury show that Allen is clearly accurate enough on his throws. 

 

It's fair to say that those of us who had some concern about Allen's accuracy in making ALL of the NFL throws are resting easier now because he has demonstrated that he can make all the throws.  The issue now is how do we get to the point where the OFFENSE regularly completes 60% of its passes?  Now some of this is on Allen who as a rookie is still not entirely comfortable with taking the easy 6 yard pass play when there's a more difficult 15 yard completion to make.  But this will come with game reps and we've already seen signs that Allen is learning the value of "cheap passing" yards.  Once we have a couple more threats that can turn 5 yard dump offs into 20 yard gains I suspect he'll throw even more of these passes and you'll quickly see his % completion jump up to 60 - 65%!

 

But the key point here is that the 50% completion "issue" is no longer only Allen's problem.  It is a team offensive problem that can be fixed with a couple of upgrades on the line and in the skill positions.  The QB is no longer the main problem here. 

 

 

 

It struck me how often Goff took the check down last night - He must've had 70-80 yards passing on check downs, all easy completions.  I then thought about how Allen would probably stay looking to push the ball down field and then miss the check down window, having to scramble and/or make a tougher throw.

[Bing Bong]

17 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Well said...but in other news while we're on the topic of letting negative things go, when is your current avatar title going to die a natural (or unnatural for that matter) death? Who wants to be continually reminded about that game almost 2 seasons ago now, and IIRC, you were thinking of doing that anyway if the Bills beat the Vikes earlier this year!  But do your thing man, I aint hating or anything, lol 

lol yeah my name avatar combo of Ritchie and Peterman is just being a bummer by this point.

 

But my whole identity was to combat the Savior Peterman avatars I don't know who I am supposed to be anymore. I'm coming up with something

 

However I'm definitely voiding the Vikings game promise to change to ZimmerLostToPSBills since the premise was Vikings were sitting Dalvin Cook because he was treating us like a bye week when in fact Dalvin Cook had been legitimately injured from that game on.. and Zimmer is just dumb with his running game anyway. I AIN'T CHANGING TO THAT. I'll come up with something that's less of a bummer.

Edited December 17, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

It struck me how often Goff took the check down last night - He must've had 70-80 yards passing on check downs, all easy completions.  I then thought about how Allen would probably stay looking to push the ball down field and then miss the check down window, having to scramble and/or make a tougher throw.

 

Great point about last nights game and Goff.  This is typical of his game and it actually opens up his downfield strikes.  Of course given the guys he's checking the ball down to he's learned that those plays can be just as big as a laser fired 25 yards down the field.  The good news for me is that I would rather have a rookie QB who has the attitude of "screw the 5 yard pass, I want those 20 yard passes".  That's not an attitude easily taught by the time a QB reaches the NFL.  It's a lot easier to teach a young QB the value of checking down then it is to teach them to aggressively attack a secondary down the field. 

[nedboy7]

16 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

The only reason last years playoff season was in any way good was that it ended a ridiculously long 18 year playoff drought.  The fact that it took a miracle play by Andy Dalton to put the BIlls into the playoffs and then the lackluster performance by the Bills in the playoffs sort of lessened the impact if this achievement for me.  

 

After we took Allen at QB and let Tyrod go the most critical question of this season was whether Allen was the guy.  I would submit that while it's not a done deal yet he does appear to be that elusive franchise QB we've been looking for since the days of Kelly.  That's why this season is much more exciting for me then last season was. 

 

Yeah. I totally disagree.  And while I Iike Allen, the way the team was run this year is pretty awful.  

Edited December 17, 2018 by nedboy7

[BringBackOrton]

23 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Not a rookie though.

Foiled again.

[nedboy7]

16 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

It is interesting though that the results and stat lines, nature of games and limited offense are all pretty much similar between 2017 and 2018 QBs.

 

I guess what gets folks hyped is the assumption that things are just meant to develop greater.

 

we shall see.

 

It seems the last 15 years have created a weird dynamic about the QB for Bills fans. And people seem to think having an above avg QB means playoffs every year which clearly is not the case in the NFL.   Fans didn’t seem to enjoy last year cause the QB wasn’t “franchise”.  Allen is far from a top QB. It’s possible he gets there.