Nanker Posted December 16, 2018 Posted December 16, 2018 We keep hearing about giving everyone Medicare. Well guess what folks, it ain't "free", and they only have individual plans - i.e., NO FAMILY plans. https://www.medicare.gov/your-medicare-costs/part-a-costs Most retirees don't pay Medicare Part A premiums because they worked more than 30 quarters and paid into the system. Pretty much ANY person who hasn't paid in for that amount of time has to pay Medicare Part A premiums as outlined below. Also, there are no "family" plans in Medicare. So ever person would have to have their own account and pay their monthly premiums. That would be really something for a family of six. Part A covers: Inpatient care in a hospital Skilled nursing facility care Inpatient care in a skilled nursing facility (not custodial or long-term care) Hospice care Home health care Part A premiums If you buy Part A, you'll pay up to $422 each month in 2018 ($437 in 2019). If you paid Medicare taxes for less than 30 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $422 ($437 in 2019). If you paid Medicare taxes for 30-39 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $237 ($240 in 2019). In most cases, if you choose to buy Part A, you must also: Have Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) Pay monthly premiums for both Part A and Part B Part A At a Glance: Part A premium Most people don't pay a monthly premium for Part A (sometimes called "premium-free Part A"). If you buy Part A, you'll pay up to $422 each month. If you paid Medicare taxes for less than 30 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $422. If you paid Medicare taxes for 30-39 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $232. Part A hospital inpatient deductible and coinsurance You pay: $1,340 deductible for each benefit period Days 1-60: $0 coinsurance for each benefit period Days 61-90: $335 coinsurance per day of each benefit period Days 91 and beyond: $670 coinsurance per each "lifetime reserve day" after day 90 for each benefit period (up to 60 days over your lifetime) Beyond lifetime reserve days: all costs Now Part B! It's not "FREE" either folks. What Part B Covers: Medically necessary services: Services or supplies that are needed to diagnose or treat your medical condition and that meet accepted standards of medical practice. Preventive services: Health care to prevent illness (like the flu) or detect it at an early stage, when treatment is most likely to work best. You pay nothing for most preventive services if you get the services from a health care provider who accepts assignment. Part B covers things like: Clinical research Ambulance services Durable medical equipment (DME) Mental health Inpatient Outpatient Partial hospitalization Getting a second opinion before surgery Limited outpatient prescription drugs What your Medicare Part B costs - it's income adjusted folks... (Medicare calls it Income Related Monthly Adjustment Amount - IRMAA) If your yearly income in 2016 (for what you pay in 2018) was You pay each month (in 2018) File individual tax return File joint tax return File married & separate tax return $85,000 or less $170,000 or less $85,000 or less $134 above $85,000 up to $107,000 above $170,000 up to $214,000 Not applicable $187.50 above $107,000 up to $133,500 above $214,000 up to $267,000 Not applicable $267.90 above $133,500 up to $160,000 above $267,000 up to $320,000 Not applicable $348.30 above $160,000 above $320,000 above $85,000 $428.60 Part B Deductibles: Part B deductible and coinsurance $183 per year. After your deductible is met, you typically pay 20% of the Medicare-approved amount for most doctor services (including most doctor services while you're a hospital inpatient), outpatient therapy, and durable medical equipment (dme) Part D is optional for additional drug coverage. Follow the link to see what Medicare Part D can cost YOU! If your filing status and yearly income in 2016 was File individual tax return File joint tax return File married & separate tax return You pay each month (in 2018) $85,000 or less $170,000 or less $85,000 or less your plan premium above $85,000 up to $107,000 above $170,000 up to $214,000 not applicable $13.00 + your plan premium above $107,000 up to $133,500 above $214,000 up to $267,000 not applicable $33.60 + your plan premium above $133,500 up to $160,000 above $267,000 up to $320,000 not applicable $54.20 + your plan premium above $160,000 above $320,000 above $85,000 $74.80 + your plan premium So each person wanting Medicare would have to pay: Part A $422 per month Part B $134 per month - up to $428.60 per month based on household earnings Part D $ 70 per month (roughly) based on what plan you get and again - how much you earn because like Medicare Part B it has IRMAAs. But wait! There's MORE! Medicare doesn't cover everything. So most people buy Medicare Supplemental insurance for Parts A and B. There are lots of those plans and based on where you live they cost around $175 per month. So if you want Medicare for all - these are approximately what it'll cost each and every person: From $796 per month up to $1,165.40 5 7
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 16, 2018 Posted December 16, 2018 Well done. I made a killing selling medicare supplements with this kind of presentation. My assumption would be most people would end up taking Med Advantage, which in actuality is no better than most private health plans anyway.
Cinga Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 so all those taxes we paid into Medicare all these years means nothing huh? figures......
keepthefaith Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 11 hours ago, Nanker said: We keep hearing about giving everyone Medicare. Well guess what folks, it ain't "free", and they only have individual plans - i.e., NO FAMILY plans. https://www.medicare.gov/your-medicare-costs/part-a-costs Most retirees don't pay Medicare Part A premiums because they worked more than 30 quarters and paid into the system. Pretty much ANY person who hasn't paid in for that amount of time has to pay Medicare Part A premiums as outlined below. Also, there are no "family" plans in Medicare. So ever person would have to have their own account and pay their monthly premiums. That would be really something for a family of six. Part A covers: Inpatient care in a hospital Skilled nursing facility care Inpatient care in a skilled nursing facility (not custodial or long-term care) Hospice care Home health care Part A premiums If you buy Part A, you'll pay up to $422 each month in 2018 ($437 in 2019). If you paid Medicare taxes for less than 30 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $422 ($437 in 2019). If you paid Medicare taxes for 30-39 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $237 ($240 in 2019). In most cases, if you choose to buy Part A, you must also: Have Medicare Part B (Medical Insurance) Pay monthly premiums for both Part A and Part B Part A At a Glance: Part A premium Most people don't pay a monthly premium for Part A (sometimes called "premium-free Part A"). If you buy Part A, you'll pay up to $422 each month. If you paid Medicare taxes for less than 30 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $422. If you paid Medicare taxes for 30-39 quarters, the standard Part A premium is $232. Part A hospital inpatient deductible and coinsurance You pay: $1,340 deductible for each benefit period Days 1-60: $0 coinsurance for each benefit period Days 61-90: $335 coinsurance per day of each benefit period Days 91 and beyond: $670 coinsurance per each "lifetime reserve day" after day 90 for each benefit period (up to 60 days over your lifetime) Beyond lifetime reserve days: all costs Now Part B! It's not "FREE" either folks. What Part B Covers: Medically necessary services: Services or supplies that are needed to diagnose or treat your medical condition and that meet accepted standards of medical practice. Preventive services: Health care to prevent illness (like the flu) or detect it at an early stage, when treatment is most likely to work best. You pay nothing for most preventive services if you get the services from a health care provider who accepts assignment. Part B covers things like: Clinical research Ambulance services Durable medical equipment (DME) Mental health Inpatient Outpatient Partial hospitalization Getting a second opinion before surgery Limited outpatient prescription drugs What your Medicare Part B costs - it's income adjusted folks... (Medicare calls it Income Related Monthly Adjustment Amount - IRMAA) If your yearly income in 2016 (for what you pay in 2018) was You pay each month (in 2018) File individual tax return File joint tax return File married & separate tax return $85,000 or less $170,000 or less $85,000 or less $134 above $85,000 up to $107,000 above $170,000 up to $214,000 Not applicable $187.50 above $107,000 up to $133,500 above $214,000 up to $267,000 Not applicable $267.90 above $133,500 up to $160,000 above $267,000 up to $320,000 Not applicable $348.30 above $160,000 above $320,000 above $85,000 $428.60 Part B Deductibles: Part B deductible and coinsurance $183 per year. After your deductible is met, you typically pay 20% of the Medicare-approved amount for most doctor services (including most doctor services while you're a hospital inpatient), outpatient therapy, and durable medical equipment (dme) Part D is optional for additional drug coverage. Follow the link to see what Medicare Part D can cost YOU! If your filing status and yearly income in 2016 was File individual tax return File joint tax return File married & separate tax return You pay each month (in 2018) $85,000 or less $170,000 or less $85,000 or less your plan premium above $85,000 up to $107,000 above $170,000 up to $214,000 not applicable $13.00 + your plan premium above $107,000 up to $133,500 above $214,000 up to $267,000 not applicable $33.60 + your plan premium above $133,500 up to $160,000 above $267,000 up to $320,000 not applicable $54.20 + your plan premium above $160,000 above $320,000 above $85,000 $74.80 + your plan premium So each person wanting Medicare would have to pay: Part A $422 per month Part B $134 per month - up to $428.60 per month based on household earnings Part D $ 70 per month (roughly) based on what plan you get and again - how much you earn because like Medicare Part B it has IRMAAs. But wait! There's MORE! Medicare doesn't cover everything. So most people buy Medicare Supplemental insurance for Parts A and B. There are lots of those plans and based on where you live they cost around $175 per month. So if you want Medicare for all - these are approximately what it'll cost each and every person: From $796 per month up to $1,165.40 Heckuva good post. As for paying for it for all, rich people and evil rich corporations will pay for much of it. The rest will simply be funded with a larger deficit. Problem solved. 1
unbillievable Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 Those costs are for people that worked less than 10 years by the time they are 65 years old?
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this website, or anywhere really. @Nanker 1 1
The_Dude Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 As a small business owner I’ll tell ya the hardest part about what I do, other than the payroll taxes every month, is finding affordable insurance. It’s the bane of my existance. 1
Nanker Posted December 17, 2018 Author Posted December 17, 2018 11 hours ago, unbillievable said: Those costs are for people that worked less than 10 years by the time they are 65 years old? No. Those costs are for EVERYONE. If you worked for 30 quarters, i.e., 7.5 years and paid into Medicare through your payroll taxes, when you reach retirement age (that's a moving goalpost), you are not charged a Medicare Part A premium. If you haven't worked that long - you have to pay the Medicare Part A premiums. There are some exceptions, e.g., if you're on kidney dialysis, or deemed disabled, the premiums are waived. However, EVERYONE (as far as I know) is charged Medicare Part B and Part D premiums, and the amount of those premiums are tiered according to your earnings. ON TOP of that is your Supplemental insurances - for Medicare Part B and Part D. Again, Medicare is not "free" by a long shot.
PearlHowardman Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 Ha! It's not like they were first NOR last to the table.
Thurmal34 Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) Thankfully there are enough random billions to throw at soybean farmers affected by their sudden inability to sell their product to the highest bidder. Keep telling us how backward socialism is. How many won’t get the fact that the reason our farmers cNt compete globally is the local idiot?0 Edited December 31, 2018 by Thurmal34
row_33 Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Thurmal34 said: Thankfully there are enough random billions to throw at soybean farmers affected by their sudden inability to sell their product to the highest bidder. Keep telling us how backward socialism is. How many won’t get the fact that the reason our farmers cNt compete globally is the local idiot?0 You should be pushing for a single payer system with people opting to buy into private plans if they wish, and allocation of private clinics to public care where optimal
Thurmal34 Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 28 minutes ago, row_33 said: You should be pushing for a single payer system with people opting to buy into private plans if they wish, and allocation of private clinics to public care where optimal To me it seems like I should be advocating for people to not die. just feels like the right thing to do.
3rdnlng Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 5 hours ago, Thurmal34 said: Thankfully there are enough random billions to throw at soybean farmers affected by their sudden inability to sell their product to the highest bidder. Keep telling us how backward socialism is. How many won’t get the fact that the reason our farmers cNt compete globally is the local idiot?0 Drunk and feeble minded with no ability to discern anything more complicated than the next shot and a beer.
Tiberius Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 How much more expensive is it than what we have to pay now for health insurance?
3rdnlng Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Tiberius said: How much more expensive is it than what we have to pay now for health insurance? Here's a link for you:
billsfan89 Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 The USA spends 17.8% of its GDP on healthcare, the next closest developed nation spends Switzerland spends 12.4% most developed nations with a form of single payer healthcare spend about 10-11% of GDP on healthcare. Healthcare is not a commodity, you aren't always in a position to shop around for it and it isn't an elastic commodity. I would rather employers pay a payroll tax (In place of what they pay for medical insurance now) so that everyone has a basic medicare plan than to have an insanely complicated system that is inefficient (Imagine calling the police and needing private police insurance and calling the right police in your police network to avoid ending up with a 10k bill) and just costs more money without providing better outcomes. I know there is an orthodoxy for a lot of people here that the government sucks and private industry is better at everything but yet anytime I travel to other nations in the developed world they seem to like their healthcare system and outright fear and laugh at the cost and complexity of the US healthcare system. I also think our privatized healthcare system is bad for someone wanting to start their own business. Small businesses and start ups have to put their own and their families health on the line just to be able to get off the ground. That's a horrible and perverse incentive. Our healthcare system also makes it almost impossible for you to freelance or go into business for yourself and maintain good coverage. 6 hours ago, Tiberius said: How much more expensive is it than what we have to pay now for health insurance? You see the government sucks at everything. Just ignore real world evidence that single payer systems produce similar or better outcomes for less money. 1 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: The USA spends 17.8% of its GDP on healthcare, the next closest developed nation spends Switzerland spends 12.4% most developed nations with a form of single payer healthcare spend about 10-11% of GDP on healthcare. Healthcare is not a commodity, you aren't always in a position to shop around for it and it isn't an elastic commodity. I would rather employers pay a payroll tax (In place of what they pay for medical insurance now) so that everyone has a basic medicare plan than to have an insanely complicated system that is inefficient (Imagine calling the police and needing private police insurance and calling the right police in your police network to avoid ending up with a 10k bill) and just costs more money without providing better outcomes. I know there is an orthodoxy for a lot of people here that the government sucks and private industry is better at everything but yet anytime I travel to other nations in the developed world they seem to like their healthcare system and outright fear and laugh at the cost and complexity of the US healthcare system. I also think our privatized healthcare system is bad for someone wanting to start their own business. Small businesses and start ups have to put their own and their families health on the line just to be able to get off the ground. That's a horrible and perverse incentive. Our healthcare system also makes it almost impossible for you to freelance or go into business for yourself and maintain good coverage. You see the government sucks at everything. Just ignore real world evidence that single payer systems produce similar or better outcomes for less money. No, none of this is accurate no matter how much you wish it to be. Healthcare is a commodity. It is individually applied, has no shared utility, and is finite. Your wishcasting and handwavium does not change this. Other nations reported health care costs are also not an accurate accounting of their actual expenses. Other nations have massive health care black markets which are not reported in the official statistics for political reasons. Other nations also manipulate their outcome reporting with legal refusal of care for sectors of the their populations which generate the worst outcomes. For example: In England smokers and the obese are denied orthopedic surgeries by law. Their outcomes and our outcomes are not an apples to oranges comparison. These same other nations have health care provider shortages, and many of their systems are on the verge of collapse; yet here you sit spouting off about unicorns.
billsfan89 Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: No, none of this is accurate no matter how much you wish it to be. Healthcare is a commodity. It is individually applied, has no shared utility, and is finite. Your wishcasting and handwavium does not change this. Other nations reported health care costs are also not an accurate accounting of their actual expenses. Other nations have massive health care black markets which are not reported in the official statistics for political reasons. Other nations also manipulate their outcome reporting with legal refusal of care for sectors of the their populations which generate the worst outcomes. For example: In England smokers and the obese are denied orthopedic surgeries by law. Their outcomes and our outcomes are not an apples to oranges comparison. These same other nations have health care provider shortages, and many of their systems are on the verge of collapse; yet here you sit spouting off about unicorns. Policing is a commodity, it is individually applied and there is only so much attention and patrolling that can be applied to specific areas. Yet we do not have a system where you need private police insurance to administer policing. Everything can be called a commodity if you break it down enough. So why do we treat policing which is paid for by the public and administered as such (while also having a private market for private security and investigation if you can afford it) but Healthcare which is a similar product (It isn't elastic, its finite, and people need it in emergency situations where they can't shop around) should be treated as a commodity despite the fact that it isn't a product you can ethically deny people and it is needed in emergency situations where you can't shop around? Please explain to me how a massive private insurance system where each provider has its own codes, own billing practices, own network of doctors and providers, and own billing administration is going to drive down costs for insurance? No amount of Durrrr government sucks waves that fact away.
DC Tom Posted December 31, 2018 Posted December 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Policing is a commodity, it is individually applied and there is only so much attention and patrolling that can be applied to specific areas. No, it's not. That is a gross misunderstanding.
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