Broncos Redraft: Chubb still or Allen/Other QB, etc

[Alphadawg7]

The Giants poll I started seems to have been a great thread, no insults lots of good comments, insight and discussion on all sides of the fence.  Well Broncos have a similar narrative to the Giants last year, so here goes:

 

Broncos had the 5th pick and clearly needed a QB.  They elected to sign Keenum and hoped they would get the guy who sparked the Vikes last year for the next 2 seasons so they could rebuild other parts of the team and get right back into contention.  The draft fell lucky for them in this regard as they got to snag Bradley Chubb who was a top overall pick talent but got him at #5 when most figured he would go either #1 to Browns, #2 to Giants or #4 to Browns in most mock drafts.  So at #5 he certainly felt like a steal.  

 

And, like Barkley, Chubb has lived up to every part of the hype sitting at almost 50 tackles and 12 sacks with a shot to break the rookie sack record.  So he has been everything as advertised.  However, Keenum has been a disappointment for Broncos and they enter 2019 as a team that probably (and should be) looking for a new QB...either a rookie to groom behind Keenums final year or an available vet via FA or Trade to upgrade from Keenum. 

 

Keenum:  225 yds/g, 15 TD's, 10 Int

 

So...you are again the GM of the Broncos.  Do you stay the course and take Chubb who is proving to be as good as advertised to pair with guys like Von Miller for years to come and hope you Defense can get back to Elite...or do you look at the opportunity to take that rookie QB that can potentially be the anchor of the franchise for the next decade.  

 

Making this more interesting is Darnold was gone, so not an option this time who was popular in Giants poll.  As of the time of this, Giants poll saw 43.6% stick with Barkley and 53.94% pick one of the QB's (spilt basically 50% between Allen and Darnold).  Lamar had 1 vote, and Rosen had none.  I dont think "other" will get any votes this time, the Giants one did because guys like Ward and Chubb were out there.  But dont know of anyone other than a QB that Broncos would take here over Chubb, so not expecting any votes there but included it anyway.  

 

Answering my own question:

This is a harder choice for me than Barkley, and even that one was a tough choice.  But elite pass rushers are more coveted than elite RB's, so feels like more reason to stick with Chubb vs sticking with Barkley.  However, that defense is still multiple pieces away from getting back to that 2015 team that won them a SB with a weak passing game and elite D.  So is the better long term solution to go with a QB instead in what was believed, and still looks, to be a deep QB class?  

 

Personally, I would go Allen again because I have a strong belief in Allen getting there, and if he does get there as a passer, he will be special given all the physical gifts he has and that is a hard thing to find.  If Chubb was the missing piece to an Elite D, I would certainly have a harder time passing on Chubb, but they still need some more pieces before that D can support a mediocre offense.  Where as I think they would be in better shape sooner taking Allen and pairing him with those RB's and WR's they have.  

Edited December 14, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[BillsFan130]

Haha love the topics Alpha.

 

I will still stick with the potential franchise QB and say Allen.

 

But I cant blame them for drafting Chubb as he was one of the elite players in the draft playing a very important position

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Imagine with the thin air in Denver.  Allen may throw the ball from one goal line to the other.

[PIZ]

I still can't believe Elway did not draft Allen.  His playing style reminded me of Allen.  I thought all the Buffalo-Denver trade talk was Elway trying to keep Buffalo from going up higher to get Allen.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, PIZ said:

I still can't believe Elway did not draft Allen.  His playing style reminded me of Allen.  I thought all the Buffalo-Denver trade talk was Elway trying to keep Buffalo from going up higher to get Allen.

 

Yeah, definitely seemed like a great pairing.  I was personally certain they would not take a QB once they got Keenum.  Not because I felt Keenum was good, I actually felt they should still go QB, just was certain they would not.  The reason being, Broncos got blown out of the SB with the greatest offense in history that shattered the Pats record, then 2 years later won it decisively with an Elite D but bottom of the league passing game.  

 

So I saw Elway looking to bandaid the QB position and try and compete now with a better D and ground game.  So even though I felt they should, I was pretty sure they would not take a QB.  In fact, going into the draft I felt both Giants and Broncos "should" go QB, but was pretty certain neither were which is why I did not want the Bills to trade into top 5 as I didn't think they needed to go any higher than 7, 8 or 9 to get their guy.    

16 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Haha love the topics Alpha.

 

I will still stick with the potential franchise QB and say Allen.

 

But I cant blame them for drafting Chubb as he was one of the elite players in the draft playing a very important position

 

Ha thanks, yeah the first one was a fun discussion so thought this one would be similar.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

35 minutes ago, PIZ said:

I still can't believe Elway did not draft Allen.  His playing style reminded me of Allen.  I thought all the Buffalo-Denver trade talk was Elway trying to keep Buffalo from going up higher to get Allen.

 

...Elway knows QB's...just ask him.....Brock Osweiler approves of this message.....37 million times....................

[Stank_Nasty]

my mouse fluttered between chubb and allen about 6 times but I settled on allen… i'll admit im biased. but the kid is gonna be pretty awesome IMO.

[Utah John]

Allen is turning out as expected/hoped for.  Lots of talent, some rookie mistakes, unmistakable progress through the year.  But there were a lot of doubters about him.  Poor completion percentage, weak competition in college, yada yada yada.  A lot of people on this board thought we took the wrong Josh.  Chubb on the other hand was a definite, 95% probabiity success, and they need to rebuild their D.  I think Elway thought Chubb plus Keenum was better than some FA DL player plus Allen, and went with the combination that had a better chance of working out.

 

And Keenum isn't a terrible QB, either.  Like every other QB he needs to be in the right situation with good players around him. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Utah John said:

Allen is turning out as expected/hoped for.  Lots of talent, some rookie mistakes, unmistakable progress through the year.  But there were a lot of doubters about him.  Poor completion percentage, weak competition in college, yada yada yada.  A lot of people on this board thought we took the wrong Josh.  Chubb on the other hand was a definite, 95% probabiity success, and they need to rebuild their D.  I think Elway thought Chubb plus Keenum was better than some FA DL player plus Allen, and went with the combination that had a better chance of working out.

 

And Keenum isn't a terrible QB, either.  Like every other QB he needs to be in the right situation with good players around him. 

 

But...in a redraft, knowing what we know now about all players in draft, do you stick with Chubb or go to Allen or someone else?

[Alphadawg7]

We are at 33 votes...and some surprises again here for me I didn't expect, especially after the Giants poll I did about Barkley.  

 

In the Giants poll, around 43% of the voters chose Barkley.  This was interesting to me since RB is often said to a position to not take that high, yet Barkley had the most individual votes.  QB in general had 56% of the votes, but they were spilt almost evenly between Darnold and Allen.  

 

So here I am surprised to see Allen beating out Chubb decisively so far with almost 70% of the votes.  Reason being, Chubb is having a sensational year too and pass rushers are always more valued than RB's in the top 5 of the draft.  Yet, Barkley was able to get 43% of the votes so far even though Darnold, Ward, and Chubb himself were also guys who could garner votes.  But here, with no Darnold or Ward, Chubb is getting crushed so far (albeit somewhat early) by Allen.  I really expected Chubb to get more votes than Barkley just because RB's are not as coveted as pass rushers.  

 

Another surprise:  Josh Rosen does not have a single vote in either Poll.  Some commented in the other thread that Darnold was the reason why since they had Darnold ranked higher than either Josh.  Or they had voted Barkley over any QB.  Well here we are, no Darnold and no Barkley.  Rosen still zero votes.  Still surprised given the intense amount anger that was here by the "wrong Josh" crowd for so long that not one person has casted a single vote for him in either poll.  

 

PS:  WHO VOTED OTHER?  Only ask because I am curious what player is the "other" player.  I didn't see any obvious choice for Broncos to take at #5 than Chubb or one of the QB's.  Nothing wrong with "other" vote, just curious to who the other player is I am not thinking of.  

Edited December 15, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[mannc]

The “other” option in both polls should include a trade back, which I think was the Giants’ best option.  FWIW, I think Denver made a mistake not taking Allen, but the Chubb pick makes more sense than the Giants taking Barkley.

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

The “other” option in both polls should include a trade back, which I think was the Giants’ best option.  FWIW, I think Denver made a mistake not taking Allen, but the Chubb pick makes more sense than the Giants taking Barkley.

 

Ah, yes, trade back I just figured would just be in the "other" category.  Yeah, I feel the same...Denver should have taken Allen, but Chubb makes more sense to them at #5 then Barkley did at #2 to Giants.  Especially because at least Denver signed a QB they thought could be competent enough where Eli was benched he was playing so bad the previous year and was already going to be 37 this year.

[Thriftygamer83]

Josh Allen plays exactly like John Elway.  In hindsight without Kubiak evaluating or elevating players to their level best; it’s showing just how much of a great talent which Gary Kubiak is.  Denver is building a strong defense but without a line and weapons for Keenum that was doomed from the start.  

[JerseyBills]

Allen by a landslide. Chubb is having a phenomenal rookie year, but even with a top 5 edge rusher opposite him, the 2 having the most sacks by any duo in the league, it's not going to equate to a playoff berth for the Broncos and they have an overpaid vet QB that is clearly not the answer for short or long term success. So with no legit options on the FA market, the Broncos are going to have to draft a franchise QB asap .

Allen would be even more impressive with that OL and solid WR corp and it is much much much easier to find a legit edge rusher than a franchise QB. 

[Bangarang]

I think it’s safe to assume that every team wishes they would have drafted Allen.

 

I’m shocked that the 31 other owners haven’t cleaned house yet.

[stinky finger]

4 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

my mouse fluttered between chubb and allen about 6 times but I settled on allen… i'll admit im biased. but the kid is gonna be pretty awesome IMO.

 

My chubb fluttered when we selected Allen.

[H2o]

They had no plans on drafting Allen. They had just committed a lot of $$$ to Keenum. They were going to trade down with us if Chubb wasn't on the board. Fortunate for us, but I believe if Elway could do it again he takes Josh, mentors him, and they have their QB for the next 10 years. 

[Jay_Fixit]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I think it’s safe to assume that every team wishes they would have drafted Allen.

 

I’m shocked that the 31 other owners haven’t cleaned house yet.

This is the other side of the pillow of posts.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

This is a tough one.  If Chubb puts in a Bruce Smith career you can not fault them for taking the #1 non-QB in the draft. I voted Allen with a slight bias that he would be a huge upgrade over Keenum and the Broncs offense without a QB is a huge reason for their downfall. The elite defense has not won them the games that an elite QB could. Allen must play like Elway to justify taking him over Chubb, but my gut tells me he will and I am glad we have him.

[cle23]

Chubb. He is already near elite pass rush status as a rookie. Allen is progressing but is still a huge question mark.