You’re GM of Giants...Do you take Barkley still in a redraft or Allen/Other QB?

[Kirby Jackson]

Great topic Alpha!!!

 

I voted Barkley. The QBs all have a chance to be good to great. Barkley to me though is an elite talent. He was one of the best backs that I ever saw in his sophomore year. 

[prissythecat]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Just for fun:

 

No doubt Barkley is having an incredible rookie season and proving worthy of such a high pick.  But given the importance of the QB position and seeing Eli is pretty much done and knowing what we know now what would you do in a redraft?  Would you still take Barkley #2 or take Allen (or other one of the QBs) instead?

 

Do you go safe and take the beast at RB?  Or gamble on the sky high upside Allen has been showing?  Or do you go QB but take one of the other guys instead?  Or is there another rookie you take instead?  Remember this is for the Giants, not just who you like more.

 

To answer my own question:

 

It would be a tough choice for me, but I am a believer in Allen and I really think he is going to get there and be a special talent.  I wouldn’t fault anyone who would choose Barkley either, Inmean he is just a beast out there.  But just because it’s harder to find that special QB, I think I would gamble by going with Allens upside even though Barkley is already amongst the best at his position in the NFL.  I love Barkley, so it’s a close call, just really have a lot of confidence in Allens future.  

 

The Giants obviously thought they could make a serious run with Manning and Barkley.  So much for that idea.

 

The jury is still out on Darnold , Allen, and Rosen.   I think there is a good chance that some or all will not be relevant in the NFL in a few seasons.    So can't fault the Giants for passing on them.

[BillsFan130]

Allen or Darnold. 

 

 And that’s nothing against Barkley as he’s a great player. 

 

It’s just A RB at 2 is way too high IMO, especially when you have a chance to draft a franchise QB

[Just Joshin']

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I thought they made the right call since all of the QB's had serious questions and I thought the QB draft class was overrated.  Same goes for the Broncos passing on Allen and Rosen.  Barkley was being called a generational player and you'd be crazy to pass on him if you bought that hype.  He's already the best running back in the league and is an absolute freak reminiscent of Bo Jackson pre injury.  Chubb has 12 sacks through 13 games and needs 3 more to break the rookie sack record. 

Every QB since Luck has had questions.  You still need to invest in the most important position when you have the opportunity.  Who is the sure QB this year?  I am guessing the best this year would have been #5 last year.

[Captain Hindsight]

"Next years QB draft is stacked!"

 

-Every GM that didn't get a QB this year.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

Hows Darnold/Mayfield/Rosen/Allen's teams doing in the standings?

 

The Giants arent losing because of Barkley and not passing on those 4 HOFers single handidly carrying their teams. They can still get a QB this year, or sign/trade for a veteran who can step right in with that team and help them right away, using picks to upgrade other spots. They got one of the best players in the draft at the #2 spot who is looking much more like an elite player in the league then any of the 4 QBs drafted this year have.

QBs are expected to struggle as rookies, and they have.  Barkley has been outstanding, as expected, but he’s not going to ever perform much better.  The QBs (assuming they become franchise QBs) will play much better in the next couple years and their teams will win a lot more games as a result. Barkley’s played about as well as he can and his team still hasn’t won.  And it’s not at all clear that whatever QB they land will be anywhere near as good as they guys they could have had this year.  Meanwhile, there is a Barkley-level RB talent available as a street free agent...

[Hebert19]

Not a cut and dry answer.   If there is a Qb you like in 2019 draft you take Barkley and hope for a Gurley goff connection.  Otherwise you get your qb

[prissythecat]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

QBs are expected to struggle as rookies, and they have.  Barkley has been outstanding, as expected, but he’s not going to ever perform much better.  The QBs (assuming they become franchise QBs) will play much better in the next couple years and their teams will win a lot more games as a result. Barkley’s played about as well as he can and his team still hasn’t won.  And it’s not at all clear that whatever QB they land will be anywhere near as good as they guys they could have had this year.  Meanwhile, there is a Barkley-level RB talent available as a street free agent...

 

Hunt is Barkley level?      Also, when is Hunt going to be able to play?   Not until 2020 probably?

[buffaloboyinATL]

100% Barkley without hesitation.  They will draft their QB of the future this year.  There is not another Barkley in next years draft.

[billspro]

Barkley is special and probably good enough to keep them in QB purgatory for the next decade. You need a QB to win in this league and passing on one is a huge mistake. 

[mannc]

Just now, prissythecat said:

 

Hunt is Barkley level?      Also, when is Hunt going to be able to play?   Not until 2020 probably?

He’ll be able to play next year, without a doubt.  He’s never even been charged with a crime, much less convicted.

[billspro]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

I don't think anybody would argue that Barkley isn't a good player. The issue is that if he's a top 10-15 RB, which is basically the highest you'll see him rated by any metric, he's underperforming relative to his contract.

 

The Giants took the most valuable asset in football and punted on it.

 

I think he is a top 5 RB already, maybe top 3.

[dave mcbride]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Just for fun:

 

No doubt Barkley is having an incredible rookie season and proving worthy of such a high pick.  But given the importance of the QB position and seeing Eli is pretty much done and knowing what we know now what would you do in a redraft?  Would you still take Barkley #2 or take Allen (or other one of the QBs) instead?

 

Do you go safe and take the beast at RB?  Or gamble on the sky high upside Allen has been showing?  Or do you go QB but take one of the other guys instead?  Or is there another rookie you take instead?  Remember this is for the Giants, not just who you like more.

 

To answer my own question:

 

It would be a tough choice for me, but I am a believer in Allen and I really think he is going to get there and be a special talent.  I wouldn’t fault anyone who would choose Barkley either, Inmean he is just a beast out there.  But just because it’s harder to find that special QB, I think I would gamble by going with Allens upside even though Barkley is already amongst the best at his position in the NFL.  I love Barkley, so it’s a close call, just really have a lot of confidence in Allens future.  

Good question! 

 

As it happens, the Giants could easily be 8-5 (e.g., losing on the last second to Carolina on a 63-yd fg by an erratic kicker), and Eli is actually having a very good season. He's upper echelon among qbs this year, I think.

[buffalobillswin]

9 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

I thought the Brownies were taking Saquon 1st and then best available qb at 4.

They hit homers with Baker and Denzel Ward though, both game changing players already playing at a high level.

I wonder what the Jets and Giants woud look like now if Cleveland had grabbed Saquon first.

 

It seems they also hit on the Nick Chubb pick. Dude is a baller. Which also illustrates that point that you don't need to draft a rb that high. 

[billspro]

4 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

100% Barkley without hesitation.  They will draft their QB of the future this year.  There is not another Barkley in next years draft.

 

There is may not be a QB of the future in this draft. And they are not in a good position to select one if there is.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

A QB. They had a premium pick in a QB rich draft and blew it. Now they will be left with trying to trade up to get someone they like. As good as Barkley has been, a QB could have transitioned into behind Manning and kept that position solved for a long time.

The question is whether they think Eli has 2-3 years left. I was very critical of the pick at the time, but it is the case that Manning has been very good this year. I don't see any signs of physical decline; he remains who he always was.

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea.

 

Many fans here were claiming the Giants to be the worst team in the league earlier in the season.

 

I never bought it. Too much talent offensively. 

They are still in the hunt. An 8-8 is gonna make it, I think, and they can beat anyone. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by dave mcbride

[SCBills]

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

To me - the RB has played well, but even if you draft a QB next year it is probably year 2 or 3 before he is taking the team anyplace - by that point Barkley is in year 4 and looking at a huge contract for a 5th year option or 2nd contract.

 

Therefore to me the wise thing at that spot was to grab a QB, but I get why they did not.  It was similar to the Bills the the year before - new GM/coach combo wanting to scout players and choose a good fit at QB.  I think for Pat Shurmer and that team - Darnold would be a great fit and having time to sit behind Eli would have made this team better now and going forward, but I get it and as I said in the buyers remorse thread - I do not think they are too upset because Barkley has been good.

 

 

 

This.  

 

Assuming (big assumption) that Hebert, Lock or Haskins pans out, as they are way lesser prospects than last years group, by the time they are ready to do anything, it will be time to pay Barkley and that’s going to be a lot of $$$ tied up at WR/RB.  

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

  There is not another Barkley in next years draft.

Nonsense.  The Broncos picked up an undrafted FA who’s been as good as Barkley this year.  

 

There are always great RBs available.

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Allen or Darnold. 

 

 And that’s nothing against Barkley as he’s a great player. 

 

It’s just A RB at 2 is way too high IMO, especially when you have a chance to draft a franchise QB

 

 

There is no spot too “high” to take a RB.  A guy like Barkley who looks to be a generational talent like an Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, etc can certainly be worth taking #1 overall even.  

 

However, that is also highly dependent on a team by team basis.  For example, if the team is also QB needy it’s pretty hard to take a RB this high over say a premiere QB prospect.  

 

So I do agree its harder to justify taking a RB top 2 if you have more pressing needs.  But if QB isn’t there to draft or you don’t need something like a QB or some Elite pass rusher, I don’t see any reason to not take a guy like Barkley.  So I would say more often, a RB is not ideal top 2 pick because if you’re picking top 2 you more likely have bigger needs, but Barkley’s talent is worthy of that high selection if it makes sense for your team to take him there.  

 

I voted Allen because I am a big believer in this kid getting there, and if Allen does indeed get there as a passer his physical gifts will make him special and he has the potential to be the best QB in the NFL and an all time great.  I’m so high on Allen and trust that McBeane will find some new tools for him on the offense that I think we will win our division next year and be a Bears type contender next year with a strong defense and rising offense.

 

[Elite Poster]

This many people taking Barkley are insane. Do you guys realize the next best RB from this class was undrafted and arguably with the same # of touches is more productive than SB.