An interesting document on the Niagara River

[The Senator]

20 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Like it!

 

Seriously... I do align politically left.  Yet, we are going off rails with the "pristine" environmental stuff!  We are just as arrogant as when we thought we could engineer all our problems away.

 

We need to move back towards classic conservationist thinking and away from being environmentalists.

 

I really latched on to the "Rambunctious Garden" school of thought.  It's a paradigm shift:

 

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Rambunctious_Garden.html?id=GWiISQAACAAJ&hl=en

 

"A paradigm shift is roiling the environmental world. For decades people have unquestioningly accepted the idea that our goal is to preserve nature in its pristine, pre-human state. But many scientists have come to see this as an outdated dream that thwarts bold new plans to save the environment and prevents us from having a fuller relationship with nature. Humans have changed the landscapes they inhabit since prehistory, and climate change means even the remotest places now bear the fingerprints of humanity. Emma Marris argues convincingly that it is time to look forward and create the "rambunctious garden," a hybrid of wild nature and human management.

In this optimistic book, readers meet leading scientists and environmentalists and visit imaginary Edens, designer ecosystems, and Pleistocene parks. Marris describes innovative conservation approaches, including rewilding, assisted migration, and the embrace of so-called novel ecosystems.

Rambunctious Garden is short on gloom and long on interesting theories and fascinating narratives, all of which bring home the idea that we must give up our romantic notions of pristine wilderness and replace them with the concept of a global, half-wild rambunctious garden planet, tended by us."

 

“As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.”

.

Edited December 14, 2018 by The Senator

[Wacka]

You youngsters will be able to see a dry American Falls again soon.  They plant on dewatering it soon.Was supposed to be done in 2019 to construct a new pedestrian walkway to Goat Island tom replace one built in 1901, but of course Albany  hasn't funded it yet.  There was record attendance back in 1969. I remember seeing a tomato plant growing out of the rocks near the shore  from one a worker threw there.

42 minutes ago, The Senator said:

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Wacka

[SomeDudeAtHome]

22 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Still not with out scares and shame.

 

IE:  "Love Canal" was supposed to be built as an All-American Canal to handle shipping and rival the Welland Canal around the dam/spillway structure (The Falls).  From Niagara Falls to Lake Ontario.  You know what happened there!  After Love's failed venture in late 1800s, early 1900s... It became the a nightmare as we all know.

 

There was a push in the 1950s to build an All-American Canal to compete with Welland.  Studies were done then quickly dropped!  Did they know what laid in the hole at the Love site! Of course they did.  The idea for an All-American Canal would quickly die during the 1960s!

 

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buffalo/comments/3nw3fb/i_see_your_1960s_highway_plans_and_raise_you_the/

 

 

This was to go from the Upper River just above Tonawanda to the shores of Lake Ontario, rivaling the Welland.  Buffalo would have never been turned into "Radiator Springs" with the building of the St.Lawrence Seaway.

 

Yet... The timebomb was sitting there all the while @ the Love Canal site and wouldn't be publicly exposed for another 15+ years!!! 

 

Food for thought...

 

 

I have read on Love Canal pretty extensively. All of it fascinates me. I'm only 28 so I wasn't around when everything started happening but the pictures and stories of people that lived there are great and terrifying. The same thing is kind of happening in Wheatfield now (just a couple miles from where I grew up) and at Tonawanda Coke.

 

And a Jetport? That's nuts. I can't imagine the way that would have reshaped the area there. 

[plenzmd1]

10 hours ago, SomeDudeAtHome said:

 

 

I have read on Love Canal pretty extensively. All of it fascinates me. I'm only 28 so I wasn't around when everything started happening but the pictures and stories of people that lived there are great and terrifying. The same thing is kind of happening in Wheatfield now (just a couple miles from where I grew up) and at Tonawanda Coke.

 

And a Jetport? That's nuts. I can't imagine the way that would have reshaped the area there. 

you's got any questions from a residents point of view ...fire em up brother! Granted I grew up there so was not an adult..lived there first 17 years of my life..I'll answer any question I can!

 

In some ways experienced the Love Canal as only a kid can..playing on it, riding mini bikes on it...all kinds of stuff

[Cripple Creek]

17 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

 

 

Buuuut... It is God's will AND natural path of the rivers and streams. Just making sure God's will is served.  Just making it the way God intended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...From 14,000, 9,000 & 4,000 years ago:

 

 

I find it hurtful that you didn't quote me in the above post.  After all, it was I who put out the bat signal.

[Wacka]

You can see the Love Canal area today. You can drive right up to the fenced in area. Drove past it back around 1980  after it was fenced in but before  the houses were torn down.  Was really spooky. It was close to dusk and there were  large warning signs on the fence. The street lights were operational still and the grass in the yards was several feet high.

[Cripple Creek]

28 minutes ago, Wacka said:

You can see the Love Canal area today. You can drive right up to the fenced in area. Drove past it back around 1980  after it was fenced in but before  the houses were torn down.  Was really spooky. It was close to dusk and there were  large warning signs on the fence. The street lights were operational still and the grass in the yards was several feet high.

Thank you 

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

I find it hurtful that you didn't quote me in the above post.  After all, it was I who put out the bat signal.

LoL... I came to the thread long before you picked up that red phone Commissioner Gordon.

 

I just happened to see Your sloppy signal.  

 

Consider it a "mercy *****" I didn't insult your slovenly ways.  I am not DCTom.

 

??

5 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Thank you 

You're not suppose to say: Thank You.

 

You're suppose to use The Corps Motto:

 

ESSAYONS!

 

That's French for: "Let Us Try!"

 

All hands on deck with this organization.  People don't just sit around (unless they have a mean Sudoku puzzle at hand going on) and give out: "Thank Yous."  Everybody tries, pitches in!

 

 

Get your hands dirty My Man!

 

 

 

For Asian carp!!! Hell no, they gotta work at it too!!! Or get shocked!!!

[Cripple Creek]

14 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

LoL... I came to the thread long before you picked up that red phone Commissioner Gordon.

 

I just happened to see Your sloppy signal.  

 

Consider it a "mercy *****" I didn't insult your slovenly ways.  I am not DCTom.

 

??

 

I put out the ORIGINAL bat signal on page one bucko.

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

I put out the ORIGINAL bat signal on page one bucko.

I prepared my responses before your post.

 

Yes, I do prepare.  ?

[SomeDudeAtHome]

9 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

you's got any questions from a residents point of view ...fire em up brother! Granted I grew up there so was not an adult..lived there first 17 years of my life..I'll answer any question I can!

 

In some ways experienced the Love Canal as only a kid can..playing on it, riding mini bikes on it...all kinds of stuff

 

Not sure I have any questions but would be more interested in stories I guess. 

 

My mom has worked with people that live on Grand Island now and have stories of weird rashes or leaving shoes out in the yard to come back and find them melted from the chemicals days later. 

 

I also know someone who monitors the wells around there now and takes the "water" samples from them. They say that you wouldn't even know it was water by looking at it.

[plenzmd1]

27 minutes ago, SomeDudeAtHome said:

 

Not sure I have any questions but would be more interested in stories I guess. 

 

My mom has worked with people that live on Grand Island now and have stories of weird rashes or leaving shoes out in the yard to come back and find them melted from the chemicals days later. 

 

I also know someone who monitors the wells around there now and takes the "water" samples from them. They say that you wouldn't even know it was water by looking at it.

Hard to describe, but houses were never built over the actual "canal"...only the 99th street school. So there was this kinda wild area where one could play and wonder as a youngster and ride mini bikes as 12/13yr old. Let's just say you avoided dumpin in black ***** at all costs...stuff would sting for days!

 

The shoes story sounds a little urban mythish..but who knows?

 

97th and 99th street were my main route on my Courier Express route...damn streets were like 3/4 mile long

Edited December 14, 2018 by plenzmd1

[SomeDudeAtHome]

30 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Hard to describe, but houses were never built over the actual "canal"...only the 99th street school. So there was this kinda wild area where one could play and wonder as a youngster and ride mini bikes as 12/13yr old. Let's just say you avoided dumpin in black ***** at all costs...stuff would sting for days!

 

The shoes story sounds a little urban mythish..but who knows?

 

97th and 99th street were my main route on my Courier Express route...damn streets were like 3/4 mile long

 

haha those were the days right? 

 

Imagine what NF could've been if it wasn't for what all the factories did to the area. Should be a slice of paradise but now will never be. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

40 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Hard to describe, but houses were never built over the actual "canal"...only the 99th street school. So there was this kinda wild area where one could play and wonder as a youngster and ride mini bikes as 12/13yr old. Let's just say you avoided dumpin in black ***** at all costs...stuff would sting for days!

 

The shoes story sounds a little urban mythish..but who knows?

 

97th and 99th street were my main route on my Courier Express route...damn streets were like 3/4 mile long

Thanks for the input... I remember You saying that You grew up in The Falls by the Love site.  Such a horrible part of Our history. How it messed up the lives of so many... Awful what happened.  Not to bring back painful memories, do you think it contributed to some of the stories of sickness (w/Family & Friends) you've mentioned through the years here on The Board? 

 

 

8 minutes ago, SomeDudeAtHome said:

 

haha those were the days right? 

 

Imagine what NF could've been if it wasn't for what all the factories did to the area. Should be a slice of paradise but now will never be. 

I think that is a bit unfair.  The factories, power production all started there. We wouldn't be a modern society without The Falls.

 

Tesla invented the AC motor, AC won the current battle with the help of The Falls.

 

The question should be... What would NF be like if we had the regulations in place then as we do now?

 

The WNY area served the country, especially during War Times the most...  And the World, yet it was used and discarded.  What a disgrace.

Edited December 15, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[Greybeard]

On 12/12/2018 at 10:56 PM, SomeDudeAtHome said:

This is a very interesting and informative thread! Thank you to all who have contributed. I've really enjoyed the reading and will watch the videos at some point. As someone who lives in the City of Tonawanda not far from the river (I now want to call it a strait) I always love reading about the history and how things shaped the area I live in.

     

 

     Here are some more video's you might be interested in, although they cover Niagara Falls more than the river.

 

          

 

 

A PBS documentary.

https://www.pbs.org/video/wned-tv-documentaries-niagara-falls/

 

Some impressive views of the falls.  Only 2 min long.  The full vid is on NYState and will be on the Smithsonian channel the end of December.  I have seen it before and it is really interesting.  Very good quality video.

https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/videos/niagara-falls/14388

 

I have  Niagara Falls:Fatal Attraction on my DVR.  It covers a good bit about the Falls, the collapses, the over the falls attempts and the water shutdown. etc.

I could not find a link but I am guessing some of these might also be video's at your local library.  I see I missed the first 6 minutes so I will have to try our local

library to see if they have anything.  Sounds like it is narrated by the guy who does "How it's Made."   I recorded it off a cable channel "Destination America HD."

My cable supplier, Spectrum, doesn't offer that channel anymore.

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Thanks for the input... I remember You saying that You grew up in The Falls by the Love site.  Such a horrible part of Our history. How it messed up the lives of so many... Awful what happened.  Not to bring back painful memories, do you think it contributed to some of the stories of sickness (w/Family & Friends) you've mentioned through the years here on The Board? 

 

 

I think that is a bit unfair.  The factories, power production all started there. We wouldn't be a modern society without The Falls.

 

Tesla invented the AC motor, AC won the current battle with the help of The Falls.

 

The question should be... What would NF be like if we had the regulations in place then as we do now?

 

The WNY area served the country, especially during War Times the most...  And the World, yet it was used and discarded.  What a disgrace.

 

    You might also wonder what Buffalo would be like today since it was a major benefactor of the early power.  I believe that was one of the attractions when Buffalo hosted the World's Fair.

[ExiledInIllinois]

13 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

     

 

     Here are some more video's you might be interested in, although they cover Niagara Falls more than the river.

 

          

 

 

A PBS documentary.

https://www.pbs.org/video/wned-tv-documentaries-niagara-falls/

 

Some impressive views of the falls.  Only 2 min long.  The full vid is on NYState and will be on the Smithsonian channel the end of December.  I have seen it before and it is really interesting.  Very good quality video.

https://www.smithsonianchannel.com/videos/niagara-falls/14388

 

I have  Niagara Falls:Fatal Attraction on my DVR.  It covers a good bit about the Falls, the collapses, the over the falls attempts and the water shutdown. etc.

I could not find a link but I am guessing some of these might also be video's at your local library.  I see I missed the first 6 minutes so I will have to try our local

library to see if they have anything.  Sounds like it is narrated by the guy who does "How it's Made."   I recorded it off a cable channel "Destination America HD."

My cable supplier, Spectrum, doesn't offer that channel anymore.

 

    You might also wonder what Buffalo would be like today since it was a major benefactor of the early power.  I believe that was one of the attractions when Buffalo hosted the World's Fair.

Yep!

 

Going a bit on tangent but staying on theme.

 

Have you ever read about the time the WHOLE Upper Niagara River stopped flowing?

 

An ice dam, gorged up at mouth of Lake.  Caused Falls to stop.  No sch *t!  1800s.  Obviously, the Ice Boom now prevents this:

 

March 28-30th, 1848:

 

http://www.niagarafrontier.com/fallsstopped.html

 

The roar stopped... And in those days, the roar of Falls was heard far distances in a quiet agrarian society... People, farmers got worried thinking the end of world was near!

 

Read the included hyperlinks, the "frozen Falls" stories:

 

 

People back in day were allowed to go out and play on the Frozen Falls.

Edited December 15, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[SomeDudeAtHome]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Thanks for the input... I remember You saying that You grew up in The Falls by the Love site.  Such a horrible part of Our history. How it messed up the lives of so many... Awful what happened.  Not to bring back painful memories, do you think it contributed to some of the stories of sickness (w/Family & Friends) you've mentioned through the years here on The Board? 

 

 

I think that is a bit unfair.  The factories, power production all started there. We wouldn't be a modern society without The Falls.

 

Tesla invented the AC motor, AC won the current battle with the help of The Falls.

 

The question should be... What would NF be like if we had the regulations in place then as we do now?

 

The WNY area served the country, especially during War Times the most...  And the World, yet it was used and discarded.  What a disgrace.

Oh I agree completely. I wasn't trying to say I wish they weren't there at all. Just that they would have understood/ cared/ had the foresight about what they were doing

[Greybeard]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yep!

 

Going a bit on tangent but staying on theme.

 

Have you ever read about the time the WHOLE Upper Niagara River stopped flowing?

 

An ice dam, gorged up at mouth of Lake.  Caused Falls to stop.  No sch *t!  1800s.  Obviously, the Ice Boom now prevents this:

 

March 28-30th, 1848:

 

http://www.niagarafrontier.com/fallsstopped.html

 

The roar stopped... And in those days, the roar of Falls was heard far distances in a quiet agrarian society... People, farmers got worried thinking the end of world was near!

 

Read the included hyperlinks, the "frozen Falls" stories:

 

 

People back in day were allowed to go out and play on the Frozen Falls.

             They mentioned it in the Niagara Falls:Fatal Attraction Documentary.    As a side story, my uncle lived just down stream from the Sandy Beach Yacht Club which is on Grand Island.  In the 60's before the ice boom was put across the mouth of the river, it was common to get huge ice flows coming down in the spring.   One early spring weekend morning he was out looking at the river when he heard a loud "crack."   He looked toward the sound and it was the T portion of the Sandy Beach dock, which was further out in the river, so the T was parallel to the shore, buckling up.  It was a rather large dock.  He always described it as folding like an accordion.  The boom was installed in 1964, much to the joy of the people who had docks on the Niagara.   It was a common occurrence to have dock damage every spring.

[ExiledInIllinois]

15 minutes ago, SomeDudeAtHome said:

Oh I agree completely. I wasn't trying to say I wish they weren't there at all. Just that they would have understood/ cared/ had the foresight about what they were doing

I understand. I see where you are coming from.  I meant no offense, just being blunt.  So much to talk about, analyze... IMO, stuff like these discussions make me tick.  Why they all laughed about sending out the "Bat Signal."  Your input is wonderful!!!

 

Different culture.  Talking about the Greatest Generation, even prior with the Lost Generation (fought WWI). Getting things "done" for the "group" was paramount to all else.  It wasn't an, as much an off the rails individualistic society like now.  People took their "lumps"... That thinking disappeared!

5 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

             They mentioned it in the Niagara Falls:Fatal Attraction Documentary.    As a side story, my uncle lived just down stream from the Sandy Beach Yacht Club which is on Grand Island.  In the 60's before the ice boom was put across the mouth of the river, it was common to get huge ice flows coming down in the spring.   One early spring weekend morning he was out looking at the river when he heard a loud "crack."   He looked toward the sound and it was the T portion of the Sandy Beach dock, which was further out in the river, so the T was parallel to the shore, buckling up.  It was a rather large dock.  He always described it as folding like an accordion.  The boom was installed in 1964, much to the joy of the people who had docks on the Niagara.   It was a common occurrence to have dock damage every spring.

Great!  I didn't check out the whole video you posted... Glad it's in there. Will view it later.

Edited December 15, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[plenzmd1]

2 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Thanks for the input... I remember You saying that You grew up in The Falls by the Love site.  Such a horrible part of Our history. How it messed up the lives of so many... Awful what happened.  Not to bring back painful memories, do you think it contributed to some of the stories of sickness (w/Family & Friends) you've mentioned through the years here on The Board? 

 

 

 

 

Mom, Pops, Brother all dead from cancer, hell yea I think it contributed. What i don't do is place blame on any one entity..lots of blame to go around.