An interesting document on the Niagara River

[Greybeard]

https://www.lre.usace.army.mil/Missions/Great-Lakes-Information/Outflows/Discharge-Measurements/Niagara-River/

 

 I find the info in here interesting.   It also covers the history of modifications to the river.

[RochesterRob]

  Very interesting.  Not a big expert but I enjoy reading about how the region came to be in terms of geology and natural forces.  Rivers flowing northward are uncommon in the US but the region has 3 with the Niagara, Genesee, and the less direct Seneca.  All three empty into Lake Ontario.  And the lake plain roughly from Syracuse to Buffalo promoted the idea of the Erie Canal which gave the region prominence in the early days of the US.  The Ontario lake plain was considered the breadbasket of the nation before the Midwest opened to settlement in the couple decades prior to the Civil War.

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  Very interesting.  Not a big expert but I enjoy reading about how the region came to be in terms of geology and natural forces.  Rivers flowing northward are uncommon in the US but the region has 3 with the Niagara, Genesee, and the less direct Seneca.  All three empty into Lake Ontario.  And the lake plain roughly from Syracuse to Buffalo promoted the idea of the Erie Canal which gave the region prominence in the early days of the US.  The Ontario lake plain was considered the breadbasket of the nation before the Midwest opened to settlement in the couple decades prior to the Civil War.

  I should note that my wife's mother's family was one of the earliest settlers west of the Genesee River.  I knew a couple of people from college with similar histories and sometimes wished my family had similar story to tell.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  Very interesting.  Not a big expert but I enjoy reading about how the region came to be in terms of geology and natural forces.  Rivers flowing northward are uncommon in the US but the region has 3 with the Niagara, Genesee, and the less direct Seneca.  All three empty into Lake Ontario.  And the lake plain roughly from Syracuse to Buffalo promoted the idea of the Erie Canal which gave the region prominence in the early days of the US.  The Ontario lake plain was considered the breadbasket of the nation before the Midwest opened to settlement in the couple decades prior to the Civil War.

  I should note that my wife's mother's family was one of the earliest settlers west of the Genesee River.  I knew a couple of people from college with similar histories and sometimes wished my family had similar story to tell.

Are you talking English settlers or early French Settlers?

 

because the French were west of the Genesee since the 1600s... they had fur traders and settlements all over New France 

 

Fort Niagara was built in the 1600s...  but the English colonies didn’t go west of the genesee in mass for a while after...

 

Natives caused too much problems for them 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Buffalo716

[RochesterRob]

7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Are you talking English settlers or early French Settlers?

 

because the French were west of the Genesee since the 1600s... they had fur traders and settlements all over New France 

 

Fort Niagara was built in the 1600s...  but the English colonies didn’t go west of the genesee in mass for a while after...

 

Natives caused too much problems for them 

  English.  I saw a headstone in a cemetery west of Rochester that has a number of her relatives in it.  Death date around 1826 on it.  Don't remember the surname on that one nor recall just when they did cross the Genesee River.  I remember stories of crossing the river in back in those days as sometimes the water level would come up quickly down around the Henrietta-Scottsville area.  Either due to rain further south or spring melt depending on the time of year.  They were leary to cross in March.

Edited December 13, 2018 by RochesterRob

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  English.  I saw a headstone in a cemetery west of Rochester that has a number of her relatives in it.  Death date around 1826 on one.  Don't remember the surname on that one nor recall just when they did cross the Genesee River.  I remember stories of crossing the river in back in those days as sometimes the water level would come up quickly down around the Henrietta-Scottsville area.  Either due to rain further south or spring melt depending on the time of year.  They were leary to cross in March.

Awesome story 

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, Greybeard said:

https://www.lre.usace.army.mil/Missions/Great-Lakes-Information/Outflows/Discharge-Measurements/Niagara-River/

 

 I find the info in here interesting.   It also covers the history of modifications to the river.

@ExiledInIllinois ALERT!!!!!!

 

The beast will soon be unleashed.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Cripple Creek

[Seasons1992]

7 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

@ExiledInIllinois ALERT!!!!!!

 

The beast will soon be unleashed.

 

I couldn't get here quick enough..........

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, Greybeard said:

https://www.lre.usace.army.mil/Missions/Great-Lakes-Information/Outflows/Discharge-Measurements/Niagara-River/

 

 I find the info in here interesting.   It also covers the history of modifications to the river.

Dig a little deeper.  It gets interesting.  Why you will never see the elevations at Detroit (straits) "controlled."  The Niagara Diversion is the power cornerstone of The Lakes.

 

I highly... HIGHLY RECOMMENDED, highly recommend this book... If You want to be enlightened:

 

Great Lakes Water Wars

 

http://greatlakeswaterwars.com

 

7 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

I couldn't get here quick enough..........

Well... You've come to the right place, like the Crippled One said.

 

 

 

 

Bacically, think of the Great Lakes as a set of "rivers" that flow to the sea.  Lakes of flowing glacial melt water.  Right now, I won't get into the geology and behind what makes it work and all the other geological nuances. Technically... The Niagara River isn't a river it's a "spillway" or strait between two bodies of water.  But let's call it a river, heck even the straits @ Detroit (which Detroit translated to English from French means: Strait)... The Sinclair River can be viewed the same way.

 

Within that flowing system you have a series of diversions. This is all part of the enhanced, modified, impoved (since 1959) "Great Lakes Seaway."

 

To start simply.  The three Middle Lakes elevations aren't controlled by humans.  That's Lake Michigan/Huron (same elevation, basically same lake) and 5 feet lower, Lake Erie.

 

Water leaves (in the classic sense) the Lakes in only two places.  The St.Lawrence River and @ the Chicago Diversion or Chicago Area Waterways (CAWs). Everywhere else, water enters the Great Lakes basin.

 

Interesting fact, since the War.  25% MORE WATER ENTERS the Great Lakes (@ Lake Superior, ~25' higher than Lake Michigan/Huron) than what the Chicago Diversion takes out and sends to the Gulf of Mexico. The Chicago Diversion diverts daily just under what spills over The Falls daily. This diversion INTO Lake Superior, in two places, is FROM the Arctic basin @ Long Lac & Ogoki.

 

Gotta get Great Lakes Water Wars to read Chapter 6.  The preview is a 404 now:

 

http://greatlakeswaterwars.com/chapter6.htm

 

Not sure if they mentioned this in the Corps, LRE (Great Lakes & Rivers Division, Detroit District) that the OP, Greybeard posted.  Will go back and check.  Do they want to keep this hushed?  

 

http://nipigonmuseumtheblog.blogspot.com/2017/02/a-diverting-experience-ogoki.html?m=1

 

More to follow from The Beast... Gotta run...

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Tied into what I mentioned above.

 

From the LRE piece OP posted.  This (1941) coincided with adding more water to Lake Superior starting during WWII. Power generating capabiliy at those facilities and on down the line from The Soo to Niagara.  The Falls can be kept @ optimal aesthetics during the day for tourists:

 

 

"Before 1941, the total allowable diversion of water from the Niagara River for power purposes was 56,000 cfs. During 1941, this limit was increased to 82,500 cfs. This increase in diversion highlighted the need for such a weir. Construction of this weir took place between 1942 and 1947. The weir raised the level of the Chippawa-Grass Island Pool, which had been lowered by the power diversions, and improved the flow over the American Falls and in the vicinity of the Three Sisters Islands. However, the weir caused a small decrease in the flow over the Horseshore Falls, thus making the conditions at the flanks of the Horseshoe somewhat less satisfactory."

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  English.  I saw a headstone in a cemetery west of Rochester that has a number of her relatives in it.  Death date around 1826 on one.  Don't remember the surname on that one nor recall just when they did cross the Genesee River.  I remember stories of crossing the river in back in those days as sometimes the water level would come up quickly down around the Henrietta-Scottsville area.  Either due to rain further south or spring melt depending on the time of year.  They were leary to cross in March.

Per my research, the river is too high to ford in March.  You can caulk the wagon but you stand about a 60% chance of capsizing and losing half your clothes. 

[bbb]

6 hours ago, Greybeard said:

https://www.lre.usace.army.mil/Missions/Great-Lakes-Information/Outflows/Discharge-Measurements/Niagara-River/

 

 I find the info in here interesting.   It also covers the history of modifications to the river.

 

The river leaves Lake Erie at Buffalo, New York. It immediately narrows to a width of 1,500 feet and depth of 17 feet as it reaches a rock ledge, which naturally controls its outflow. This constricted channel is spanned by the Peace Bridge, with three piers which further restrict the channel.

 

I cannot find a picture online from on top of the Peace Bridge looking out onto Lake Erie (or down the river, for that matter).  I always have to look, even if I'm driving, because it's such a great view............I have no idea why nobody seems to have taken pictures from up there. 

Or if anybody has seen pics, please post. 

3 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Dig a little deeper.  It gets interesting.  Why you will never see the elevations at Detroit (straits) "controlled."  The Niagara Diversion is the power cornerstone of The Lakes.

 

I highly... HIGHLY RECOMMENDED, highly recommend this book... If You want to be enlightened:

 

Great Lakes Water Wars

 

http://greatlakeswaterwars.com

 

Well... You've come to the right place, like the Crippled One said.

 

 

 

This was a good podcast last month.  It was with the author of another Great Lakes book:

 

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/11/09/death-and-life-great-lakes-dan-egan

[Augie]

4 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

@ExiledInIllinois ALERT!!!!!!

 

The beast will soon be unleashed.

 

How was I soooo late? 

4 hours ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

I couldn't get here quick enough..........

 

We both failed here, but there’s always next time.....

[Greybeard]

       Beginning in 1918, water was diverted from the Niagara River through the New York State Barge Canal, mainly for navigation purposes. This water, between 700 and 1,000 cfs, is diverted from the river at Tonawanda, New York and returned to Lake Ontario via the Oswego and Genesee Rivers and the Oak Orchard and Eighteen Mile Creeks, in New York State.

 

          Hard to believe the water going into the canal at the Tonawanda's is coming out in the above rivers.   It did not occur to me that the water was flowing into the Canal.  I live  200 feet from the Oswego River and it is a long way from the Tonawanda canal entrance.    I'm also impressed with some of the elevation drops in the river.  50+ ft in a couple of places.

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, bbb said:

 

The river leaves Lake Erie at Buffalo, New York. It immediately narrows to a width of 1,500 feet and depth of 17 feet as it reaches a rock ledge, which naturally controls its outflow. This constricted channel is spanned by the Peace Bridge, with three piers which further restrict the channel.

 

I cannot find a picture online from on top of the Peace Bridge looking out onto Lake Erie (or down the river, for that matter).  I always have to look, even if I'm driving, because it's such a great view............I have no idea why nobody seems to have taken pictures from up there. 

Or if anybody has seen pics, please post. 

 

This was a good podcast last month.  It was with the author of another Great Lakes book:

 

https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/11/09/death-and-life-great-lakes-dan-egan

I will simplify.  Keep it in layman's terms... But more geology with regard to The Niagara Spillway.

 

That "rock ledge" is the Onondaga Escarpment/formation.  It's what you see along Main Street and as you head/drive  into Buffalo along The 33, Kensington Expressway:

 

 

You can see how it impounds Lake Erie @ its mouth.

 

The next drop is the doosy.  The Niagara Escarpment:

 

 

 

 

http://geo.msu.edu/extra/geogmich/niagara.html

 

You can see how that formation impounds the Middle Lakes.

 

Final formation is in the Boston Hills of WNY. Impounds the American shore of L.Erie.  The Portage Escarpment:

 

 

 

[bbb]

Why are you quoting me with that info?  All I asked for are pictures from the Peace Bridge! 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, bbb said:

Why are you quoting me with that info?  All I asked for are pictures from the Peace Bridge! 

Sorry... Just off on tangent.  Intetesting... That "rock ledge" from your post is part of massive formation.

 

Just adding info to the thread... If people find it interesting, want to know.

 

Again sorry... Hope somebody can add pics.  I probably shouldn't have quoted you.

 

Best I can find:

 

River to North, from Lake...

 

 

Looking SouthWest towards Lake:

 

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, bbb said:

 

The river leaves Lake Erie at Buffalo, New York. It immediately narrows to a width of 1,500 feet and depth of 17 feet as it reaches a rock ledge, which naturally controls its outflow. This constricted channel is spanned by the Peace Bridge, with three piers which further restrict the channel.

 

I cannot find a picture online from on top of the Peace Bridge looking out onto Lake Erie (or down the river, for that matter).  I always have to look, even if I'm driving, because it's such a great view............I have no idea why nobody seems to have taken pictures from up there. 

Or if anybody has seen pics, please post. 

 

 

[Marv's Neighbor]

The Niagara is a beautiful river.  Lived in the Pacific NW of 20 years, and they have a whole lot of beautiful water views too.  Now we're in Richmond VA., and the James River is one moving mud hole.  There's so much silt from the Blue Ridge area, that I'm wondering how there are still any mountains left, W of us?  People here still pay big $$ for a "water view," but a view of what?

 

The nuns told us that there never were any American Bison E of the Mississippi but that the French named our area Beau Fleuve (beautiful river)  that eventually ended up as being called Buffalo.  Now we see the Beau Fleuve Music and Arts festival, so maybe they were right?

[Cripple Creek]

39 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Sorry... Just off on tangent. 

 

[Augie]

6 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

@ExiledInIllinois ALERT!!!!!!

 

The beast will soon be unleashed.

 

This has now become even funnier. Not a surprise, but certainly not a disappointment!