The Trump Shutdown

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Swill Merchant said:

 

I hear what you're saying. You want a comprehensive bill that addresses the issue more thoroughly. But understanding that building a physical boundary now does not preclude the adoption of such policies later, I pose a question:

 

What is your best argument for denying funding for a physical barrier?

I would if it were just a 2000 mile wall across the entire Southern border.  Because that's not needed.  I would certainly vote to fund parts of it where absolutely required as I pointed out above.  One question on that:  would we need a wall in North Dakota or Montana?  What is the extent of illegal crossings/smuggling there, I wonder?

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would if it were just a 2000 mile wall across the entire Southern border.  Because that's not needed.  I would certainly vote to fund parts of it where absolutely required as I pointed out above.  One question on that:  would we need a wall in North Dakota or Montana?  What is the extent of illegal crossings/smuggling there, I wonder?

 

Many multitudes less crosses from the north vs the south. Why? The difference in law enforcement and stability in Canada versus Mexico.

[Swill Merchant]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

I would if it were just a 2000 mile wall across the entire Southern border.  Because that's not needed.  I would certainly vote to fund parts of it where absolutely required as I pointed out above.  One question on that:  would we need a wall in North Dakota or Montana?  What is the extent of illegal crossings/smuggling there, I wonder?

So basically, you think congress should fund the President's proposed barrier, and you think we should look into building one on the northern border too.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Swill Merchant said:

So basically, you think congress should fund the President's proposed barrier, and you think we should look into building one on the northern border too.

No.  I do not think the Congress should fund the President's proposed barrier, because I don't know what his proposed barrier is because he seemingly changes his mind every day on what that is.  My understanding is he wants a 2000 mile long beautiful wall along the entire Southern border. I don't feel that's necessary.  I would fund what the professionals suggest is absolutely required in certain areas.

 

I mention the Northern border because if we're going to talk about protecting our country against drugs, potential terrorists coming across, etc. there are miles of unsecured border on our Northern border as well.  Should we not also be concerned there?

5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Many multitudes less crosses from the north vs the south. Why? The difference in law enforcement and stability in Canada versus Mexico.

Good point.  But one of the arguments given when the statistic about only 6 folks of watch lists crossed the Southern border is that if even one gets by and commits a terrorist act that it's one too many.  Should that logic not also apply to the Northern border?

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Good point.  But one of the arguments given when the statistic about only 6 folks of watch lists crossed the Southern border is that if even one gets by and commits a terrorist act that it's one too many.  Should that logic not also apply to the Northern border?

 

It should, and for the most part does. But we both agree that building a wall just to build a wall is a waste of resources. You do not need a wall in the north at present from everything I've gathered - though to be fair, I have not spoken to the men and women who patrol the northern border as often as I do those who work on the southern border (I'm in SoCal). 

 

Now, things might change if we secure (more properly) the southern border. The lanes will change, perhaps more people will try to cross in the north and then we'll have to reassess it in a few years. We can't predict the counter moves the bad guys (smugglers/traffickers not immigrants) will make. 

[whatdrought]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

No.  I do not think the Congress should fund the President's proposed barrier, because I don't know what his proposed barrier is because he seemingly changes his mind every day on what that is.  My understanding is he wants a 2000 mile long beautiful wall along the entire Southern border. I don't feel that's necessary.  I would fund what the professionals suggest is absolutely required in certain areas.

 

I mention the Northern border because if we're going to talk about protecting our country against drugs, potential terrorists coming across, etc. there are miles of unsecured border on our Northern border as well.  Should we not also be concerned there?

Good point.  But one of the arguments given when the statistic about only 6 folks of watch lists crossed the Southern border is that if even one gets by and commits a terrorist act that it's one too many.  Should that logic not also apply to the Northern border?

 

Just to check, what percentage of your house is surrounded by walls? I mean, the wind primarily blows from the west. Why not only build a western facing wall and have three open sides. 

 

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Now, things might change if we secure (more properly) the southern border. The lanes will change, perhaps more people will try to cross in the north and then we'll have to reassess it in a few years. We can't predict the counter moves the bad guys (smugglers/traffickers not immigrants) will make. 

 

Maybe the real solution is the China way- Just execute drug smugglers. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by whatdrought

[TH3]

21 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Never gonna happen.  Both parties want to maintain immigration reform as an election issue - actually reforming immigration means they have one less issue to rile up their base.  

Huh....I seem to remember to Senate passed a comprehensive bill but the "freedom" caucus would not let Bohner bring it to the floor......as it would have passed.....the Hastert rule....a real gem....40 congressmen doing god's work....

[B-Man]

ROGER SIMON: May the Shutdown Go On Forever.

 

FTA:

 

the shutdown should be about much more than the wall and border security.  

Serious as they may be, they are what the shrinks call the "presenting complaint."  The real issue is the function of government itself -- what's important and what's not. A shutdown can serve as a living laboratory for examining the question of what is actually worthwhile that is missing because of that event.  I daresay that most outside the Beltway would be hard pressed to find anything. (A fair number of these people can get around the National Parks by themselves, especially in the days of GPS.)

 

Both sides fear shutdowns not just because of that nauseatingly tedious inter-party blame game, but more importantly because it exposes this bloat and who caused it (i.e., who paid for what).  This is the Deep State in action, in the off-chance anyone hasn't noticed.  What has been created by our government over decades is a self-preservation machine immune to the normal capitalist processes of creative destruction that have largely improved society over centuries, enriching almost everyone and extending life expectancy.

 

 

.

 

 

[snafu]

50 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Never gonna happen.  Both parties want to maintain immigration reform as an election issue - actually reforming immigration means they have one less issue to rile up their base.  

 

...or they could pass a crappy solution and blame each other for it and make fixing it their election issue.  So, while highly unlikely, it could happen.

 

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, snafu said:

 

...or they could pass a crappy solution and blame each other for it and make fixing it their election issue.  So, while highly unlikely, it could happen.

 

 

Like DACA?  How'd that go?  

 

These two parties can't even ***** up without ***** it up.

[snafu]

6 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Like DACA?  How'd that go?  

 

These two parties can't even ***** up without ***** it up.

 

I don't recall a DACA bill being debated on the floor, or voted upon -- or being very bi-partisan for that matter.

The one I had in mind was the ACA repeal.  That is a cluster ***** that will yield eternal stump time.

 

 

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

5 hours ago, Swill Merchant said:

If you just stretch a little further I believe you can reach the straw.

Well, it seems that you are used to bending over and taking it.

[Doc Brown]

Damn.  Pelosi.  Where was this fight  from the Dems nine years ago?

[boyst]

4 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Well, it seems that you are used to bending over and taking it.

Wow. Witty comeback. If anyone knows men bent over it's you, I reckon as the position seems to be one forced upon you as you meander down the balloon knot blvd. getting reamed by everyone.

 

Try harder in your efforts to insult. That was terrible.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

3 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Wow. Witty comeback. If anyone knows men bent over it's you, I reckon as the position seems to be one forced upon you as you meander down the balloon knot blvd. getting reamed by everyone.

 

Try harder in your efforts to insult. That was terrible.

I don't know, you would know about blowing on immature knots...

[LB3]

Always funny to me to see NPC's claim to support gays in one breath and insinuate someone is gay as a way of insulting them in the next.

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

I don't know, you would know about blowing on immature knots...

Actually, I wouldn't. #fakenews retard.

 

Try again.

 

But, at least I can be creative while you suckle off the lowest hanging fruit of insults which is to call people gay.  I guess that's just repressing some inner thoughts.  

 

Why do the homos threaten you?  Why are you scared?

2 minutes ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said:

Always funny to me to see NPC's claim to support gays in one breath and insinuate someone is gay as a way of insulting them in the next.

I am sure NPC supports the gays. I am sure he has a card to all the glory holes that gets punched every time he visits.

 

And by card: I mean his ass

And by punched: I mean ***** 

[Deranged Rhino]

54 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Well, it seems that you are used to bending over and taking it.

 

NPCinPhilly fails to remember that this kind of joke can get you fired from work, outcast from your social groups, and be held over your head for years. 

 

Why does NPCinPhilly forget such a fundamental rule of progressive facism? Because he's an NPC. Incapable of independent thought as he continues to prove with each and every post.

[B-Man]

2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

NPCinPhilly fails to remember that this kind of joke can get you fired from work, outcast from your social groups, and be held over your head for years. 

 

Why does NPCinPhilly forget such a fundamental rule of progressive facism? Because he's an NPC. Incapable of independent thought as he continues to prove with each and every post.

[Deranged Rhino]