The Trump Shutdown

[Q-baby!]

2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I must be right. It's hard to imagine more than one gigantic asswhole with your special brand of bitchmudgeonry finding your way here. Then again you come from a "country" that was founded on asswholery.

Yes, Canada is known for that. Dumbass! 

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, BigMcD said:

Yes, Canada is known for that. Dumbass! 

I heard that one of your "country's" favorite pastimes is a game called "Drop the Soap".

[jrober38]

32 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

OR...................people are moving in his direction

 

Dem support has remained steady though. Until they start losing support or their position becomes unfavourable, they're not going to allow a wall to be built. 

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Dem support has remained steady though. Until they start losing support or their position becomes unfavourable, they're not going to allow a wall to be built. 

 

Hey...........a reasonable response (at least compared to the dolts above)

 

You are correct sir

 

 

[jrober38]

6 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

Hey...........a reasonable response (at least compared to the dolts above)

 

You are correct sir

 

 

 

My analysis is this - Dem support is essentially in lockstep with Trump's disapproval rating. 54% of people don't support the wall. 54% of people don't approve of Trump. Doesn't matter what he does, 54% of the country isn't going to support him just because they hate him so much.

 

On the flip side, Trump's support is growing because it's becoming more and more clear that the Dems are being unreasonable. They all voted for this in the past and are playing hardball, trying to stop Trump from delivering his signature campaign promise. Undecided people are beginning to side with Trump because for $5 billion there's no reason to not build the wall. 

 

Reality is that support isn't going to fall for the Dems. They're not gaining support, but they're not losing any either. Trump's best case is 46% support which would need every undecided person to side with him, which is unlikely. The Dems will hold out indefinitely because their base supports that stance, and the only way this is ending is with Trump declaring an emergency, triggering the Dems into calling Trump a tyrant who is going around Congress and possibly starting his impeachment. 

 

Just my two cents. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by jrober38

[Q-baby!]

13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I heard that one of your "country's" favorite pastimes is a game called "Drop the Soap".

Was it whispered in your ear? 

[B-Man]

MARK PENN: Voters want RESULTS not resistance from new Democratic majority.

Echoing Hillary Clinton’s ill-fated 2016 strategy, the Democratic leaders so far have fully planted a flag in simply opposing legislation, funding and appointments under the theory that putting lead boots on President Trump is the best way to get him out of office, even if the country is put on pause for another two years.

 

This is a fundamental mistake, and just as going overboard with Spartacus moments opposing the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh backfired and strengthened the Republicans in the Senate, this strategy too is likely to throw away the best opportunity Democrats had to build a lasting majority coalition by producing the results the Republicans failed to achieve.

 

The public ultimately was fed up with Paul Ryan, and under him Congress had about a 20 percent rating. He couldn’t get anything done, leading a fractured caucus to nowhere. He ultimately quit, along with 40 other Republicans. They literally abandoned the House, and suburban swing voters – voters who for a long time voted Republican – switched over to the Democratic Party. These voters were turned off by Trump, and frustrated by Ryan, because they fundamentally support progress and compromise. They are moderate, not liberal voters. They are not dancing in the hallway with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

 

 

What’s most interesting about Penn’s analysis is that he was Bill Clinton’s chief political strategist, and his opening move was to come out swinging against Hillary.

 

[Big Gun]

21 hours ago, Foxx said:

https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1084166119450042374

 

Nice chart

 

and

 

Remember when liberal hero said this to a standing ovation, or voting for the 2006 Secure Fence Act, oh the hypocrisy of the left!

 

 

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, pop gun said:

Nice chart

 

and

 

Remember when liberal hero said this to a standing ovation, or voting for the 2006 Secure Fence Act, oh the hypocrisy of the left!

 

 

He pushed for the 2006 Secure Fence Act in 1995? Man, Clinton was forward looking. Too bad (for her, not me) he couldn't predict Hillary's fiasco.

[Swill Merchant]

You know this is a losing effort on the part of the Dems because no one on the left wants to talk about it. The rank & file who rally behind the Dems on every move have been considerably less vocal about this.

 

The problem is they don't have any compelling principled argument. Everyone knows they can end this just as easily as the President, and the arguments against doing so are painfully weak.

 

As bad as the Kavanaugh hearing was for them, they were able to feign moral outrage and hide behind #metoo, knowing that it would be over before any real scrutiny made it past the politically engaged. They have neither luxury here. The longer this goes on the harder it is for them to justify their actions.

 

They're stuck in the catch-22 of claiming the shutdown is a catastrophe, while chosing to prolong the catastrophe for no compelling reason.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[boyst]

1 minute ago, Swill Merchant said:

You know this is a losing effort on the part of the Dems because no one on the left wants to talk about it. The rank & file who rally behind the Dems on every move have been considerably less vocal about this.

 

The problem is they don't have any compelling principled argument. Everyone knows they can end this just as easily as the President, and the arguments against doing so are painfully weak.

 

As bad as the Kavanaugh hearing was for them, they were able to feign moral outrage and hide behind #metoo, knowing that it would be over before any real scrutiny made it past the politically engaged. They have neither luxury here. The longer this goes on the harder it is for them to justify their actions.

 

They're stuck in the catch-22 of claiming the shutdown is a catastrophe, while chosing to prolong the catastrophe for no compelling reason.

And the left have to stand there in the positions as the right digs in every day for a new attack. And, while I hope I'm wrong, another crime by an illegal that makes national news is going to be another round of ammunition. And so on and so on.  It's just such a powerful stance and so well played politically.

 

What the GOP needs to do, IMO, is not line up shots at the left.  Just wait patiently and stop talking to the press and media. Instead they need to focus on opportunities to talk directly to their constituents on the left and break them up and ask what they'd like in an effort to actually...yano...govern.

[B-Man]

Nothing but POLITICS! Watching Ted Cruz LIGHT Chuck Schumer up over the govt. shutdown is a thing of BEAUTY (watch)

“This is now the second Schumer shutdown in a year. He forced one earlier because he wanted to see amnesty. He forced the second one because he wants to see open borders."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Swill Merchant]

32 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

And the left have to stand there in the positions as the right digs in every day for a new attack. And, while I hope I'm wrong, another crime by an illegal that makes national news is going to be another round of ammunition. And so on and so on.  It's just such a powerful stance and so well played politically.

 

What the GOP needs to do, IMO, is not line up shots at the left.  Just wait patiently and stop talking to the press and media. Instead they need to focus on opportunities to talk directly to their constituents on the left and break them up and ask what they'd like in an effort to actually...yano...govern.

The question though is how. It's hard to get any real news that's inconvenient to the Dems to their voters because the media outlets they consume filter it out.

 

It's a problem Rs have had for decades. The average leftist knew that Mitt Romney's wife had a horse and that he had a rooftop dog carrier, but didn't know anything about ACORN, Rezco, Rev. Wright, or Bill Ayers. They knew Romney was accused of bullying someone when he was a kid, but nothing of Obama's upbringing and past associations, both familial & personal.

 

That's the situation the right faces here. The only way to get the truth to the left & the disinterested is to have the President address the nation directly, hence the leftist push to have the media black him out.

 

They're never going to point out Schumer pitching for essentially the same thing a few years back. They're never going to ask him why he thinks fences work but a steel barrier won't. They're going to carry his water like the Democrat propagandists they are.

[Juror#8]

Trump is a liar. 

 

Let me just get that out the way. 

 

Im not sure that he lies any more than any other president. I think he does. But I don’t keep count of all his lies and pernicious liberties with the truth. I should caveat, though, the possibility of an admitted recency bias that I’d be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge. 

 

But yea, the dude is a liar and I don’t think a genuinely good person. 

 

There is also the weird phenomenon of things that Obama was pilloried for here, yet that seem to typify the Trump presidency, but that somehow gets ignored in this community because Trump has an (R) after his name.

 

It shocks the conscience.

 

But then it was the same flip for Bush —> Obama. 

 

That shocks the conscious too.

 

Be wary of people who are critical by party rather than by principle. 

 

They’re probably all wanted for preternatural acts. 

 

My dad never said that, but I wish he would have. 

 

My dad did say “it’s fine to bang chicks from the south but marry a northern girl; they age better.” 

 

To which I said: “I guess that makes sense.” 

 

To which he replied: “good talk son.” 

 

Anyway, I guess I just can’t get over the situational ethics thing, guys. Neither the world, nor politics, operates in absolutes. Most things aren’t all good or all bad. Yet in politics we damn near draw artificial battle lines which try to paint the picture as if that ethical paradigm exists. 

 

What gives? It’s strange.

 

Moreover, it’s sad. 

 

With all that said, I agree with Trump on the wall. Unlike B-man, I don’t agree with him because I’m supposed to because he has an (R) after his name. I agree with him because I think it’s the right thing to do for the country. I’m completely an independent. I’ve voted for Obama and Romney, Bush 2, Wesley Clark, and Kasich. With that complete political independence in mind, I think a border wall is practical, thoughtful, important, and responsible. 

 

And that’s why im willing to pay for it myself. 

 

If most of America feels like me, then create bonds that we can buy, as countrymen and as patriots, to fund the wall. Similar to war bonds of yesteryear, give Americans a chance to contribute to the integrity of our own domestic security by purchasing a $25 bond. It’s non-partisan and it’s ultra-***** American. It doesn’t shut down ***** and it’s the kind of referendum that Trump can use to sail to a second term if the preponderance agrees with him. 

 

We did it in Ww2.

 

We might have done it before that too. 

 

I thought about the bond thing after watching a Ken Burns Ww2 documentary on Netflix recently. Watch it. It’s fascinating. Look what Britain did to subsidize their war effort. 

 

Thats what countrymen do. 

 

If there really is a national emergency, we should do what we do. Create bonds and bring the country together in a way that’s inclusive and actionable. Go in your pockets and kick it a nickel. 

 

I will. 

 

Will you? 

 

But I somehow think that won’t happen. 

 

Because I think people would prefer to complain about the same thing that they’d compliment if their affiliated party did it ... or didn’t. 

 

The ***** up paradox of the American political psyche. Played out day in and day ***** out while nothing gets done but more waiting for the next party to take over and the cadence of situational ethic amongst us wilderbeasts to flip. 

 

You’re all ***** pieces of *****. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Juror#8

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, Juror#8 said:

 

You’re all ***** pieces of *****. 

 

 

 

How can I go on ?

 

 

 

 

Only Juror #3 ( his actual #)  could post that all Americans should come together, and end it with a silly, mistaken rant against the people he is addressing.

 

 

great stuff.

 

 

.

 

[Juror#8]

14 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

How can I go on ?

 

 

 

 

Only Juror #3 ( his actual #)  could post that all Americans should come together, and end it with a silly, mistaken rant against the people he is addressing.

 

 

great stuff.

 

 

.

 

 

You haven’t been here long enough to understand my levity. 

 

I forgive you for that. 

 

I want to call you intellectually delayed but also build a wall.

 

I want to insult and love you.

 

I want to insult you you because I love you.

 

I’d like for the country to give money to do something for the domestic welfare. As the country, in tandem, is pulling money out of their collective pockets, singing the anthem and waving the flag, I want the song to conclude with everyone, in unison, calling you a shiiiit-stained kuntbiatch.  

 

Giving you the benefit of something ... anything ... the point still stands that - though I think you’re probably a good ***** dude in truth - you’re also an inveterate water-carrier for any person - criminal or otherwise - who calls themselves a “republican.” 

 

You could be better but you choose to be less.

 

And that’s ok by me, kuntbiatch. 

 

-Juror#20

Edited January 14, 2019 by Juror#8

[Deranged Rhino]

14 minutes ago, Juror#8 said:

Trump is a liar. 

 

Let me just get that out the way. 

 

Im not sure that he lies any more than any other president. I think he does. But I don’t keep count of all his lies and pernicious liberties with the truth. I should caveat, though, the possibility of an admitted recency bias that I’d be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge. 

 

W Bush lied about WMD... the results were three wars, fought on a credit card, and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

W Bush lied about the purpose of the Patriot Act... the results were a stripping away of bedrock civil liberties.  

 

Obama lied about ending mass surveillance... the results were an expansion of executive power, a doubling in size of the FISC, and illegal spying on US citizens, journalists, and political opponents and the continued decay of our right to privacy, speech, and due process. 

Obama lied about drone strikes... the results were thousands of deaths, including collateral damage to innocents. 

Obama lied about red lines... the result was million+ dead in Syria. 

 

Trump's "lies" are sales pitches... the results so far is that people have had their feelings hurt. 

 

One of these is not like the others.  

[boyst]

33 minutes ago, Juror#8 said:

Trump is a liar. 

 

Let me just get that out the way. 

 

Im not sure that he lies any more than any other president. I think he does. But I don’t keep count of all his lies and pernicious liberties with the truth. I should caveat, though, the possibility of an admitted recency bias that I’d be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge. 

 

But yea, the dude is a liar and I don’t think a genuinely good person. 

 

There is also the weird phenomenon of things that Obama was pilloried for here, yet that seem to typify the Trump presidency, but that somehow gets ignored in this community because Trump has an (R) after his name.

 

It shocks the conscience.

 

But then it was the same flip for Bush —> Obama. 

 

That shocks the conscious too.

 

Be wary of people who are critical by party rather than by principle. 

 

They’re probably all wanted for preternatural acts. 

 

My dad never said that, but I wish he would have. 

 

My dad did say “it’s fine to bang chicks from the south but marry a northern girl; they age better.” 

 

To which I said: “I guess that makes sense.” 

 

To which he replied: “good talk son.” 

 

Anyway, I guess I just can’t get over the situational ethics thing, guys. Neither the world, nor politics, operates in absolutes. Most things aren’t all good or all bad. Yet in politics we damn near draw artificial battle lines which try to paint the picture as if that ethical paradigm exists. 

 

What gives? It’s strange.

 

Moreover, it’s sad. 

 

With all that said, I agree with Trump on the wall. Unlike B-man, I don’t agree with him because I’m supposed to because he has an (R) after his name. I agree with him because I think it’s the right thing to do for the country. I’m completely an independent. I’ve voted for Obama and Romney, Bush 2, Wesley Clark, and Kasich. With that complete political independence in mind, I think a border wall is practical, thoughtful, important, and responsible. 

 

And that’s why im willing to pay for it myself. 

 

If most of America feels like me, then create bonds that we can buy, as countrymen and as patriots, to fund the wall. Similar to war bonds of yesteryear, give Americans a chance to contribute to the integrity of our own domestic security by purchasing a $25 bond. It’s non-partisan and it’s ultra-***** American. It doesn’t shut down ***** and it’s the kind of referendum that Trump can use to sail to a second term if the preponderance agrees with him. 

 

We did it in Ww2.

 

We might have done it before that too. 

 

I thought about the bond thing after watching a Ken Burns Ww2 documentary on Netflix recently. Watch it. It’s fascinating. Look what Britain did to subsidize their war effort. 

 

Thats what countrymen do. 

 

If there really is a national emergency, we should do what we do. Create bonds and bring the country together in a way that’s inclusive and actionable. Go in your pockets and kick it a nickel. 

 

I will. 

 

Will you? 

 

But I somehow think that won’t happen. 

 

Because I think people would prefer to complain about the same thing that they’d compliment if their affiliated party did it ... or didn’t. 

 

The ***** up paradox of the American political psyche. Played out day in and day ***** out while nothing gets done but more waiting for the next party to take over and the cadence of situational ethic amongst us wilderbeasts to flip. 

 

You’re all ***** pieces of *****. 

Thurmal get a new screen name????

[Juror#8]

45 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

W Bush lied about WMD... the results were three wars, fought on a credit card, and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

W Bush lied about the purpose of the Patriot Act... the results were a stripping away of bedrock civil liberties.  

 

Obama lied about ending mass surveillance... the results were an expansion of executive power, a doubling in size of the FISC, and illegal spying on US citizens, journalists, and political opponents and the continued decay of our right to privacy, speech, and due process. 

Obama lied about drone strikes... the results were thousands of deaths, including collateral damage to innocents. 

Obama lied about red lines... the result was million+ dead in Syria. 

 

Trump's "lies" are sales pitches... the results so far is that people have had their feelings hurt. 

 

One of these is not like the others.  

 

Gotcha. 

 

So let’s first just assume that everything that you’re saying is truth. 

 

Assumption #1 

 

Then let’s say that even the things that you posit, that are the subject of any dispute, you are spot on without condition, qualification, context, or uncertainty. 

 

Assumption #2. 

 

So stipulating to both, not out of agreement, but just to move this bull#### along, here is what you’re telling me ... 

 

Basically Trump is comparatively better because the lies he’s been caught in are smaller in dispositional scope. Continuing on (and you correct me if I’m wrong) it appears that you’re contending that Trump is characteristically better because his two years (so far) of frequent lies of smaller, simply agitating, scope are less impactful than a handful of big lies that two others had 8 years to ***** around and manufacture and that we’ve had many more years to uncover. 

 

So therefore:

 

1.  What unites liars as scourges isn’t their intentional departure from the truth which is designed to mislead for some gain, but the subject matter that the lie is about. 

 

2. Lying isn’t the flaw (or bad) in and of itself. 

 

I don’t know what to say about that. I hope I'm

misreading/misunderstanding your post and that you’re not that ethically suspect.

 

Oh yea, you also seem to think year-2 Obama and year-8 Obama were treated differently here. Your thesis really relies on it.

 

Thats a problem and a flaw that fundamentally fractures the point that you’re trying to get across. 

 

Obama was treated like ***** from the word ‘go’ here. He wasn’t given the same “flexibility” that Trump was. It was everything from his birth certificate, to some vacations, to what Michelle wore to dinner. He was a liar about where he was born, and his capacity to be president. He wasn’t liar about being born in Kenya. 

 

Month 5 or so. No benefit or any doubt. 

 

And we’re talking about some of the same folks who carry Trump’s water. 

 

Go back an reconcile that with what I said in my firstborn post. Let that shed some light and inform what should be a different approach angle for your response. 

 

Go ahead. Look it up. Do some archival deep diving. 

 

Though Bman and his vacuousness wasn’t here then, it’s all archived. Since you enjoy research, why don’t you ‘apples to apples’ your thesis and look back for some entertaining comparison and contrasts. 

 

Its a real hoot. 

 

But you probably won’t. And that’s ok too. 

 

Or did you really mean to come at me by comparing 2 years of Trump lies to 8 years of Obama lies outside that context of how one was covered here relative to the other at [relatively] equal points in their presidency. 

 

Did you really need false equivalency to make that point and use that emoji? 

 

Come on Rhino ...

Edited January 14, 2019 by Juror#8