The Trump Shutdown

[Koko78]

8 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

of course not claiming anything about one week, just busting and you know it.

 

But to claim federal workers should somehow live a more austure life and save more and etc than the average American I think is not a great argument. 

 

That wasn't my argument. My argument is that if they can't prepare for a few week shutdown with ~10 months notice, they're ***** idiots.

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Who is holding up the signing? 

both parties..

 

Trump said he would sign the resolution then backed out and changed the terms when his tv , radio, and far right went nuts.

 

Dems are being stubborn cause of Trump

 

Both are doing for political wins with their base

 

neither is doing over a strong belief one or another that the wall will be built after this fight.

 

S

[DC Tom]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

Hmmm not sure why you think that, but it is possible. Looking at the cases from 1970- today, they are indeed in the southwest.... and can you tell me where illegals generally come over to the US? 

 

I think that because it's not just possible, it's a well-documented truth.  Plague came over to the West Coast in the early 1900s in Norwegian rats on steamships from the Orient.  It moved in to the native rodent populations from there.  For the past 100 years, it's been endemic to the southwest, with a low, steady rate of zoonotic infection.

 

And people don't carry bubonic plague.  It's transmitted by fleas, from rodents, but not by humans (or by fleas from humans).  Flea bites rat, flea bites person, person gets plague.  But flea bites human bubonic plague victim, flea bites rat, rat does not get plague.  Human migration across a border does not and cannot transmit bubonic plague.  Rodent migration can...but we're not talking about undocumented chipmunks, are we?

 

And yes, people can carry and transmit pneumonic plague...but we're not talking about that either.  We don't have pneumonic plague cases.

[plenzmd1]

2 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

That wasn't my argument. My argument is that if they can't prepare for a few week shutdown with ~10 months notice, they're ***** idiots.

and my argument is almost 80% of the US population could not plan for it. Less than 80% of people in this country have more than $1000 to plan for emergencies and possible loss of income..i agree idiots, but it is not contained to federal workers

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

both parties..

 

Trump said he would sign the resolution then backed out and changed the terms when his tv , radio, and far right went nuts.

 

Dems are being stubborn cause of Trump

 

Both are doing for political wins with their base

 

neither is doing over a strong belief one or another that the wall will be built after this fight.

 

S

 

Did he ever have a resolution to sign?  I don't recall anything ever getting to the Senate floor for a vote.

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

Did he ever have a resolution to sign?  I don't recall anything ever getting to the Senate floor for a vote.

no, he did not. That was the scramble by the Republicans to reword the resolution and increase the funding from $1.8 Bto $5B.

[DC Tom]

4 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

no, he did not. That was the scramble by the Republicans to reword the resolution and increase the funding from $1.8 Bto $5B.

 

Then it really doesn't matter if he said he'd sign it.  "I'll sign something that doesn't exist" isn't a credible statement; criticizing him for it isn't a credible criticism.

[Buffalo_Gal]

8 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I think that because it's not just possible, it's a well-documented truth.  Plague came over to the West Coast in the early 1900s in Norwegian rats on steamships from the Orient.  It moved in to the native rodent populations from there.  For the past 100 years, it's been endemic to the southwest, with a low, steady rate of zoonotic infection.

 

And people don't carry bubonic plague.  It's transmitted by fleas, from rodents, but not by humans (or by fleas from humans).  Flea bites rat, flea bites person, person gets plague.  But flea bites human bubonic plague victim, flea bites rat, rat does not get plague.  Human migration across a border does not and cannot transmit bubonic plague.  Rodent migration can...but we're not talking about undocumented chipmunks, are we?

 

And yes, people can carry and transmit pneumonic plague...but we're not talking about that either.  We don't have pneumonic plague cases.

Yes, the prairie dogs are the sw culprits or, as you said, people to people carrying the fleas and getting flea-bitten. The last BP epidemic was in 1924.  

[DC Tom]

Just now, Buffalo_Gal said:

Yes, the prairie dogs are the sw culprits or, as you said, people to people carrying the fleas and getting flea-bitten. The last BP epidemic was in 1924.  

 

No, there is no person-to-person transmission of Y.Pestis via fleas.  There is no person-to-anything transmission of Y.Pestis via fleas.  People are not a reservoir for bubonic plague.  Fleas do not pick up Y.Pestis from biting people.  Plague is not malaria.

 

It also has nothing to do with anti-vaccination tards.  There's no publicly available vaccination for plague.   

[plenzmd1]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Then it really doesn't matter if he said he'd sign it.  "I'll sign something that doesn't exist" isn't a credible statement; criticizing him for it isn't a credible criticism.

umm, I would debate you on that. The resolution had not been voted on yet, but as I understand it( and I could be wrong) the numbers in terms of border funding had been agreed to... the $1.8B for " border enforcement"( not a wall) had been agreed to by both parties and Trump admin had said he would sign. Then Trump reversed course after widespread criticism from his most vocal and seen/followed base ...and he said no...I will not sign without the wall.

 

As mentioned.. I would actually be signing his praises if he just said we will fight for a fully funded wall....but it's not about building a wall and keeping the US safe.. its about placating his base. As it is for the other side.

 

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

No, there is no person-to-person transmission of Y.Pestis via fleas.  There is no person-to-anything transmission of Y.Pestis via fleas.  People are not a reservoir for bubonic plague.  Fleas do not pick up Y.Pestis from biting people.  Plague is not malaria.

 

It also has nothing to do with anti-vaccination tards.  There's no publicly available vaccination for plague.   

Maybe we are talking over one another? Fleas bite people to transmit BP.  Carrying the fleas can cause the plague. You are saying humans cannot transport fleas. I am saying humans can transport fleas (I think that is what you are saying, and I think that is what I am saying.... although right now I am plenty confused - although I also think you are saying that there are different types of plague, and I am mashing them into one type).  I'll leave it alone for now, as I am now thoroughly confuzzled. 

Note: as far as the anti-vaxxing that was articles, not me. ? 

[DC Tom]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Maybe we are talking over one another? Fleas bite people to transmit BP.  Carrying the fleas can cause the plague. You are saying humans cannot transport fleas.

 

No, I'm saying fleas cannot transport plague from humans to anything else.  The flea is a one-way vector, from rodent to human.  There is no human-to-human transmission of bubonic plague via flea, for the very simple reason that Y.Pestis infects the human lympahtic system, not blood, and fleas don't consume lymph.

 

And yes, there are different types of plague - bubonic, septicimic, and pneumonic.  Only pneumonic is transmissible person-to-person.

Edited December 27, 2018 by DC Tom

[3rdnlng]

12 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

umm, I would debate you on that. The resolution had not been voted on yet, but as I understand it( and I could be wrong) the numbers in terms of border funding had been agreed to... the $1.8B for " border enforcement"( not a wall) had been agreed to by both parties and Trump admin had said he would sign. Then Trump reversed course after widespread criticism from his most vocal and seen/followed base ...and he said no...I will not sign without the wall.

 

As mentioned.. I would actually be signing his praises if he just said we will fight for a fully funded wall....but it's not about building a wall and keeping the US safe.. its about placating his base. As it is for the other side.

 

 

Trump campaigned on a wall and that wall is part of what got him elected. He knows that keeping this promise is important to his voters. He also believes that it is the right thing to do. The dems know that building a wall is the right thing to do evidenced by their prior statements, but Nancy can't support any money for the wall until she gets the speakership and since a bill already passed in the House, Chuck Schumer is the only one that can stop a bill getting passed prior to 1-3-19.

 

Now, who is being disingenuous here?

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

and my argument is almost 80% of the US population could not plan for it. Less than 80% of people in this country have more than $1000 to plan for emergencies and possible loss of income..i agree idiots, but it is not contained to federal workers

 

Again, you are comparing apples to oranges and calling the kumquats. You can't quote a study that claims 80% of the country as a whole are financial idiots and conflate that to 80% of federal workers. Are there going to be some sob stories about how Orange Man Bad? Sure. They're called morons.

 

Is 80% (of the ~25%) of the affected federal workforce going to be financially ruined by having to wait a few weeks to get their retro money? I doubt it. This isn't exactly the first time the government has shut down. If they don't plan, they're stupid. If they claim they can't afford it, I'd really like to see their finances (and then call them idiots.)

[DC Tom]

10 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Again, you are comparing apples to oranges and calling the kumquats. You can't quote a study that claims 80% of the country as a whole are financial idiots and conflate that to 80% of federal workers. Are there going to be some sob stories about how Orange Man Bad? Sure. They're called morons.

 

Is 80% (of the ~25%) of the affected federal workforce going to be financially ruined by having to wait a few weeks to get their retro money? I doubt it. This isn't exactly the first time the government has shut down. If they don't plan, they're stupid. If they claim they can't afford it, I'd really like to see their finances (and then call them idiots.)

 

He's also confusing "could not" and "have not."  

[keepthefaith]

47 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Trump campaigned on a wall and that wall is part of what got him elected. He knows that keeping this promise is important to his voters. He also believes that it is the right thing to do. The dems know that building a wall is the right thing to do evidenced by their prior statements, but Nancy can't support any money for the wall until she gets the speakership and since a bill already passed in the House, Chuck Schumer is the only one that can stop a bill getting passed prior to 1-3-19.

 

Now, who is being disingenuous here?

 

Call this wishful thinking on my part but the right thing to do would be for Trump to have had his administration do a study on illegal immigration and then present the problem and solutions to the American People with facts, numbers, etc.  That presentation should then include the various steps needed to achieve the goal to include cooperation from Mexico and other central American countries.  Visa violations and other forms of illegal entry or stay to be addressed since that's half the problem.  Further the presentation should point out our poorly crafted laws, how they are abused and how to fix them.  By doing this he sells border security to the people and puts pressure on Congress to enact the solutions.  He should also meet with the new Mexican pres and others in the region (after all Mexico has to pay for any barrier ). 

 

In the end if something gets done to dramatically reduce illegal entry/stays and the cluster you know what of a legal system is fixed and Mexico in some way helps at the border - most people should be happy and the term "wall" is defined as a collection of changes that fixes the problem.  This might include a physical barrier. 

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Again, you are comparing apples to oranges and calling the kumquats. You can't quote a study that claims 80% of the country as a whole are financial idiots and conflate that to 80% of federal workers. Are there going to be some sob stories about how Orange Man Bad? Sure. They're called morons.

 

Is 80% (of the ~25%) of the affected federal workforce going to be financially ruined by having to wait a few weeks to get their retro money? I doubt it. This isn't exactly the first time the government has shut down. If they don't plan, they're stupid. If they claim they can't afford it, I'd really like to see their finances (and then call them idiots.)

 

In this game of chicken, Trump I believe will blink.  There will be no pressure on Dems. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by keepthefaith

[IDBillzFan]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Ridiculous.  Leave your bubble.

 

Is there a reason you always pop over here, write something stupid, and then disappear for a month or two? Are you bored? Are you scared? Are you worried? 

 

What value do you think you bring to the discussion?

 

Please elaborate.

 

We'll wait.

 

[Q-baby!]

32 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

Is there a reason you always pop over here, write something stupid, and then disappear for a month or two? Are you bored? Are you scared? Are you worried? 

 

What value do you think you bring to the discussion?

 

Please elaborate.

 

We'll wait.

 

Oh look! Another pretentious dick. 

 

You forgot “in your own words.” And maybe even a word count?

 

You clowns are ***** hilarious! 

[plenzmd1]

 

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

He's also confusing "could not" and "have not."  

I don't believe I used the words "could not" when it comes to most people, not saving..just they cannot handle the sudden interruption of paychecks.  not just federal workers not having saved for the proverbial rainy day.

 

However, They" have not" saved, and therefore "cannot" weather interruption of their paychecks without some consequences.

 

 

My only argument is that stupidity is not limited to  federal government workers, it is rampant across all workers

 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by plenzmd1

[DC Tom]

8 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

Is there a reason you always pop over here, write something stupid, and then disappear for a month or two? Are you bored? Are you scared? Are you worried? 

 

What value do you think you bring to the discussion?

 

Please elaborate.

 

We'll wait.

 

 

Maybe it just takes him a month or two to come up with a post that stupid...