The Trump Shutdown

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

5 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

USACE?

 

US Asian Carp Enforcement?

What is it with this guy and fish? I feel like I'm dealing with Luca  Brazzi here. 

[plenzmd1]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The second paragraph just isn't true or borne out in my posts. I encourage other opinions and run towards them to challenge my own. 

 

The truth is millions are unaware of the programming they're under. I was too until I started doing my own digging. There are powerful forces working to control the battlefield of our public consciousness. Not all of it can be seen in the open - but because others are unaware of it does not mean it doesn't exist. 

 

Mockingbird is real. 

MkUltra is real. 

 

I agree they were real..and I agree that the government has repeatedly lied to the citizenry ..I also can form opinions and worldviews that include those two realizations and come to different conclusions than you ..that does not mean I am programmed. And maybe I misconstrue your use of that word(programmed), but you have used it repeatedly just in the last 6 posts in this thread

[3rdnlng]

14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Yes. I was generalizing in that statement - which was a response to another generalization. 

 

We we are at war. It's not being fought with bullets (for the most part) but with lies and spin emanating from sources we are told to trust. 

 

For evidence, go back through the DOJ thread. I came onto this path of my own volition which had nothing to do with Trump or politics. I presented evidence almost two years ago now that we were being deliberately mislead by the powers that be and in return was called every name in the book by all sides. I was called a Putin supporter, a fascist, a liar - all for sharing truth backed by evidence. 

 

Trump is a threat to the establishment that has enslaved us all for our entire lives - and they're using every manner of information warfare to make him toxic. My interest wasn't in defending trump - but figuring out why. Once I did, everything else became clear. 

Just think, all of us doubters sharpened your investigative skills to the point of you convincing us. You didn't prove your theories, somebody else did. It was us.

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I agree they were real..and I agree that the government has repeatedly lied to the citizenry ..I also can form opinions and worldviews that include those two realizations and come to different conclusions than you ..that does not mean I am programmed. And maybe I misconstrue your use of that word(programmed), but you have used it repeatedly just in the last 6 posts in this thread

 

Yes. As a generalization it's accurate. As a specific, it usually is not. 

 

And mockingbird and ultra ARE still real (not past tense). They were not shuttered in the 70s, they were renamed but now are more potent. 

[DC Tom]

4 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Just think, all of us doubters sharpened your investigative skills to the point of you convincing us. You didn't prove your theories, somebody else did. It was us.

 

That's the way it usually works.  Any theory that can't face skepticism isn't worth a bucket of warm *****.  (See: Warming, Global.)

[plenzmd1]

5 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I thought you were smarter than this. I believe in MAGA but that doesn't make me think that Mexico was going to send us a check for a wall. All along I assumed that Trump would claim tariffs or a new trade deal would be what Trump claimed as Mexico paying for the wall. Do I believe Trump didn't do Stormy? Hell no, but it just doesn't matter to me. The things that matter to me are SCOTUS nominees, getting our country back from the politicians and Deep State, the economy and security (military and the wall).

 

I don't agree with Trump on everything but I do believe that he cares about this country and wants it returned to a true republic. People with TDS just hate Trump and would and do criticize him for everything he does.

 

my beef with yall is the generalizations you make upon anyone who disagrees with Trump. I believe Trump does not care about the country, only wants what is best for him and his interests, and jeopardizes our security and economy by his actions and words and seeming admiration for autocrats.

 

You may be right, I may be right, either way, does not mean you, or I, have been programmed.  Extremes on both sides are whacked. 

 

And not to get too wrapped on Mexico would pay for the wall thing through tariffs, but please show me anywhere this was espoused as an idea anywhere on this board, or anywhere for that matter, pre-2018.I believe you when you say you never thought Mexico would pay for the wall..i don't believe when you say all along you believed he meant tariffs would pay. That is revisionist history in my mind, but welcome being proved wrong

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

That's the way it usually works.  Any theory that can't face skepticism isn't worth a bucket of warm *****.  (See: Warming, Global.)

 

Thats why PPP is awesome for those willing to honestly present their opinions and head out others. 

 

That's something I think I've always demonstrated a willingness to do down here, and why I'm confused by your statement Plenz. You're conflating generalities with specifics. 

[3rdnlng]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

That's the way it usually works.  Any theory that can't face skepticism isn't worth a bucket of warm *****.  (See: Warming, Global.)

While I was busting Greg's balls, I agree with you. He had to stand in the ring and take on all comers. I wouldn't have had his patience to repeatedly explain his theories to all of the newbies though. He's still getting questioned by people like that ***** Canuck McWeasle.

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

You may be right, I may be right, either way, does not mean you, or I, have been programmed.  Extremes on both sides are whacked. 

 

 

 

The programming "orange man bad" is real and has had a demonstrable effect on the discourse. That doesn't mean every opinion you (or anyone) have is programmed at all. 

 

Look at the way the pull out in Syria or Mattis was covered or talked about in independent or left leaning sources. Two years ago Trump was surrounding himself with generals and going to start a war on multiple fronts because he was a madman... The same people are now arguing that pulling out of Syria and replacing Mattis are signs Trump has lost his way. 

 

In years past you could count on the media and msm to do that sort of about face - but today, because trump has been painted and pushed as hitler for two years - otherwise sane thinking people end up parroting those talking points while claiming they're original thoughts. 

 

Thats programming. It's real and in abundant supply because for once it's not one side of the aisle doing it - but both the establishment DNC and GOP leading the charge. 

[Q-baby!]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The programming "orange man bad" is real and has had a demonstrable effect on the discourse. That doesn't mean every opinion you (or anyone) have is programmed at all. 

 

Look at the way the pull out in Syria or Mattis was covered or talked about in independent or left leaning sources. Two years ago Trump was surrounding himself with generals and going to start a war on multiple fronts because he was a madman... The same people are now arguing that pulling out of Syria and replacing Mattis are signs Trump has lost his way. 

 

In years past you could count on the media and msm to do that sort of about face - but today, because trump has been painted and pushed as hitler for two years - otherwise sane thinking people end up parroting those talking points while claiming they're original thoughts. 

 

Thats programming. It's real and in abundant supply because for once it's not one side of the aisle doing it - but both the establishment DNC and GOP leading the charge. 

I wasn’t around for all your battles with people over your theories, but I can understand why they would challenge you. You do kinda sound batschit crazy! 

[plenzmd1]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Thats why PPP is awesome for those willing to honestly present their opinions and head out others. 

 

That's something I think I've always demonstrated a willingness to do down here, and why I'm confused by your statement Plenz. You're conflating generalities with specifics. 

The perception i have, (and it may not be reality but perception is reality no?), is that if someone disagrees with Trump, or leans liberal, or does not believe in the deep state..they have been programmed by the MSM...and they are lemmings and just plain dolts. not just by you, but you do use the terms quite a bit throughout your posts. 

 

It is  language like that that inhibits meaningful conversation and exchange of ideas in my mind..

[3rdnlng]

15 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

my beef with yall is the generalizations you make upon anyone who disagrees with Trump. I believe Trump does not care about the country, only wants what is best for him and his interests, and jeopardizes our security and economy by his actions and words and seeming admiration for autocrats.

 

You may be right, I may be right, either way, does not mean you, or I, have been programmed.  Extremes on both sides are whacked. 

 

And not to get too wrapped on Mexico would pay for the wall thing through tariffs, but please show me anywhere this was espoused as an idea anywhere on this board, or anywhere for that matter, pre-2018.I believe you when you say you never thought Mexico would pay for the wall..i don't believe when you say all along you believed he meant tariffs would pay. That is revisionist history in my mind, but welcome being proved wrong

There are several of us who indicated over the last year or two that taking Trump literally was most likely a mistake. Take this for example:

 

                   The Trump Shutdown

Buffalo_Gal replied to WhitewalkerInPhilly's topic in Politics, Polls, and Pundits

...As far asMexico would pay... there are many ways to "pay" for something. A direct hand-off of money.Tariffs . Less purchasing of goods, etc., etc. Many people take the word "pay" as a literal "I'm handing over $25B in cash." And, maybe that is the way Trump originally meant it. Myself? I think...

[Deranged Rhino]

4 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

The perception i have, (and it may not be reality but perception is reality no?), is that if someone disagrees with Trump, or leans liberal, or does not believe in the deep state..they have been programmed by the MSM...and they are lemmings and just plain dolts. not just by you, but you do use the terms quite a bit throughout your posts. 

 

It is  language like that that inhibits meaningful conversation and exchange of ideas in my mind..

 

I don't pretend to speak for others. Only myself. That's why I keep saying that description does not fit me or my work down here - but I don't deny it happens. 

 

I didnt vote for Trump. I'm not a conservative or a republican. I value independent thinking and those who are able to discuss and entertain ideas without necessary believing in them. 

 

That doesn't mean I won't point out the programming when it rears its head, I do and will. But it's not rooted in "if it's not my opinion it must be programming", it's used in specific instances to describe a general pattern (or posters who have proven they are programmed beyond repair). That's never been you in my mind. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Deranged Rhino

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, BigMcD said:

I wasn’t around for all your battles with people over your theories, but I can understand why they would challenge you. You do kinda sound batschit crazy! 

 

Because he is batshit crazy.

 

Doesn't make him wrong, though.

[plenzmd1]

8 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The programming "orange man bad" is real and has had a demonstrable effect on the discourse. That doesn't mean every opinion you (or anyone) have is programmed at all. 

 

Look at the way the pull out in Syria or Mattis was covered or talked about in independent or left leaning sources. Two years ago Trump was surrounding himself with generals and going to start a war on multiple fronts because he was a madman... The same people are now arguing that pulling out of Syria and replacing Mattis are signs Trump has lost his way. 

 

In years past you could count on the media and msm to do that sort of about face - but today, because trump has been painted and pushed as hitler for two years - otherwise sane thinking people end up parroting those talking points while claiming they're original thoughts. 

 

Thats programming. It's real and in abundant supply because for once it's not one side of the aisle doing it - but both the establishment DNC and GOP leading the charge. 

See..maybe i misunderstood what you mean by "programming". If we are talking whats on TV..than we are in complete, 100% agreement. But to think that people can not form independent thoughts cause MSNBC is airing some asinine story..that's where we disagree.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, plenzmd1 said:

See..maybe i misunderstood what you mean by "programming". If we are talking whats on TV..than we are in complete, 100% agreement. But to think that people can not form independent thoughts cause MSNBC is airing some asinine story..that's where we disagree.

 

They can and do. But they also often succumb to the talking points of the day in order to fit in. Especially when that talking point is being pushed by not just one party or ideology but both (all). 

 

This isn't about trump or right v left, conservative v liberal. It's about the establishment vs the people. 

 

Im firmly on the side of the people. 

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

See..maybe i misunderstood what you mean by "programming". If we are talking whats on TV..than we are in complete, 100% agreement. But to think that people can not form independent thoughts cause MSNBC is airing some asinine story..that's where we disagree.

 

Point of note: I'm accused of being a Fox News watcher all the ***** time because I form independent thoughts based solely on my own personal knowledge and research that coincidentally agree with what's being said on Fox by some talking head I couldn't pick out of a line-up.

 

Many people believe it's impossible for the other side to think for themselves.  

[plenzmd1]

4 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

There are several of us who indicated over the last year or two that taking Trump literally was most likely a mistake. Take this for example:

 

                   The Trump Shutdown

Buffalo_Gal replied to WhitewalkerInPhilly's topic in Politics, Polls, and Pundits

...As far asMexico would pay... there are many ways to "pay" for something. A direct hand-off of money.Tariffs . Less purchasing of goods, etc., etc. Many people take the word "pay" as a literal "I'm handing over $25B in cash." And, maybe that is the way Trump originally meant it. Myself? I think...

I am not sure when that post was made, but i think it is in this thread.I was referring to any positing that thought pre-2018. Listen , i think the majority of the Trump supporters on this board position during the campaign was "he wants to build a wall, I do too. Mexico will never pay for it, but he will fight for it and I like that" .

 

I can respect that, and have no issues with it. But to claim now he really meant pay through it in tariffs, show me anywhere he indicated that or anyone else indicated that was what he" really" meant.

4 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Point of note: I'm accused of being a Fox News watcher all the ***** time because I form independent thoughts based solely on my own personal knowledge and research that coincidentally agree with what's being said on Fox by some talking head I couldn't pick out of a line-up.

 

Many people believe it's impossible for the other side to think for themselves.  

thank you for consolidating my thought into a nice clear post..much better than I did in 10 posts?

[TakeYouToTasker]

5 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

See..maybe i misunderstood what you mean by "programming". If we are talking whats on TV..than we are in complete, 100% agreement. But to think that people can not form independent thoughts cause MSNBC is airing some asinine story..that's where we disagree.

 

There's a very important book that I've recommended here before, and is required reading for anyone seeking to understand the world we live in, and how we are continuously purposefully manipulated by the power structures we are told to trust.

 

Daniel Boorstin's The Image 

 

I suggest reading it.

[3rdnlng]

17 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I am not sure when that post was made, but i think it is in this thread.I was referring to any positing that thought pre-2018. Listen , i think the majority of the Trump supporters on this board position during the campaign was "he wants to build a wall, I do too. Mexico will never pay for it, but he will fight for it and I like that" .

 

I can respect that, and have no issues with it. But to claim now he really meant pay through it in tariffs, show me anywhere he indicated that or anyone else indicated that was what he" really" meant.

 

I know we had some different references to alternate ways for Mexico to pay for the wall. I also know that none of us ever thought that Mexico would write a check to the USA. This may have gone on back as far as 2016 campaign. It's not worth the time to search it any further.