The Trump Shutdown

[Buffalo_Gal]

17 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

To which folks like me would reply why is the President willing to take less than $5B if it is so critical to the safety of the US? 

 

This is a pure political fight..has nothing to so with a wall or safety of the US..$3B ain't building even a 10th of the wall.

 

Call a spade a spade and blame both parties.

"Gotta start somewhere" would be my response. 

A better question is why the R House didn't give him more money 2 years ago?

[DC Tom]

10 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

You gotta be kidding.  This is an indictment on how people have been raised.

 

She ain't the greatest thing sliced bread, but not totally devoid of a moral compass like Trump is.

 

 

  Yes, she is.  

[B-Man]

11 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

 

 

She ain't the greatest thing sliced bread, but not totally devoid of a moral compass like Trump is.

 

I honestly think people realized they made a mistake by electing (albeit the minority) the true criminal. They just can't come to grips with owning it in public.

 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

  Yes, she is.  

I respectfully disagree, you are simply wrong.  Trump's populist views speak to my best self-interest yet, I reject them on moral grounds. Bizarre, I know, look who we had to choose from... go figure.

 

Maintaining the status quo until 2020 was the moral choice. And in reality, maintaining the status quo would have given the systems less volatility, corruption, and scandal.

 

 

4 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

You are fueled by emotion, paranoia and self-interest.

 

Morally, the status quo was the lesser of the evil.

[DC Tom]

6 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Morally, the status quo was the lesser of the evil.

 

This is a very conservative viewpoint... 

[Foxx]

12 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

... Uh, last time I looked there was a dangerous demagogue pushing conspiracy in the capacity as the POTUS.

honest question... which do you think is a bigger conspiracy the one fostered by the MSM, that being Russian Collusion or whatever conspiracy it is you are deeming the President to be pushing? after two years of zero evidence of the Russian Collusion  by Trumpand even greater evidence of Democrat collusion, i am curious about this echo chamber you constantly refer to but seem to be oblivious of.

 

12 hours ago, BigMcD said:

I have been around here longer than you! 

so... your saying this is a sock puppet account. they have a word for that, it is called coward.

[ExiledInIllinois]

24 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

This is a very conservative viewpoint... 

Yes it is!

[Uncle Joe]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I like @Doc Brown and don't really feel he needs to say anything about the trolls.  

BTW, I blocked the troll too... s/he/x  s/he/it wasn't even trying, just spewing stupid insults. 

<snip>

 

Has a nicer ring to it.

[Q-baby!]

20 minutes ago, Foxx said:

honest question... which do you think is a bigger conspiracy the one fostered by the MSM, that being Russian Collusion or whatever conspiracy it is you are deeming the President to be pushing? after two years of zero evidence of the Russian Collusion  by Trumpand even greater evidence of Democrat collusion, i am curious about this echo chamber you constantly refer to but seem to be oblivious of.

 

so... your saying this is a sock puppet account. they have a word for that, it is called coward.

It’s a dirty sock too! 

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, Uncle Joe said:

 

Has a nicer ring to it.

Awwww and I was trying to be so "hip" to the new terms too. {posting fail}

[ExiledInIllinois]

7 minutes ago, Foxx said:

honest question... which do you think is a bigger conspiracy the one fostered by the MSM, that being Russian Collusion or whatever conspiracy it is you are deeming the President to be pushing? after two years of zero evidence of the Russian Collusion  by Trumpand even greater evidence of Democrat collusion, i am curious about this echo chamber you constantly refer to but seem to be oblivious of.

The echo chamber is this board.

 

The biggest conspiracy is not doing what the law specifically empowers, scandal, corruption, currying favor for personal & family gain... Oligarchs, business and public interest intermingled.  This is the ethical threat we face as a nation.

 

The country is facing an ethical conspiracy.  Public sector should not be run like the private sector. We are not to be run like a Russian Oligarch.

[Uncle Joe]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Awwww and I was trying to be so "hip" to the new terms too. {posting fail}

 

Old school here...

[Foxx]

5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

The echo chamber is this board.

 

The biggest conspiracy is not doing what the law specifically empowers, scandal, corruption, currying favor for personal & family gain... Oligarchs, business and public interest intermingled.  This is the ethical threat we face as a nation.

 

The country is facing an ethical conspiracy.  Public sector should not be run like the private sector. We are not to be run like a Russian Oligarch.

my question appears to have flown right over your head. let me try in more explicit terms.

 

which is the bigger conspiracy, the one fostered by the MSM, that being Russian Collusion or whatever conspiracy it is you are deeming the President to be pushing? after two years of zero evidence of the Russian Collusion  by Trump and even greater evidence of Democrat collusion, i am curious about this echo chamber you constantly refer to but seem to be oblivious of.

 

further to your reply, could you please enlighten me as to when the last time the public sector has been punitively punished by the justice department for this corruption, you apparently think is confined to the Trump Administration?

 

the echo chamber i refer to is the one you reside in. it really does not appear that you have much objectivity at all. you have been brian washed by the MSM and seem to be totally oblivious to that fact.

 

they are all corrupt. by estimation, it is all by design. designed to keep you pitted against them (them not referring to the elite but rather your other plebs around you).

[plenzmd1]

1 hour ago, B-Man said:

 

 

thats funny, cause taken at face value this meme states that the other side( the GOP) is so bad..the morally corrupt  Dems are still the lesser of two evils. 

 

The 2016 election truly was a Hobsons Choice for many of us...two despicable human beings ...damn, one would think we could do better as a country!

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

10 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

thats funny, cause taken at face value this meme states that the other side( the GOP) is so bad..the morally corrupt  Dems are still the lesser of two evils. 

 

The 2016 election truly was a Hobsons Choice for many of us...two despicable human beings ...damn, one would think we could do better as a country!

 

 

But... Morally corrupt people are also pulling the voting lever.

 

People pull for their own self-interest.  NOT what's best for the group, for all.

 

Look... It's Christmas Eve.  We have become Pottersville.

Edited December 24, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[DC Tom]

30 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

But... Morally corrupt people are also pulling the voting lever.

 

People pull for their own self-interest.  NOT what's best for the group, for all.

 

 

No, people don't pull for their own self-interest.  Rich liberals frequently vote for higher taxes, poor conservatives frequently vote to cut Medicaid and SNAP.  

 

People pull for their own self-identity.  That's very often counter to their self-interest.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

The echo chamber is this board.

 

The biggest conspiracy is not doing what the law specifically empowers, scandal, corruption, currying favor for personal & family gain... Oligarchs, business and public interest intermingled.  This is the ethical threat we face as a nation.

 

The country is facing an ethical conspiracy.  Public sector should not be run like the private sector. We are not to be run like a Russian Oligarch.

This is the amazing part to me, a revelation on how you see the world. If you see hrc as the bomb-diggity, above reproach, a humble public servant looking only to serve, I can understand that. There was a time I thought OJ Simpson was an amazing guy. There are likely still people out there who think that, and in some crazy real life version of The Matrix, we all process what we see/hear/experience through our own prism.

 

But, with due respect, the government represents a corporate structure the likes of which the the most power hungry oligarch could only dream of. 

 

Unlimited resources.

 

The power to create regulations that are both self-sustaining and lead to growth. 

 

A benefit structure designed by itself, that answers to no one but itself, with the power to increase benefits as it sees fit.

 

The power to seize assets, fine individuals and corporations, the right of eminent domain, and the power to imprison those it disagrees with. 

 

The power to creare currency, and to manipulate it as they see fit. 

 

The offer of virtually cradle to grave entitlements for those in the inner circle. 

 

The ultimate franchise fee-- the ability to tax.  

 

The power to design and fund it's own security force.

 

And so on. Government is necessary, important, and decent in many ways.  However, IBM, General Electric and Colonel $#@@ing Sanders would kill to possess 1/1000th of the power of the govt. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

To which folks like me would reply why is the President willing to take less than $5B if it is so critical to the safety of the US? 

 

This is a pure political fight..has nothing to so with a wall or safety of the US..$3B ain't building even a 10th of the wall.

 

Call a spade a spade and blame both parties.

The idea is you have that much money to start building the wall and accumulate additional funds in the future to continue to build the wall or whatever barrier they come up with.  It's not that different from the Secure Fence Act of 2006 when illegal immigration was at its peak.

[plenzmd1]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

The idea is you have that much money to start building the wall and accumulate additional funds in the future to continue to build the wall or whatever barrier they come up with.  It's not that different from the Secure Fence Act of 2006 when illegal immigration was at its peak.

I don't agree here Doc..I don't think Trump really cares whether he gets any funding for the wall or not..that was, to me, obvious when he first said he would agree to the original funding that did not include funding then abruptly changed course when his base and biggest supporters went bat chit crazy on him as haven given in to the Dems.

 

Why can he not have the military fund/build the wall as he claimed earlier in the week? If he really believed the wall was critical to the safety of the nation, would he not be pursuing all avenues?  Would he not be looking to fund the whole stinking thing? He is not cause he just wants to recharge his base and claim victory...

 

Again, its the same for the Dems. Not about whether a wall is a good option or not, it is just about denying Trump said victory.

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said:

I don't agree here Doc..I don't think Trump really cares whether he gets any funding for the wall or not..that was, to me, obvious when he first said he would agree to the original funding that did not include funding then abruptly changed course when his base and biggest supporters went bat chit crazy on him as haven given in to the Dems.

 

Why can he not have the military fund/build the wall as he claimed earlier in the week? If he really believed the wall was critical to the safety of the nation, would he not be pursuing all avenues?  Would he not be looking to fund the whole stinking thing? He is not cause he just wants to recharge his base and claim victory...

 

Again, its the same for the Dems. Not about whether a wall is a good option or not, it is just about denying Trump said victory.

 

 

 

The error your making in your analysis (imo) is believing the spin of the media on his reversal of course. The media has been pushing baseless speculation as fact for so long now it's hard to discern the difference. The truth is trump had already secured funding for large swaths of the wall through the military budget (which was/is secured) and he was negotiating with the congress. 

 

The wall matters greatly to Trump - at least on a political level. He ran on it because he knows how important it is to his election chances. Same with pulling out of Syria (which he ran on, and tried to do earlier before a "gas" attack stymied those plans). 

 

The reality is a wall is needed in certain areas, it would greatly reduce trafficking of all kinds - including people who wish to come here to do us harm. I say this not from a political perspective, but a pragmatic one. I never cared about a wall until I learned more from people on the ground in San Diego and Texas who deal with this every day. 

 

So while it may be just politics to Trump (which it may be), it's also needed and thus worth the fight.  It's decisively MORE political for the democrats in their opposition to the wall. Their own positions on a need for a solution just a few years ago makes this clear. The DNC knows Trump ran on the wall, and won on the wall, so giving it to him would be detrimental to their election chances in 2020. It's purely politics for the opposition. They don't want to give Trump a win - even at the expense of the nation's security. 

 

One side rings hollow here, and it's not the Orange Man.