The Trump Shutdown

[reddogblitz]

I have a novel idea.  

 

The next Congress should work on legislation so they don't have to go back to the prez every 6 months with hat in hand asking for more money.  Now we know it can and will be used by Trump as bargaining chip.  Future presidents will do the same.

 

Unless they just like it the way it is ...

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

I have a novel idea.  

 

The next Congress should work on legislation so they don't have to go back to the prez every 6 months with hat in hand asking for more money.  Now we know it can and will be used by Trump as bargaining chip.  Future presidents will do the same.

 

Unless they just like it the way it is ...

 

They like it the way it is.  Because they've ceased to be legislators.  They're party activists, roiling the base for the next round of elections.

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

This whole thing is highly amusing to me.  Trump wants to nuke the filibuster in the Senate just for a small portion of wall funded not too concerned about the long term consequences.  He changes his mind at the last second as Senators already went home since he agreed with McConnel before the Senate passed the CR deal earlier in the week.   

 

Democrats are fine with ground censors, radar, and increased border security personnel but a wall is racist.  Outgoing congressional Republicans who wouldn't have voted for the spending bill voted for it knowing it won't pass to stick it to Pelosi.  Competing gofundme accounts raising money for the wall (may have a problem with private property there) on one side and ladders to get over the nonexistent wall on the other is actually getting a lot of money.  I fully expect a food fight in the US Capitol building cafeteria at the end of all of this.

 

But Democrats aren't in favor of those border security items except for maybe a very few in the house and senate.  They might like more security personnel because then they can turn them into immigration processing agents as Obama did.  Devices of any kind or any actual commitment to better securing us they'll never support. 

Trump on the other hand should be using this budget deadline/ceiling to address reductions in spending. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by keepthefaith

[TakeYouToTasker]

36 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

I have a novel idea.  

 

The next Congress should work on legislation so they don't have to go back to the prez every 6 months with hat in hand asking for more money.  Now we know it can and will be used by Trump as bargaining chip.  Future presidents will do the same.

 

Unless they just like it the way it is ...

 

As Tom said, this is the system they want.

 

It keeps them from having to legislate, and run on their records.

 

They instead get to be a hall of firebrand activists with an absurd incumbency rate which protects their fiefdoms.

Edited December 21, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[Buffalo_Gal]

We shall see...


Senator Bob Corker (R-TN) said Friday that Senate leaders have an "agreement" in place for a House-passed stopgap measure to avert a government shutdown which includes funding for President Trump's border wall. 

[boyst]

I'd rather have "bump stocks" than a border wall. 

[Azalin]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

We shall see...


Senator Bob Corker (R-TN) said Friday that Senate leaders have an "agreement" in place for a House-passed stopgap measure to avert a government shutdown which includes funding for President Trump's border wall. 

 

I may be wrong, but I just don't see it happening. I believe that the Democrats and the never-Trump Republicans will sink anything that gives Trump any kind of victory on the border wall. Trump could offer up DACA, total amnesty for all illegal immigrants, and a reinstatement of Obamacare and they'd still refuse. They're going to try to make Trump appear as villainous as possible by shutting down the government over Christmas. They have most of the news outlets on their side, and going to do everything they can to continue to ramp up the manufactured outrage and fan the TDS flames.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

[Buffalo_Gal]

38 minutes ago, Azalin said:

 

I may be wrong, but I just don't see it happening. I believe that the Democrats and the never-Trump Republicans will sink anything that gives Trump any kind of victory on the border wall. Trump could offer up DACA, total amnesty for all illegal immigrants, and a reinstatement of Obamacare and they'd still refuse. They're going to try to make Trump appear as villainous as possible by shutting down the government over Christmas. They have most of the news outlets on their side, and going to do everything they can to continue to ramp up the manufactured outrage and fan the TDS flames.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

I too think they will try and make him appear as villainous as possible. Will they succeed though? That is the question. 'And don't discount the fact that 220K people have donated to that Trump wall gofundme in the last 4 days. That is a poll, and a paid poll by the participants no less. Congressional staff will notice, as they will be paying close attention to internal polling on the matter. 

The MSM and the Ds will blame Trump. Who the American public will blame? No one knows at this point.

[Doc Brown]

55 minutes ago, Azalin said:

 

I may be wrong, but I just don't see it happening. I believe that the Democrats and the never-Trump Republicans will sink anything that gives Trump any kind of victory on the border wall. Trump could offer up DACA, total amnesty for all illegal immigrants, and a reinstatement of Obamacare and they'd still refuse. They're going to try to make Trump appear as villainous as possible by shutting down the government over Christmas. They have most of the news outlets on their side, and going to do everything they can to continue to ramp up the manufactured outrage and fan the TDS flames.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Probably.  If Jeb Bush was president and requested 5 billion for a border wall I don't think there'd be much hesitation considering they voted for the Secure Fence Act 80-12 in the Senate in '06.  It's just that this was Trump's main campaign issue, the chant at his rallies, and the symbol of his and his supporters xenophobia (in their minds).

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, Azalin said:

 

I may be wrong, but I just don't see it happening. I believe that the Democrats and the never-Trump Republicans will sink anything that gives Trump any kind of victory on the border wall. Trump could offer up DACA, total amnesty for all illegal immigrants, and a reinstatement of Obamacare and they'd still refuse. They're going to try to make Trump appear as villainous as possible by shutting down the government over Christmas. They have most of the news outlets on their side, and going to do everything they can to continue to ramp up the manufactured outrage and fan the TDS flames.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

 

Y'know...as much as the news media is in their pocket, they could just as easily fund the border wall, keep the government running...and ask the media to report the government is shut down, and no one would be any wiser.

[B-Man]

The Schumer Shutdown.

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Swill Merchant]

9 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

This whole thing is highly amusing to me.  Trump wants to nuke the filibuster in the Senate just for a small portion of wall funded not too concerned about the long term consequences.  He changes his mind at the last second as Senators already went home since he agreed with McConnel before the Senate passed the CR deal earlier in the week.   

 

Democrats are fine with ground censors, radar, and increased border security personnel but a wall is racist.  Outgoing congressional Republicans who wouldn't have voted for the spending bill voted for it knowing it won't pass to stick it to Pelosi.  Competing gofundme accounts raising money for the wall (may have a problem with private property there) on one side and ladders to get over the nonexistent wall on the other is actually getting a lot of money.  I fully expect a food fight in the US Capitol building cafeteria at the end of all of this.

"The wall is racist" may be the dumbest stance I've ever seen either party take on an issue. It's an indefensible position that no one, including those saying it, actually believes, and it leaves the true intent behind the opposition naked for all to see.

 

The only policy logically consistent with that position is open borders. The Democrats have now taken the mantle of the open borders party, and they've assumed ownership of the shutdown.

 

Unless, of course, they can sell the story that the people who want to allocate trillions of dollars to open ended projects suddenly draw the line at a one time $5b expenditure. But no one's buying that one.

[Azalin]

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

The MSM and the Ds will blame Trump. Who the American public will blame? No one knows at this point.

 

 

The American people will fall into alignment with whichever side they already support. I don't see this as a struggle between two parties trying to win the hearts & minds of Americans, rather it's a gaggle of political whores trying to force the wind to blow in one direction or the other. People who support Trump will continue to do so, those who oppose him will do likewise. I don't think voters' minds will be swayed either way by any of this.

 

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Probably.  If Jeb Bush was president and requested 5 billion for a border wall I don't think there'd be much hesitation considering they voted for the Secure Fence Act 80-12 in the Senate in '06.  It's just that this was Trump's main campaign issue, the chant at his rallies, and the symbol of his and his supporters xenophobia (in their minds).

 

Absolutely. I agree completely.

 

[Doc Brown]

47 minutes ago, Swill Merchant said:

"The wall is racist" may be the dumbest stance I've ever seen either party take on an issue. It's an indefensible position that no one, including those saying it, actually believes, and it leaves the true intent behind the opposition naked for all to see.

 

The only policy logically consistent with that position is open borders. The Democrats have now taken the mantle of the open borders party, and they've assumed ownership of the shutdown.

 

Unless, of course, they can sell the story that the people who want to allocate trillions of dollars to open ended projects suddenly draw the line at a one time $5b expenditure. But no one's buying that one.

They're changing their tune to, "We're for border security, but there are more cost efficient and effective ways to accomplish that than an antiquated wall solution."  Your average person may buy that because most people don't pay close attention to politics.  I don't think this changes anything support wise because Independents made their mind up about Trump a long time ago.

3 hours ago, B-Man said:

The Schumer Shutdown.

 

 

 

Not a Schumer fan, but that's an inaccurate meme.

 

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2018/dec/20/blog-posting/meme-mischaracterizes-chuck-schumers-record-border/

 

It’s possible the creator of the post was thinking of a 2013 proposal that Schumer shepherded through the Senate. But characterizing the 2013 legislation as a $25 billion deal to fund a "border wall" runs into factual hurdles.

 

That proposal, a comprehensive immigration plan Schumer sponsored and voted for, cleared the Senate in 2013. But the Republican-controlled House did not take up that bill after that. (It’s worth noting that presidents, not lawmakers, as the meme suggests, sign bills into law.)

The package included more than $46 billion for border security. The vast majority of that money ($30 billion) was for hiring more U.S. Border Patrol agents along the southern border. Around $8 billion would have gone toward building or repairing 700 miles of fencing (including some double-layer fencing) along the U.S.-Mexico border.

 

That’s not $25 billion for a wall, as the meme claimed.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Doc Brown

[plenzmd1]

I think most of us see this as a political pissing match. Pox on both their houses. 

 

What i dont understand is Trumps position here. As I mentioned upthread,  if you are going to make a stand, why not make it a stand to fund the wall fully. Lowest estimate I have seen is $18B. That would be about building a wall, not a stunt to to appease your base and Fox. 

 

My mesaage to Trump... its 1am, you told your wife you would be home at 11pm. Let her know you are fine, and stay out and enjoy another hour or two. In other words, make it worth pain that you are going to endure! 

 

I would reapect him more more if he took that position , as I think most folks would. 

 

 

 

 

[Foxx]

an AP article

 

Federal shutdown begins after lawmakers fail to reach deal

[Buffalo_Gal]

232K donators. Facebook closed down their Facebook page (but not his personal page --- yet) after the lefties kept reporting it.
 

 

[TH3]

6 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

They're changing their tune to, "We're for border security, but there are more cost efficient and effective ways to accomplish that than an antiquated wall solution."  Your average person may buy that because most people don't pay close attention to politics.  I don't think this changes anything support wise because Independents made their mind up about Trump a long time ago.

Not a Schumer fan, but that's an inaccurate meme.

 

https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2018/dec/20/blog-posting/meme-mischaracterizes-chuck-schumers-record-border/

 

It’s possible the creator of the post was thinking of a 2013 proposal that Schumer shepherded through the Senate. But characterizing the 2013 legislation as a $25 billion deal to fund a "border wall" runs into factual hurdles.

 

That proposal, a comprehensive immigration plan Schumer sponsored and voted for, cleared the Senate in 2013. But the Republican-controlled House did not take up that bill after that. (It’s worth noting that presidents, not lawmakers, as the meme suggests, sign bills into law.)

The package included more than $46 billion for border security. The vast majority of that money ($30 billion) was for hiring more U.S. Border Patrol agents along the southern border. Around $8 billion would have gone toward building or repairing 700 miles of fencing (including some double-layer fencing) along the U.S.-Mexico border.

 

That’s not $25 billion for a wall, as the meme claimed.

NOOOOOOOO....its a  meme.....it has to be correct because it says what I want to believe!!!

29 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

232K donators. Facebook closed down their Facebook page (but not his personal page --- yet) after the lefties kept reporting it.
 

 

Seriously - memes are not research - page got shut down because the originator had started several conspiracy based pages that were BS

 

How much money did you give him? Put your money where your mouth is!! 

[plenzmd1]

^^^^^

 

where are the funds for the wall rasied above going?

 

I assume there is some minimum that needs to be raised? Like $10B or something?

 

i

[Buffalo_Gal]

28 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

^^^^^

 

where are the funds for the wall rasied above going?

 

I assume there is some minimum that needs to be raised? Like $10B or something?

 

i

Gofundme has a $1B limit. I have my doubts it will ever be obtained. That isn't what the politicians are looking at, however. They are focusing on how many people are donating. A donation is a "vote" for wall funding.  As of now, 235K people (in 5 days, with little publicity) have decided to express their support for the wall via a direct donation.

As far as where the fund are going... there is a precedent for direct funds being directed toward a specific purpose, and that money being used for that purpose (David Rubenstein and the Washington Monument elevator is the latest example (2016)). The claim here is they are working with the administration (and attorneys) to get the money to be used directly for a  wall. 

*******

 

51 minutes ago, TH3 said:

NOOOOOOOO....its a  meme.....it has to be correct because it says what I want to believe!!!

Seriously - memes are not research - page got shut down because the originator had started several conspiracy based pages that were BS

 

How much money did you give him? Put your money where your mouth is!! 

Yup, building the wall is a real conspiracy movement. / insert sarc tag

$1K.