oldmanfan Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: This is factually incorrect. Congress does not need POTUS to pass a budget at all. So, there are more than one person who has the authority to reopen the government. Making this position you're taking incorrect. Congressn passes budgetary bills but the president has to sign off, correct? 8 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: That's not what he said but you know that. It was pointed out to you earlier in this thread but you continue to use wording that is not precise. He said he'd take the blame for a shutdown, not that he would be proud to shut the government down. You're correct. So he needs to take the blame. Because he said he would.
boyst Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Congressn passes budgetary bills but the president has to sign off, correct? You're correct. So he needs to take the blame. Because he said he would. Incorrect. Override of veto. Words matter. Get your facts straight. Words matter. Do better. Words matter.
oldmanfan Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Incorrect. Override of veto. Words matter. Get your facts straight. Words matter. Do better. Words matter. Correct. The president can veto bills. We all understand that.
DC Tom Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Correct. The president can veto bills. We all understand that. Congress can override vetos. 1
oldmanfan Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: Congress can override vetos. Yes they can. The Senate should vote today, pass the bill the House sent them that the Senateapprovrd overwhelmingly in December and send it to the president. If he vetoes then decide to override or not.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Congressn passes budgetary bills but the president has to sign off, correct? Incorrect. They can pass a budget without needing the president to sign off on it. That's why I'm pointing out your premise is flawed. Yes, Trump said he'd own the shutdown six weeks ago. And while he bares a great deal of the responsibility for it, a lot has changed in those six weeks to alter that equation. Pretending nothing has changed is being disingenuous. Edited January 23, 2019 by Deranged Rhino
3rdnlng Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Yes, let's get involved with vetoes and overrides over a continuing resolution for 3 weeks.
boyst Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 58 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Correct. The president can veto bills. We all understand that. K Congress can override those vetoes. Yes? 47 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Yes they can. The Senate should vote today, pass the bill the House sent them that the Senateapprovrd overwhelmingly in December and send it to the president. If he vetoes then decide to override or not. K. So this analysis shows that it is not just the president that can undo the shutdown, right?
row_33 Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 43 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Yes, let's get involved with vetoes and overrides over a continuing resolution for 3 weeks. i hope people who want to argue about this at least take the time to learn the roles of each body most of them think the Constitution can change if enough people get upset in the last two minutes
3rdnlng Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 34 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Incorrect. They can pass a budget without needing the president to sign off on it. That's why I'm pointing out your premise is flawed. Yes, Trump said he'd own the shutdown six weeks ago. And while he bares a great deal of the responsibility for it, a lot has changed in those six weeks to alter that equation. Pretending nothing has changed is being disingenuous. Trump certainly bears a good deal of the responsibility for the shutdown, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The shutdown is giving us a new focus on border security including the wall. That's a good thing. 2
Kevbeau Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: Looks like IRS won't be processing tax refunds. Give me my stupid useless wall or tax payers can't have their money! I’m sure they’ll be processing payments however. Door definitely doesn’t go both ways with the IRS.
B-Man Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Kevbeau said: I’m sure they’ll be processing payments however. Door definitely doesn’t go both ways with the IRS. Actually, Gator deliberately left out a few words to try and make a point. 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: Looks like IRS won't be processing tax refunds. Give me my stupid useless wall or tax payers can't have their money! https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/426532-union-says-irs-worker-absences-expected-to-surge-amid-shutdown IRS offices across the country are reportedly experiencing a spike in absences as part of the protest. The IRS is headed into its busiest time of the year, raising the possibility that millions of Americans will receive their tax refunds later than usual.
DC Tom Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: Looks like IRS won't be processing tax refunds. Give me my stupid useless wall or tax payers can't have their money! I'm old enough to remember when money was the government's, not the tax payers'. Seems like it was just a couple years ago... 1 1 1
KRC Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, DC Tom said: I'm old enough to remember when money was the government's, not the tax payers'. Seems like it was just a couple years ago... Damn taxpayers actually thinking that the money is theirs. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!1! Or, you can just set your withholdings such that you owe a little each year, instead of getting a refund. That may be too complicated for some, who would just prefer to give the government a zero-percent interest loan. 1
keepthefaith Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Only Democrat taxpayers will have their tax refunds held. Payback's a biatch ain't it?
row_33 Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, KRC said: Damn taxpayers actually thinking that the money is theirs. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!1! Or, you can just set your withholdings such that you owe a little each year, instead of getting a refund. That may be too complicated for some, who would just prefer to give the government a zero-percent interest loan. The US allows an established $200,000 income earner to refuse to make suitable interim payments from deduction or installments? Edited January 23, 2019 by row_33
snafu Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: So they should have put the bill in front of him, then not have him sign? I could go along with that. In fact that is exactly what should happen if the Congress was doing its job. The House sent the same bill that the Senate approved a month ago. The Senate should vote on it, pass it (unless they are so spineless that they change their votes within a month), put it on the President's desk. If he vetoes then the Congress can decide if they override the veto and put people back to work. That is how our government is supposed to work. But, again, Trump is the only one right now who can reopen government. If he indicates he'd sign that then it's over with today. But, no, he's proud to shut it down. Because there are 800,000 people not being paid, and because it is affecting our national security. Open it, and if the Dems refuse to negotiate in good faith then you have a ready made political hammer to use. I just said above there is room to blame for both sides. Try reading. "But, again, Trump is the only one right now who can reopen government." Trump did say what he said. You're right about that. How would you like him to FULLY re-open the government (it is partially shut down now)? Should it be like the opening ceremonies of the Olympics? Should he get hold of the world's biggest megaphone and broadcast it to the sky? Hire a marching band to carry a giant banner through the streets of D.C.? If, like Trump, YOU were the only one who could re-open the government, how would you do it? How would you pay for it, since you have no power of the purse? The fact that you said "I just said above there is room to blame for both sides" completely contradicts your original point. Actually, you're right about "there is room to blame for both sides", but you chose to only focus on the President. 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Her position is that if you do that then you are basically saying that any Chief Executive should just shut down government if he or she doesn't get their at on a budgetary issue. I agree with her on that. It would be a horrible precedent. And she doesn't have sole power, as it would depend on the House and Senate agreeing with that bill. Unlike the President, who has sole power. Nice try though. Then what Congress should do -- if they were so outraged -- is pass a bill that is veto-proof. See, checks and balances.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 It's a move right out of the Cuban missile crisis: ignore the second letter, accept the first. 3 1
oldmanfan Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, snafu said: "But, again, Trump is the only one right now who can reopen government." Trump did say what he said. You're right about that. How would you like him to FULLY re-open the government (it is partially shut down now)? Should it be like the opening ceremonies of the Olympics? Should he get hold of the world's biggest megaphone and broadcast it to the sky? Hire a marching band to carry a giant banner through the streets of D.C.? If, like Trump, YOU were the only one who could re-open the government, how would you do it? How would you pay for it, since you have no power of the purse? The fact that you said "I just said above there is room to blame for both sides" completely contradicts your original point. Actually, you're right about "there is room to blame for both sides", but you chose to only focus on the President. Then what Congress should do -- if they were so outraged -- is pass a bill that is veto-proof. See, checks and balances. How would I do it? Simple. Tell the Senate majority leader to allow the House bill (the one the Senate approved in December) to come to a vote and pass. Then sign it. Then negotiate. is there blame on both sides? Yes, Pelosi should not have said no money at all for a wall. But that does not put her in charge , or blame, or whatever, of the shut down. The president said it would be on him. He was right.
3rdnlng Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: How would I do it? Simple. Tell the Senate majority leader to allow the House bill (the one the Senate approved in December) to come to a vote and pass. Then sign it. Then negotiate. is there blame on both sides? Yes, Pelosi should not have said no money at all for a wall. But that does not put her in charge , or blame, or whatever, of the shut down. The president said it would be on him. He was right. Except Speaker Nancy is on record that there will be no negotiating on the wall. In other words she will not allow any funding for a wall. So, you expect Trump to give up any leverage he might have to get another continuing resolution that just pushes the issue down the road? We've pushed this issue down the road for decades because the dems don't want to settle the DACA issue because they need it for political purposes.
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